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36/38 wheel interchange question


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  • 4 weeks later...

Mr. Earl,    Buick was not nice to folks like us.    Buick kept (?) the 16” rim size BUT THEY CHANGED THE ‘BOLT CIRCLE’.     The ‘38’  40 series has a 5” B.C.,  the 38-60 had a 5”  B.C.  and the 80 & 90 series had a 5-1/2”  B.C..       On my ‘35’ they had 3 different B.C.   The 40 series had a 5” B.C.,     the 50 series had a 5-1/2”  B.C.   and the 60 & 80 series had  6”  B.C.        The 1936   40 series had a 5” B.C..   the 60 and 80 series had a 5-1/2” B.C.,  and the 90 series had a 6” B.C..     The 37-40 also will work but the 37-60 had a 5-1/2” wheel.  The 37-80 and 90 also had 5” B.C. wheels.   So, there are your options.       If your are going to match your ‘38’  40 series car,  you can use  1935 40 series (rare),  or the 36-40 series  and the 36-will also work.   The 37-40  (Also hard to find) (reason - ?,   the 5” B.C. wheels will fit a lot of modern  cars so guys would grab them to put on their cars - especially the artillery style. ).  !  !     I am fortunate to have very nice  5-1/2”  B.C. wheels.    I found a 5-1/2”  set  (6)  of wire wheels that will let me swap my artillery wheels when ever I want,    However,  that requires a second set of tires ( $ $ ).   So I will start with my regular wheels the car came with.   According to Buick,  my  35-57 series had wire wheels as an option.   Have fun. !     Check with Dave Tacheny in Minneapolis.   1-763-427-3460.    He does not do e-mails,  phone only between 4:30 - 6 pm.   He is a good supplier of ‘36’ to ‘40’ parts.  (This info came from Service Manuals that I have on my shelf).      

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Possibly an error on the 37-60 series.  ( wrong chart).  It should read :     The 37-40 series and 60 series used 5” B.C. while the 80 & 90 series used a 5-1/2” B.C.      The “37”  wheel design was like the ‘38’ design but had a different hub cap.   

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Wow @Jim Nelson thank you for that most comprehensive answer, you know your stuff about these thirty’s!!! Guess I should have been a bit more detailed in why I’m askin, which is basically what do I need to bring with me to swap out the wheels for loading this ol gal onto my trailer. Hoping they might pump up, I’ve been pleasantly surprised before. But if not😕

 

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This works best but if not,  knowing which wheel you have makes life easier.    If they are 5” bc wheels,  you just take the wheels off your ‘38’.     If they are  5-1/2” wheels, then  I’ve got reasonably good wheels / tires to get your beast up and on your trailer and home.    Then,  Jack it up on Jack stands and I’ll take my wheels back home.   You can hope that if you got 5-1/2” wheels,  that you car sand black them and paint them.    As I mentioned,  those wheels are hard to find so renovating them is important.    Ahhh,  the fun of resurrection of great old cars.  

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4 hours ago, MrEarl said:

Wow @Jim Nelson thank you for that most comprehensive answer, you know your stuff about these thirty’s!!! Guess I should have been a bit more detailed in why I’m askin, which is basically what do I need to bring with me to swap out the wheels for loading this ol gal onto my trailer. Hoping they might pump up, I’ve been pleasantly surprised before. But if not😕

 

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Signed up for the local Tech School wood working classes have you Lamar?

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On 1/11/2020 at 3:04 PM, MCHinson said:

If I understand Jim's data correctly, it sounds like you need to stop by your friend Brian's house on the way to pick it up and borrow some extra wheels.:)

 

Great idea Matthew I'll run it by him   yo @38Buick 80C  got any spare wheels with old tires laying around.

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Yea, someone else had suggested that earlier and is certainly an option. Waiting to hear from the seller as to what condition the exiting tires are in. If there are tubes present, there's a good chance they will pump up for long enough to load. I've loaded many a old derelict post war Buicks, some with and without even wheels and always enjoy the challenge. Will be sure to carry some crisco too....

