Help Identifying Model T

[Jwidd43]

Have what I was told a 1914 Model T. Don’t know much about it besides it was passed down from great grandfather who was a racer.  Have done some research and found the serial number on the engine to be from 1922-1923 I believe. Was just looking for some help to determine exactly what I have. Thank you 

[keiser31]

Looks like a 1914. maybe the original engine was replaced.

 

[mercer09]

MAYBE A MIXED BUNCH OF PARTS styled after an early brass car.

[Jwidd43]

Any idea of value on something like this?

[1937hd45]

We need far more detail photos, are the running board brackets forged or stamped steel. Most speedsters are suspect. Bob 

[Jwidd43]

[Jwidd43]

[mercer09]

need to know years on parts. if a mixed bag, then value isnt very high.

 

just the newer motor takes much value out.

[JFranklin]

With all the accessories on it I should bring good money for a speedster. Do you have any photos of the engine?

[Jwidd43]

[C Carl]

Well, here's an important question : How well does it run  ?  And for you T-model experts : Could you please give us some information  about the Waukesha Ricardo Head. Curious. Thanks,    -   Carl 

[Jwidd43]

Car runs and drives. Sure it could use a tune up and some love but we drive it around town during the summers. 

[Trulyvintage]

Post a thread over on the MTFCA General Discussion Forum

 

Looks like you have a Model T Speedster.

 

@ https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=2

 

 

Jim

[C Carl]

Just call me a sentimental old fool, but after 4 generations in the family, I myself would not be able to part with it. Lovable toy !   -   Carl 

[1937hd45]

The problem with T speedsters in dating them, and the accessories on them. The car looks like a fun driver, at a quick glance you could call it a 1914, but look at every part on the car, engine and wheels are 1919 at the oldest. Ruxtell rear is a great feature but dates to the early 1920's, Recardo head cane out in the 1920's also. . Prices are all over the place on Speedsters. 

 

Bob 

Edited December 15, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[mercer09]

it has some nice components, but in the end, is pieced together, so not for a purist.

 

however there is still a market, just dont expect to buy a new house with the proceeds.

[Jwidd43]

Would be fun to keep car in family since it’s been passed down for generations but I feel like I need to find someone who will appreciate for what it is. We enjoy driving the car a couple times a year but in the end it just collects dust in the garage. Was going to try and get $7,000 - $8,000 for it but it’s hard to value it with what I have found on the internet and my lack of knowledge on it. 

Thanks Jon 

[JFranklin]

Grandpa was a racer and your speedster looks just like I would expect, and ready to race! Ricardo head was a racing head, finned valve cover, shocks, spark and throttle extensions, it all fits nicely. Most speedsters in the era were made up of  other year or junk yard parts, Some kids just junked the bodies and added enough to sit on and keep the dust off. You have a nice car.

Edited December 15, 2019 by JFranklin (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Re the Waukesha head. The Ricardo combustion chamber was the invention of an English engineer named Harry Ricardo.It was introduced about 1921 or 1922. The first cylinder head with squish or quench. This allowed higher compression, greater efficiency and made the flathead type engine competitive with OHV engines. The Waukesha company held the American license for making aftermarket Ricardo heads, they made them for many makes of cars, trucks and tractors including Ford, Essex,  Studebaker, Lycoming, and many others.

 

In other words it was an early piece of hop up equipment that could be applied to stock or modified engines.

 

More detail of the Waukesha - Ricardo head and how it worked https://www.wehs.net/dyk-ricardo.html

[46 woodie]

Unfortunately Model T Fords don't bring much money any longer. The Ricardo Head was an aftermarket product, that in reality, didn't do too much in a performance upgrade for the Model T. In all of the car related books, fully restored Model T's range from about $8000 to $12,000. Your car, being a "Speedster", built with a conglomeration of parts and the condition it's in, limits your market. If it's your grandfathers car, why not just keep it and make it safe and reliable and fix it up as required? Someday you might regret selling it.

[C Carl]

Thanks for the interesting Waukesha info, Rusty'. Hey Jon, I am just an old Cadillac guy, and sadly have never filled out the T-model drivers check on the bucket list yet. That said, I think your li'l red speedster is a good deal on a fine package of fun for that kind of money. Though I have taken Mother Nature and Father Time's lesson, and made the "No more cars" pledge, man, I think I could break my vow if I really do cash out my house soon. Thanks for giving us AACA folk first opportunity for it. All : is this basically an upgraded, legitimate pre-'16 T ? Therefore it would be full HCCA eligible, and with the Ruxtell, and the Waukesha head should tour well, right ?

