34 Dodge rear inner seals

[knobless]

The seller told me the rear seals were leaking upon purchase, remove outer seals used hub puller, are the axle tapered on rear? Anyone have a good picture before taking it back apart ,of the inner seals and who stocks them, I would imagine the puller is needed again to pull axles,,,

Thanks Model DR 4 dr.

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by knobless (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

If they are anything like those on my 32 DL, you take off the hub, then remove the outer seal.  You can use an axle puller, but I just put the hub back on loosely and put the axle nut back.  This gave me enough room to slide the hub back against the bolt.  My axles came out fairly easily with this method, and it didn’t take a lot of banging to get the axle to move.  The outer bearing race will come out first, followed by the axle with two attached tapered roller bearings back to back, with a slight ridge on the axle  separating them.  This will leave the inner bearing race still in the axle housing with the inner seal behind it.  You use a three jaw bearing puller to remove the inner race - this process usually destroyes the inner seal - and then you can grab what’s left of the seal and remove it.  Then and Now Automotive had the correct inner seals when I rebuilt my rear End a few years ago.  They had outer seals, also, if I remember correctly.  There are shims on the back of the inner bearing race that determine axle play.  These are a real pain to figure out if you change the bearings.  You have to put everything together before you can determine the axle play.  If you’re wrong you would have to destroy your new inner seals taking things back apart to install the correct shims.  Have fun!

[ply33]

I am pleasantly surprised to hear that Then & Now Automotive (Antique Auto Parts Cellar) had your inner seals. I guess I didn't check them last time I was looking.

 

I think the '33 and '34 Plymouth are mechanically the same as the '33 and '34 Dodge. If so then Taylormade's description matches exactly.

 

Well almost exactly: Bearings are manufactured to very high tolerances so swapping the bearings should not make a difference on the shims. As I understand it, the factory selected the shims that gave the correct end play based on the manufacturing variation in the axle housing. So if you replace all the shims you find exactly as you find them you are very likely to have the correct end play. Of course you should check the end play: I could be wrong about being able to put them back exactly as found. Or some previous mechanic might have messed things up.

 

I decided that I did not want to trust a NOS or NORS leather outer seal when I had one leaking. Turns out that you can replace the seal in the carrier with a modern one. I documented that on my web site: https://www.ply33.com/Repair/axle_seal/

[Taylormade]

You’re exactly right about the shims, ply33, but when I took my axle, apart I discovered that the shims had been removed at some point and had long disappeared.  Hence my quandary.

[keiser31]

2 minutes ago, Taylormade said:

You’re exactly right about the shims, ply33, but when I took my axle, apart I discovered that the shims had been removed at some point and had long disappeared.  Hence my quandary.

My '31 never had shims as far as I can tell.

[Taylormade]

Hmmm...maybe mine didn’t either.  The previous owner, Phil Kennedy (editor of the Dodge Brothers Club News) took the axle apart years ago and told me he didn’t find any shims at the time.  I just figured it had been monkeyed with somewhere in the past.

[keiser31]

Without gazing into my Master Parts List, I am guessing the shims started being used in 1933.

Edited December 15, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[ply33]

1 hour ago, keiser31 said:

Without gazing into my Master Parts List, I am guessing the shims started being used in 1933.

 

On Plymouth the parts book starts listing shims for the model 30-U which would be 1930. I don't have a parts book of that era for Dodge but since it seems that 1933 was the first year that Dodge and Plymouth really started sharing a bunch of mechanical features it could well be that it would be 1933 for Dodge.

[hwellens]

Here are the 1934  Rear End drawings  from the 34 - 36 Dodge Master Maintenance Manual:

 

 

[Gunsmoke]

I recently serviced the rear axles for my '31 Chrysler CD8, very similar if not identical setup as above. While outer seals, bearings and axle are a breeze to remove, inner race for bearings is not. It is a very tight fit, not helped by having had minor oxidation over years. I had a spare rear-end and decided to experiment with trying to remove the races and inner seal from that first. Due to the backing shims, closeness to the inner seal, and the very narrow edge to try to grab, it was virtually impossible to get the inner race out with any of the bearing pullers I could find. Since the spare rear-end housing was of no use to me, I cut it off completely just back of the inner race, and even then had a hell of a time tapping the bearing race out of the housing. There was minor oxidation/rust on the outer surface of the shell which may have made it seize on. In any event, having damaged the shims, inner seal etc, I recommend avoiding their removal at all.

 

I carefully checked the inner seals for the CD8 visually and they look OK, so I reassembled everything using proper grease etc. I put a differential vent in top of rear-end housing (opposite end from brake line bolt). My understanding from reading this site's experts is that most inner seal leakage is caused by pressure buildup in the housing during prolonged operation as the oil heats up. As can be noted, the oil level in the differential carrier is well below the level of the inner seal and as such oil in liquid form should not get out there except perhaps making sharp turns under speed or on severe cross slopes. So my suggestion: leave seals alone and first place a vent in housing (or one each end) and see if there is a further problem.  

[Henry Boler]

I've just come across this thread, I'm a little late to the conversation but I have just completely stripped down my rear axle on my '31 Dodge UF-10. I have literally only just removed the inner bearing race from the axle tube. The last bits I had left in the casting were the two bearing races and the oil seals. My new bearing puller arrived today, it is a three pronged puller that locks in behind the race and then pulls out with a slide hammer. Both bearings came out complete with two shims each absolutely perfectly leaving the oil seals untouched. I then drifted the two oil seals out from the inside of the housing (obviously this requires the differential to be removed) but they came out fairly easily too and nothing has any damage from removal at all.

 

Henry

[ArticiferTom]

With that slide hammer could it also remove the inner seals ?

[Henry Boler]

Just now, ArticiferTom said:

With that slide hammer could it also remove the inner seals ?

 

No, I did try very gently. It may remove them, but might ruin them at the same time so I opted to drive them out from the inside with a flat part that caused them no damage. They are in very good condition and I intend on reusing them!

[Manuel]

Do the old inner seals have any part numbers on them?

 

[knobless]

14 hours ago, Henry Boler said:

 

No, I did try very gently. It may remove them, but might ruin them at the same time so I opted to drive them out from the inside with a flat part that caused them no damage. They are in very good condition and I intend on reusing them!

Mine are leaking so I Asume reusing is not an option, talk to pat Walsh awhile back said he had them,  My plan is do both sides especially if they are a pain to do , rather do them now then one start leaking after, thanks for all the imput, I guess that 3 program puller is what I need who knows where to get one? Thanks again

[Henry Boler]

3 hours ago, knobless said:

Mine are leaking so I Asume reusing is not an option, talk to pat Walsh awhile back said he had them,  My plan is do both sides especially if they are a pain to do , rather do them now then one start leaking after, thanks for all the imput, I guess that 3 program puller is what I need who knows where to get one? Thanks again

I got my one on eBay last week! You should be able to find a similar set on the US eBay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283311881711

[Henry Boler]

11 hours ago, Manuel said:

Do the old inner seals have any part numbers on them?

 

 

No trace of any part numbers at all I'm afraid. Imagine it would have been difficult stamping or engraving them as the steel housing is quite thin.