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 I'd suggest some lumber and a floor jack just in case too. I loaded a 1938 out of a field and the rear end or tranny was frozen along with both front brakes locked up. Front brakes weren't a problem after I removed the shoes. Put some lumber down and the floor jack under the differential and used a come-a-long to drag it up on the trailer. It was a tough day,  but at least unloading was easy as I chained it to a sturdy tree and drove away.

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Spoke with the seller, says he has some old tires on some old 5.5 Ford rims he will donate to the cause. Yay!!!!!

Thanks all for your suggestions and help

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  • 2 weeks later...

Seller reports that none of the Ford wheels will fit (the center holes were too small) so am back to square one. From what I am seeing in the latest pictures, the wheels on it are rusted through so will not be candidates for tubes. So...

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6 hours ago, MrEarl said:

Seller reports that none of the Ford wheels will fit (the center holes were too small) so am back to square one. From what I am seeing in the latest pictures, the wheels on it are rusted through so will not be candidates for tubes. So...

 

Lamar, for the purpose of rolling the car onto a trailer the centre holes won't have to fit.

 

Providing the bolt pattern is correct ( Ford wheels ) the rear wheels will bolt on but will not tighten up flush to the brake drum ( by the thickness of the axle flange which is what the centre hole in wheel is for ). 

I think you will find the Buick wheel bolts will be long enough to secure the wheels for loading/unloading purposes.

 

You may not get the fronts as close to the brake drums as the rears. Buy/manufacture some longer bolts which will engage on the hub and pull the wheel on as tight as the smaller centre hole will allow.

 

Obviously not recommended under any other circumstances apart from loading/unloading. 

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On 1/11/2020 at 2:36 PM, 1937-44 said:

 Short answer I would say no. My understanding is 1938 Special wheels have a 5 inch bolt circle and the 1936 Roadmaster has a 5.5 inch bolt circle.

 

Carl

 

Would my 1937 Roadmaster 80C also have a 5.5 inch bolt circle?

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10 hours ago, 50jetback said:

Lamar, for the purpose of rolling the car onto a trailer the centre holes won't have to fit.

 

 

Ran your comments by the seller and he says the wheels he has "won't get within 5 inches of the drums"
 

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7 hours ago, 1937-44 said:

 Lamar have you thought about trying 1954 wheels on the 36 to get it on the trailer? According to a Hollander I have the wheels for a 54 Buick are 15 inch wheel    15x6    5 lug and a 5.5 center.

 

Carl

Good idea Carl, I certainly have enough of them laying around. Will still need to ensure they fit well enough over the hubs to bolt on.

 

3 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

Two possibilities, take your blue-tip wrench and enlarge the center holes or, take a 12,000 lb winch and just drag it on the trailer even if all fours are flat and locked up.

 

 

Even if I get wheels on it, the seller is saying three wheels are locked up and that it won't steer. Plan on taking a 4 inch grinder and a can of Crisco. Or maybe I'll just call a local wrecker service and have them bring a rollback. Load it onto the rollback then from the rollback onto the trailer.

 

5 hours ago, GARY F said:

Yes Mr Earl I am waiting for you to bring it home.  I follow all your post.

Ha, Carl. This one is quite the challenge. I've loaded '54's with no tires and a couple with no rear axles using 10" power poles laid on the trailer deck and winching them on using a hand winch. I'm bound and determined to get this baby home. I mean after all, where there's a wheel, there's a way, right. :rolleyes:

 

 

Here's the latest pictures the seller sent after dragging it 100 ft out of a fenced enclosure for me.

 

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So the center wheel bore on my 54’s and the ‘38 measure to be 3 7/16”. I would assume that would be same for a  ‘36 80 but not wanting to take a chance, can someone please verify that for me. 

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 Measure the center hole of the wheels first and Good Luck.  If the hole is large enough and you're still having trouble maybe even put them on backwards just to load it. I'm sure one way or another you'll succeed.

 

 Wow! You certainly have your work cut out for you, but not near as much as whoever would attempt to resurrect that.  People may well chastise me, but it doesn't even look like it's worth much for parts unless you have better luck selling 1936 parts than I had selling 1937 parts.

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2 minutes ago, 1937-44 said:

 Measure the center hole of the wheels first and Good Luck.  If the hole is large enough and you're still having trouble maybe even put them on backwards just to load it. I'm sure one way or another you'll succeed.