 

Jon, I'll bet someone here would like to know where you are located. You just don't know. Someone slipping, stumbling and falling in love with your car could be within a fun week(end ?) leisurely drive home from you. Oh to set the hands of time back 10 years ! The wire transfer would be made tomorrow morning. Sigh..........................     -    Carl 

[Gunsmoke]

Most T owners/fans around here would likely have more enjoyment and car show interest from this interesting speedster than their original black touring cars of this era. Would be interesting to know just when it was put together, possibly mid-late 1920's, a nearly 100 year old project of someones? Nice thing about this car is you could buy it and not change a thing, just keep it in tune. As many on here know, it is the re-build/restoration costs that usually make old cars so expensive to own.

[wayne sheldon]

Model T speedsters are a lot of fun for the money! Good ones can handle modern speeds, and keep up with traffic on freeways.

Alongside my factory type antiques, I always like to have a model T speedster. Currently between them, I have restored six of them over the years. Now I NEED to get my '15 T runabout done before another speedster comes back.

For myself, I am very picky, wanting my speedster to be restored to something resembling "era correct", with proper accessories to fit the year of the car. Most model T speedster people are not so fussy about that. This car would not meet my needs without a lot of era corrections. But most model T speedster people would be fine with it.

As for the HCCA. While I do not officially speak for them, basically, this car as is would not qualify. While they are not as strict as some members (including me) would really like, they accept certain realities of an aging hobby. Rules are fairly strict on a somewhat era correct car, however, some of those rules are not strictly enforced. Many model Ts (non-speedsters included) do tour with Ruckstell rear ends (which were not available until the 1920s). The car must have a nearly correct engine within a narrow year range of the age of the car. And the engine must have been manufactured before January of 1916. Judging by the size and shape of the serial number boss, what I believe is the round date coding for the casting date (assuming it is not a Canadian engine which used the round date code for more years), and the generator block-off casting, I would guess that the engine dates from 1919 to 1921. IF the serial number is a Ford factory stamped number, it could  date the engine to a given date. Regardless, that engine will not qualify under HCCA rules (although local regional groups have more leeway to allow such things if they wish to). And one can join the national HCCA without a qualifying car, so for local events, it could be used anyway.

 

Fun car anyway! Someone should be enjoying that thing! I also think that if it has been in the family that long? Someone should want to keep it and use it in the family. But that is your family's decision to make, not mine.

[mercer09]

THE PRICE YOU ARE CONSIDERING IS RIGHT ON. 7-8k is about right.

 

parted out it is worth that.

 

If you are determined to sell it, put together your ads, ebay Craigslist or wherever. Just understand that you arent selling to a purist, who might offer you 3k.

 

[Paul Dobbin]

You are in the right price range for a fun driver (Composite Car)   Don't wait until it won;t run to try to sell it.  As a running car, it should sell for your $7,000 to $8,000, when it no longer runs, $4,000 IMHO.

Interesting but not real valuable.

[Terry Bond]

If the serial number on the engine is correct, it was built sometime in later October 1914, making it a correct 1914 engine.  There also will be a casting date on that block just to the right of the engine number boss.  A photo of that would be helpful too.   The number could have been restamped however as NOS engine blocks were readily available for a long time, even after production ceased.  It is possible an older # could have been stamped onto a new block.  With some work it would be a neat speedster.

Terry

[1937hd45]

Terry, I think it is a restamped number the block is set up for a generator, looks like an aluminum transmission cover and lettered pedals. Bob 

[Terry Bond]

I see the generator block off plate.  The pedals with ribs came out in 15, prior to that they were lettered, so that and the aluminum hogs head indicates it began as a 1914 and probably had a later block restamped with the 1914#.  I've seen that done before.  

 

Time to go clean some of my Hershey spark plug finds.  Good winter project.

Terry

[C Carl]

Anyone hear anything from Jon ? I don't think he has been 'round these parts in a week or so. Anyone know where he and his T are located ? Merry Christmas, Jon, wherever you are !     -    Carl 

[Jwidd43]

Sorry I have been busy with holiday shopping and family in town. Thank you all for your input on the car I currently have it for sale locally wish me luck thanks. 

[C Carl]

And where is locally  ? One or more of us might live close by. I guess you might say you never know until you know. 

Thank you,    -   Carl 

[Jwidd43]

Johnstown, CO

- Jon

[oldcarfudd]

There's a past president of HCCA who doesn't think speedsters like this should be allowed on HCCA tours.  The current HCCA national secretary, who will probably rotate up to president in a couple of years, has a bitsa Model T like this one that he has driven on HCCA tours.  Judging no-nos like auxiliary transmissions, extra brakes, distributor ignitions, demountable rims, starters, extra wishbones, later engines, and all sorts of stuff that Henry never put on a brass-era T appear on a lot of Ts on HCCA tours.  Too many of those things on a particular Model T lower its money value; they don't lower (and may enhance) its fun value.  Bring the car on an HCCA tour; no one will throw you out.  And any Model T club tour will welcome it.