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If you could only have one “dream” car.......


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5 hours ago, Walt G said:

The oval handles on the open car with FDR in it indicate the car was a 7 passenger touring car. 58L-Y8 is correct , a phaeton had the regular styled door handles these were used on the other body types/styles  for the cars as well. Some town cars had oval handles ( by request of the buyer or the body builder) and yes they do acknowledge the earlier era of cars and body styles that reflect the horse drawn coach era.  the 5 passenger open 4 door body style that used side curtains and did not have roll up windows in the doors have been referred to as both touring cars and phaetons. The name phaeton came into more use in the late 1920s  especially for a five passenger car. For a while some car manufacturers used the word touring car for a 7 passenger car and phaeton for a 5 passenger car. This mainly took place until the mid 1930s when the open car that used side curtains ( usually with 4 doors)  was phased out as a body style that you would see on offer in a sales piece of promotional literature issued by the automobile manufacturer.

Thanks for enlarging on this subject, the difference between the 7 passenger touring car and the five passenger phaeton still seems be a misunderstood distinction.   Both styles were open cars, both with four doors, both utilized side curtains so seem to be the same.  The major recognizable difference is the length the rear section of the body (tub) extended past the rear axle plane: the 7 passenger can nearly reach the frame ends versus the phaeton which is generally more close-coupled nearer the rear axle plane.  The former recalls the earliest configurations of multi-passenger styles, the latter has more attractive proportions, rarely accommodates jump seats for additional passengers in the tonneau.   By the mid'1930's, the preference for the comforts of the closed sedan was nearly universal; the open touring car or phaeton left to the province of the parade car or the sportsman's fair weather companion.  

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So true.

Who wants to "vacation" down the interstate in a dual cowl phaeton with the top down at 75MPH, and getting passed by 18 wheelers every 5 minutes ? 

 

 

ME,ME, please choose ME..........................

 

Mike in Colorado

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14 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Thanks for enlarging on this subject, the difference between the 7 passenger touring car and the five passenger phaeton still seems be a misunderstood distinction.   Both styles were open cars, both with four doors, both utilized side curtains so seem to be the same.  The major recognizable difference is the length the rear section of the body (tub) extended past the rear axle plane: the 7 passenger can nearly reach the frame ends versus the phaeton which is generally more close-coupled nearer the rear axle plane.  The former recalls the earliest configurations of multi-passenger styles, the latter has more attractive proportions, rarely accommodates jump seats for additional passengers in the tonneau.   By the mid'1930's, the preference for the comforts of the closed sedan was nearly universal; the open touring car or phaeton left to the province of the parade car or the sportsman's fair weather companion.  

 

Technically correct, depending on the nomenclature of the manufacturer -

but-

while my 1930 Packard Dual Windshield 7-passenger 733 was deemed a TOURING by Packard,

my 1916 Hudson SIX-40 7-Passenger was advertised as a PHAETON,

and,

my 1937 Buick Roadmaster 4-door convertible, Model 80C with roll-up glass windows, while more commonly considered a convertible sedan, was identified by Buick as a PHAETON-

so most attempts at universal identification or commonality may depend upon the eye of the beholder?

 

Call them what you will,

but driving them cross-country, or on a club tour,

will put a smile on your face !

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Marty, you are correct on all counts. it depends upon what the manufacturer, coach builder, or even current collector chooses to call their car.

You and I both own similar make and era cars - both of us own the same year, model and body style Packard and we both have a pre war Roadmaster conv sedan, (phaeton - whatever!!)

It is like trying to define in today's nomenclature what a "classic " car is - is it a specific make of luxury car primarily built pre WWII? or most any postwar car because it looks good and doesn't resemble any modern car ? There will never ever be one definition that will please everyone. 🤪

 

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9 hours ago, Walt G said:

 

It is like trying to define in today's nomenclature what a "classic " car is - is it a specific make of luxury car primarily built pre WWII? or most any postwar car because it looks good and doesn't resemble any modern car ? There will never ever be one definition that will please everyone. 🤪

 

 

 

We both know the true definition set by the CCCA, no since wasting time with the later day collectors, trying to correct them. Bob 

Edited by 1937hd45 (see edit history)
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On 12/17/2019 at 10:11 PM, Xander Wildeisen said:

Amelia Island 145.jpg

Hop into my Chrysler its as big as a whale and about to set sail!!

