1950panhead

1932 Caddy V16 - no reserve (Sothby's)

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https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0011-1932-cadillac-v-16-five-passenger-sedan-by-fleetwood/830531

 

1932 Cadillac V-16 Five-Passenger Sedan by Fleetwood

Offered Without Reserve

RM | Sotheby's - ARIZONA 16 - 17 JANUARY 2020 - The John D. Groendyke Collection


Engine No. 1400238
Body No.  23
 
  • Offered from the collection of John D. Groendyke
  • One of only 300 V-16s produced in 1932
  • Restored in its original color scheme
  • Documented by a copy of its original build sheet
  • Classic Car Club of America (CCCA) Full Classic

Cadillac sold only 300 V-16s in 1932—but it was the result of the Great Depression, and no reflection on the quality of the automobile they built. Not only was the V-16 superbly engineered, but fresh new styling gave it a sporty air, care of the lengthened hood, lowered roofline, more curved fenders, and streamlined headlamp shells. It was a powerful, costly machine that looked the part and was among the most visually distinctive of its era. Today it is also among the rarest.

The John D. Groendyke Collection’s handsome five-passenger sedan was ordered in February 1932 by the Cadillac Auto Company of Boston, Massachusetts, built a month later, and delivered in the spring. It remained on the East Coast for many years, and in 1988 it was noted as being in the ownership of Terrence Teodori in New Jersey. Later it became part of a prominent Full Classic collection in Northern Ohio, and in that ownership it was restored by the collection’s in-house shop between 2007 and 2014. As part of this work, the body was returned to the original color of Viceroy Maroon Dark, with a beautiful and correctly tailored broadcloth interior. The result is truly spectacular in every way, benefitting more recently from the fine maintenance of the John D. Groendyke Collection, typical of all of their vehicles.

Among the most beautiful examples of closed coachwork on the scarce 1932 V-16 chassis, this Cadillac is one of virtually unbridled and unequaled opportunity—deserving of either the show field or the open road. It is tempting to imagine it as a CARavan participant, loaded with passengers and luggage, carried with ease behind the gently purring V-16.

Edited by 1950panhead
x (see edit history)

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Its a great car.......I'm shocked at no reserve. 

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I think the color will turn more then a few buyers off. Even if the whole car were the fender color it would be a bit better. But that is just my opinion.

It is like looking at a very pretty lady who has on to much makeup , you loose the true beauty  of what  you are viewing. Sometimes less is more. SO often

over the many decades I have heard someone say "well for $50.00 more you could have had the car painted any color you want " This all being stated with

a - yeah I know it all - smirk and stance by who is speaking. Trouble is if you had the $ to buy the car when new 99% of the time you didn't have a bright color

painted , because of the economic situation of that era people with $ did not want to call attention to themselves since many many people couldn't even afford

50 cents for a decent meal. Yes, cars were indeed painted bright colors in the Great Depression, but that was usually in areas of the USA that had bright sunshine for most of the year.

I usually tell people who give me the "for $50 you could have" remark - 'do you realize that most people at that time weren't making $50 per month working at a full time job ? '

 

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

Its a great car.......I'm shocked at no reserve. 

Nothing to be shocked about .When its cheap : a dealer like Richard Rawlings will buy it to sell it later  with a profit or the owner will buy it back with the help of a friend who will bid for him .

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I'll take it in this color.  Dark hues are much more complimenting than say tan like everyone painted them for a while or a very light blue.  Maybe not the absolute best choice but I would say in the upper percentages for what was available. 

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Gentlemen, the color is factory as listed on the build sheet. Red/maroon has been over done to death, here it is ok and appropriate. 32 V-16’s are fantastic cars,  both driving and style. I’ll take it.

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Both this red one and the green one with wheel dics currently offered for sale came out of the same collection in the Midwest.   The red one was sold at the Hershey RM auction 3 years ago  for around 200K I believe.  

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Remember back in the 1950s, '60s and '70s when so many restorations were maroon with black fenders?

Some ideas are cyclical, less appropriate, and become less attractive with the passage of time.

Good taste should eventually prevail, 

but it is someone else's car, and their choice, after all

Edited by Marty Roth (see edit history)

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I know nothing about Cadillacs, but that's possibly the most beautiful engine photo I've ever seen. Thanks for posting.

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The sale three years ago for 200k was probably twenty five cents on the dollar for the restoration. That car is very well done.

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3 hours ago, edinmass said:

The sale three years ago for 200k was probably twenty five cents on the dollar for the restoration. That car is very well done.