 

 Wow! You certainly have your work cut out for you, but not near as much as whoever would attempt to resurrect that.  People may well chastise me, but it doesn't even look like it's worth much for parts unless you have better luck selling 1936 parts than I had selling 1937 parts.

  
I think I’ll be good if the center hole of the ‘36 80 is 3 7/16”, just would like to know fore I get there. 
This is going to be strictly a preservation project, ie clean out all the rat and cat poop, maybe gently wash it so as not to remove the wonderful patina then proudly display it in front of the Buick Sales and Service Garage. 
And people will probably chastise me for NOT dismantling it and selling parts😬😁

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Earl,   The 36-80 series wheels have a hub bore (front - rear probably the same) is 3.750 .    Same as the 36-60 series and the 36-90 series has a 4.500” hub bore.    This is per my 36 series service manual,  page 90,  on ‘wheels and tires’.     Having any fun yet ? ? ......

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On 1/28/2020 at 8:35 PM, Jim Nelson said:

Having any fun yet ? ? ...

  
was until you spoiled my hopes that my ‘54 rims would fit. not gonna be much fun cutting bigger holes in them. Thanks buddy 😆. 😬😢

Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)
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I am thinking that a set of wheel dollies might work if you can't find the right wheels. If you buy a set from Harbor Freight Tools, if any of the wheel casters don't survive the trip, they will exchange the broken ones for new ones with no questions asked. I had a friend who had one wheel break off of one wheel dolly and Harbor Freight Tools insisted on exchanging the complete set of two wheel dollies instead of just the one that he was expecting to exchange. 

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I’ve used a wheel dolly before on a crippled 20’s Buick with 3 wheels, worked great and may be an option here. My one concern would be needing the tires to give me clearance of the running board over the trailer fenders. These 80 series Buicks are WIDE.  I’m already raising the trailer deck with some 2x’s to overcome this. I’ll be carrying some dollies anyhow in case needed due to wheels being locked up. Thanks for the suggestion though. 

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On 1/29/2020 at 9:35 AM, Jim Nelson said:

Earl,   The 36-80 series wheels have a hub bore (front - rear probably the same) is 3.750 .    Same as the 36-60 series and the 36-90 series has a 4.500” hub bore.    This is per my 36 series service manual,  page 90,  on ‘wheels and tires’.     Having any fun yet ? ? ......

 

1936 shop manual as per Jim's post.

 

Brake drum is 1936 Century ( Series 60 )

 

Wheel is 1936 Century ( Series 60 )

 

Actual measurement seems to contradict the shop manual!

 

Now you really are having fun, can't wait for the next instalment.

 

AND DON'T BREAK THAT FRONT GRILL WHEN LOADING.  

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2 hours ago, 50jetback said:

 

Actual measurement seems to contradict the shop manual!

 
and in the wrong direction at that, I was hoping your pictures were depicting 3 3/16  but nooo, just the other direction. If I’m going to cut up some decent wheels I’ll cut them just inside the lug nut holes. I better ask , is there any reason I should have to cut out for  the rears?  
 

Thanks Stuart!  and you can bet I’ll be careful with the grill! 

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10 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 
 better ask , is there any reason I should have to cut out for  the rears?  
 

 

 

No - but of course the wheels won't bolt up tight against the brake drum and will have a gap the width of the axle flange ( less than 1/2" ).

 

So when is the big move?

 

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Bcause it looks longer and wider than a small series but definitely not a limo I guess. 😁 I’m just cutting the  center hole to practically the inner radius of the bolt hole. for play sake 

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15 hours ago, 50jetback said:
On 1/30/2020 at 7:01 AM, MrEarl said:

 

 

No - but of course the wheels won't bolt up tight against the brake drum and will have a gap the width of the axle flange ( less than 1/2" ).

 

So when is the big move?

 
Depending on how well and easily the first two cut and the rims are in non restorable shape I may just cut all all 4 . Will see

 

not sure when yet. I pulled 7 rims with tires off ‘54 parts cars yesterday. One popped at 25 lbs, the other 6 held 32. Will be checking again this morning, hopefully at least 4 still have 25-30. Will see

 

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Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)
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