I got me a car and it sears about 20 so come on, and bring your juke box money!

 

All I can think about when Marty and you posted these big boys!  This just has to be the car B52s sing about... 

 

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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6 minutes ago, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

Search “Beast of Turin” for some incredible video of this monster in action.

 

 

I really don't care how much of this Beast left the FIAT factory, my hat is off to the guy and his crew that built it, and race it. The Vintage hobby looks like a a lot of fun in the UK. Bob 

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Jeff, Thanks for starting this thread. It's a winner. 

 

Like many of us I am partial to the same cars that I loved as a boy. I grew up in the 1950's and was an antique auto enthusiast from an early age. In my area great classic and foreign sports cars didn't exist so my tastes run toward American iron, mostly prewar.

 

I was a “barn find hunter” from the time I was a toddler and searched the backyards as I would ride with my dad. One that I found when I was about 14 years old has been a fantasy ever since. An elderly, eccentric hoarder near me had a 1942 Packard 180 limousine stashed away along with other large American cars. The Packard was in very good shape. It had sidemounts, push button radio, power windows including the division window, an intercom and even factory air conditioning. It was dark Packard blue with blue/grey cloth in the passenger area and black leather for the chauffeur. I made friends with the old guy and used to visit him (and the Packard), sit on that black leather, look out over the long hood and imagine I was driving it. It is still the car I covet the most. This photo of a similar car is from Packardinfo.com .

 

 

706467565_1942limofrompackardinfo_com.thumb.jpg.2b34833e12da60c3cdf40036c1eab579.jpg

 

 

My second dream car would be one of the Pontiacs from the Catoosa County, Georgia sheriff's department. Sheriff J. D Stewart was famous for his fleet of Trans Am patrol cars (google him). But he was using Pontiacs long before the Tran Am was introduced. Sheriff Stewart was a speed enthusiast with close connections to both Pontiac and NASCAR. Popular legend was that his Pontiacs were delivered to one of the NASCAR garages before going to the sheriff and tweaked by their mechanics to near NASCAR specs using parts not available even to normal speed enthusiasts.

 

My buddy bought a 1960 Ventura hardtop from the sheriff when his 1961 fleet arrived. In its year of service it had accumulated something over 100k miles. I went with him to pick it up and the sheriff took us to an unopened stretch of I-75 where he clocked it through the radar at 145 mph and demonstrated how it would break traction at 100 mph with a jab at the accelerator. It was a white Ventura with a red interior. The modified tri-power 389 with free-flowing exhaust headers had a distinct lope that attracted attention whenever you stopped. The stiff suspension was brutal but would out-handle any production car from Detroit. With three on the column the clutch must have insured strong leg muscles in the deputies lucky enough to drive the beast regularly. I wonder if any of J.D. Stewart's Pontiacs survive.

 

Don

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Wonderful thread! The dream changes daily but I wouldn't regret choosing the '37 Packard 1508 one-off sport sedan by Rollston though had I been the lucky soul who ordered it would have asked that they use the shorter rear overhang to take width out of the C-pillar, and omit the side mounts, all as shown. Needs only a cormorant.

 

1937 Packard 1508 Rollston Sport Sedan mod.jpg

Edited by Mahoning63 (see edit history)
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15 hours ago, DLynskey said:

Jeff, Thanks for starting this thread. It's a winner. 

 

Like many of us I am partial to the same cars that I loved as a boy. I grew up in the 1950's and was an antique auto enthusiast from an early age. In my area great classic and foreign sports cars didn't exist so my tastes run toward American iron, mostly prewar.

 

I was a “barn find hunter” from the time I was a toddler and searched the backyards as I would ride with my dad. One that I found when I was about 14 years old has been a fantasy ever since. An elderly, eccentric hoarder near me had a 1942 Packard 180 limousine stashed away along with other large American cars. The Packard was in very good shape. It had sidemounts, push button radio, power windows including the division window, an intercom and even factory air conditioning. It was dark Packard blue with blue/grey cloth in the passenger area and black leather for the chauffeur. I made friends with the old guy and used to visit him (and the Packard), sit on that black leather, look out over the long hood and imagine I was driving it. It is still the car I covet the most. This photo of a similar car is from Packardinfo.com .