I feel like that is the going rate for all cars right now whether it is a Ford or the mighty Cadillac 452B. My '26 Ford is being sold for just about the same exchange rate.

 

I agree with Ed, that this is a very nicely done car, particularly because it is in the original color scheme. And WOW what a stunner of an interior. No wonder the closed cars were more expensive when they were new.

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15 hours ago, edinmass said:

Gentlemen, the color is factory as listed on the build sheet. Red/maroon has been over done to death, here it is ok and appropriate. 32 V-16’s are fantastic cars,  both driving and style. I’ll take it.

When at all possible I believe in sticking with the original color (especially if build sheets, factory photos, or ...) - if truly horrid, perhaps tweak it a shade or two, but surprisingly some of the odd colors of the various periods get some solid attention. I have an unrestored 1936 Auburn in the storage building that was originally Black, but must have been pained Neptune Blue to sell it off the lot - odd but popular color for the time  and probably would stand out as impressive on a show field. 

 

Relatives had a 1935 Packard Twelve Coupe-Roadster that sported original turquoise -blue paint with chrome wheels hub/spokes on painted rims - and when sold the next owner immediately painted the car bright red and chromed the wire wheels. Sort of criminal in my opinion to touch it to begin with, though especially that something with photos from day one was turned into something it never was. 

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The only thing I do not like about the Green V-16 is that they look dazzling with the wheel disks done in polished/chrome finish (all be it plenty of pictures of painted covers).  And, it would not take me long to get double whitewalls onto the Red/Maroon V-16. 

 

My only advice is that if truly interested someone test it out behind the steering wheel as cars that have fixed front seats are a mixed bag as to comfort for the driver.  That said, I am not seeing too many driven, so if just going to be a garage queen and showfield queen then both suit the need.

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7 hours ago, JamesR said:

I know nothing about Cadillacs, but that's possibly the most beautiful engine photo I've ever seen. Thanks for posting.

Maybe 18 years ago I priced out a 1931 V-16 engine rebuild - cost was 24K for a driver and another 24K extra for a 100 point cosmetics to be done on engine. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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17 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

Maybe 18 years ago I priced out a 1931 V-16 engine rebuild - cost was 24K for a driver and another 24K extra for a 100 point cosmetics to be done on engine. 

 

I was quoted "maybe $25 or 30,000" for the V12 in The Car Which Shall Not Be Named.

 

This one is not a Cadillac, but I have receipts on this V16 totaling almost $54,000, and that's not counting two newly cast Edelbrock cylinder heads @ $10,000 each. Multi-cylinder engines are not for the faint of heart or wallet.

 

085.thumb.JPG.9e30bd3fa8a66421bf667dd74940439b.JPG

 

That said, if anyone needs a spare rebuilt aluminum Sixteen, I've got a spare ready to run...

Sixteen1.thumb.jpg.64b40642bc7b30a7d57367ff6ad87375.jpg

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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54K Plus 20K.............and the motor wasn't junk.......it was a good runner. Think what it would have cost if a hack tractor mechanic had done the last "rebuild". 

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8 years ago, the generator rebuild on the 34 Cadillac V-16 was about $2,300 without any detailing, plus shipping and a surprising amount of time to take it in and out (which I did myself, but if you paid someone else to play under hood monkey in an area of the car without the best access even though it looks right in your face matched to not chipping up paint and .... it costs good money) - parts unobtainium issues and just a limited amount of shops with any experience with one (good news was worked flawlessly when done). 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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23 minutes ago, Brooklyn Beer said:

Just curious, but how much is a new cap and rotor for a V16 ?

 

 

Depends.......reproductions are less expensive.......three grand all in for both.

 

NOS- what the market will pay........

 

Used........... - what the market will pay

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8 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Depends.......reproductions are less expensive.......three grand all in for both.

 

NOS- what the market will pay........

 

Used........... - what the market will pay

 

Even the 8's aren't cheap, certain 8cyl share caps with Duesenbergs which I suspect pushes up the price rather than lower it from the Duesenbergs!

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On 12/23/2019 at 1:11 AM, hidden_hunter said:

 

Even the 8's aren't cheap, certain 8cyl share caps with Duesenbergs which I suspect pushes up the price rather than lower it from the Duesenbergs!

The "right" distributor caps in proper color bakelite and ... are always expensive.  Good news though,  you probably only need one in your lifetime. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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Interestingly enough, the distributor cap for a Cadillac V16 will fit a Marmon Sixteen, but a Marmon cap won't fit a Cadillac.

 

Note: this point may not be relevant to this discussion.

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