 

 

706467565_1942limofrompackardinfo_com.thumb.jpg.2b34833e12da60c3cdf40036c1eab579.jpg

 

 

 

 


Don,  I have always loved Packards, my “affordable” dream car I was fortunate enough to own. Pictured below. I have since passed it along to a new caretaker. Funny you picture a 180 limo, I have a friend with one for sale right now. I won’t go look as I am afraid I will buy it!   Jeff P.

1BF17794-1700-4A13-B6B6-3655D60D2B60.jpeg

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Well, OK, I did it. I took the perhaps indecent liberty to differentiate between the original proposition, that regarding the one and only dream car you would have, money being irrelevant, if you could have but one. Having another AFFORDABLE dream car is quite a different subject. With due respect to Jeff Perkins, and fellow members, if taking such liberties is deemed inappropriate, and mixing the two almost opposite aspirations is preferable, I will gladly delete the topic I just started. As I posted, a Model T Ford is a conceivable next possession. A 1930 Mercedes-Benz SS38/250 is as impossible for me as re-floating and re-commissioning the Titanic as a yacht for me.    -   Carl 

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On 12/23/2019 at 8:37 AM, Mahoning63 said:

Wonderful thread! The dream changes daily but I wouldn't regret choosing the '37 Packard 1508 one-off sport sedan by Rollston though had I been the lucky soul who ordered it would have asked that they use the shorter rear overhang to take width out of the C-pillar, and omit the side mounts, all as shown. Needs only a cormorant.

 

1937 Packard 1508 Rollston Sport Sedan mod.jpg

Looks good Photoshopped, but equally looks good in its original factory photos too !

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As a sidenote:  I am restoring a 1936 Auburn 852 Phaeton and it is a spare tire in the trunk car and of course you know we have a 1935 851 Auburn Phaeton with Sidemounts, plus another 852 with Sidemounts.  When I went to restore the 852, the first question from everyone had was will I be trading the equipment around so the car I am doing has sidemounts - the answer was NO, as I spent a lot of time trying to get a spare tire in the trunk car (they are all still mumbling though).  That being said, I see their point as the sidemounted spares have a very elegant look to them and ...

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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On 12/8/2019 at 11:30 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Your post kind of implies that the 1932 Peerless V16 prototype doesn't exist. It does and it's here in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland:

 

autowp.ru_prochie_peerless_v16_5-passenger_sedan_by_murphy_1.jpg

 

Or was there one I'm not familiar with? You know Peerless better than anyone--is/was there another V16?

 

Below are a couple of drawings of Peerless V-16 or V-12 cars not completed at Murphy coachworks. There were designs for:

  • a Convertible
  • a Roadster
  • and variations on the Sedan and Coupe theme
  • the second, unfinished car was described as a "blind-window coupe"(2-door, 4-passenger coupe? 3-window coupe?)

 

At the Peerless Booth at Hershey in 2013, David Baird and I had 3 x 6 foot vinyl banners of these on display, in our 30' x 30' tent. From a December, 1995 Collectible Automobile story  by James Howell with Franklin Q. Hershey, on Peerless and the V-16 project. Please see the comments on pg 3 of this discussion (December 8th, 2019 -- me to Matt Harwood).

Screenshot 2019-12-25 at 12.16.33 PM.png

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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The Peerless V-16 is a Franklin Hershey design masterpiece on an engineering masterpiece chassis.  But for the Depression, the public would have seen a surpassing V-16 even beyond the Cadillac and Marmon, a high standard indeed.

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On 1/1/2020 at 7:03 AM, Yellowriv said:

My pick, pity there were only four and the Le Mans coupe. Failing that one of the “production” Berlinettas or Spiders would suffice...

 

Excellent choices!!!

 

All I could afford was the book by Simon Moore. 30 years ago it was very hard to find.

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