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mercer09

pierce for sale-patina...........

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Plate was used by US forces in occupied Germany circa 1947-8. It was one of several designs used over time there.

 

 

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Have you ever seen any Pierce Arrow that isn’t cool?

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A few years ago a friend in Texas asked me to look at a Packard for him, for sale by a well known dealer. It was about in the same condition but I was treated to pitch on how "survivor" cars were what everyone wanted ... etc. etc. etc. I had the impression he thought I'd just fallen off a turnip truck. I don't think anyone is more tolerant of shabby but otherwise original cars than I am but this is carrying the survivor thing to absurdity.

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Yup. I'm with you, JV. Patina ? PATINA ? That ain't patina, that is severe, expensive damage. The interior is insufferable. Survivor? Someone say survivor ? I say "Emperor's New Clothes". Hey, remember that exquisite '29 that Ed and John went through and sorted to turn key transcontinental capability.? Remember that interior ? The scrumptious perfection of that original interior was probably, what, $35,000 or more away from what it would take to put this sad sack in such comfortably gracious shape.And even then, it would never be original. If Ed's '29, (which I fell eternally in love with), was, IIRC 30 some grand and change, what justifies 20 grand for this thing. Oh,'that's enough for now. Yeah : "Emperor's New Clothes".       Expletives deleted,    -    Cadillac Carl 

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well, I for one like it just the way it is.

 

Not everyone wants a 1000 point show car, but I am tolerant towards that desire.............

 

there are 100s of acceptable ways to collect in this hobby. What makes it so great.

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Some say it is great some even spend as much as it would cost ,for correct paint work . to have it look like  that I guess I am not some !

One of my  cars has original paint work ( worn through)  I am going to paint it

kerries phone 083.jpg

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The car looks good to me. The hole/rust above the windshield can easily be repaired with some thin aluminum, pop rivets, & a lot of silicone. Total cost: about $17. 

rolling laughing.gif

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Have any Pierce Arrows sold in similar condition the past three years ?

Is $19k reasonable or crazy ?

Interior looks pretty bad.

What say ye Ed ?

 

image.png.d9373c3ffd1a4e99da1e41321e344d

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7 hours ago, mercer09 said:

well, I for one like it just the way it is.

 

Not everyone wants a 1000 point show car, but I am tolerant towards that desire.............

 

 

I have zero interest in "100 point show cars" or just about any show cars - or car shows for that matter. I prefer a great car (which this is) in worn condition but largely unmucked. But this one, with its rusted out valances and rodent infested interior, is beyond much use "as is". Were I 20 years younger I'd undertake a project like this but not for $20,000 and not with the goal of making the proverbial "100 point car."

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)

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I’ll add my adventures here for comparison...

 

I paid $15k on eBay for my 31 model 43 which needed the following work:

   1. A complete brake job, $250 in parts and several days labor (thankfully I had the tools)

   2. Tires, tubes, and flaps... $1600 more labor plus several good swear words for the cuts and bleeding 

   3. Complete wiring harness, $1200 plus several days work including a wrenched back from playing contortionist...

   4. The biggie, engine work, new gasket set is $600, new valves are $580 plus shipping, re-Babbitted connecting rods $1750 plus shipping both ways, new Ross pistons are approximately $1500 (less for EGGE, more for Aires), plus numerous small pieces that seem to either be unobtanium or priced as such. The rods won’t be done for another 4 months and allow around 5 weeks for the pistons once they are ordered. Not to mention any labor...

 

On the other side though, mine is perfectly solid and the interior was redone at some point and is quite comfortable. Since then, there was a second car similar to mine with side mounted wire wheels and a slightly rough original interior that sold on eBay for $22k

 

The one currently on eBay is a higher quality model than mine which might make it more desirable, but going only by the two I mentioned above I think it’s a little high price wise. Of course I have been told to expect to pay around $1000+ to replace my slightly chipped headlight lens, so there’s $2k right there...

 

 Ed can comment more about it, I already love mine and that was driving it with a poor compression engine...

 

 

6FFF5603-B993-42C0-9B5D-00E9FD683AC4.jpeg

EA8F93A2-B1E4-4C30-BDFB-743B1177F625.jpeg

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4 hours ago, 1950panhead said:

Have any Pierce Arrows sold in similar condition the past three years ?

Is $19k reasonable or crazy ?

Interior looks pretty bad.

What say ye Ed ?

 

image.png.d9373c3ffd1a4e99da1e41321e344d


 

I use to own an identical car.......condition is up to the purchaser, and what they will or will not live with. I don’t want to rain on the seller parade, so so won’t comment on it. Best of luck with the sale. 👍

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3 hours ago, Mark Wetherbee said:

I’ll add my adventures here for comparison...

 

I paid $15k on eBay for my 31 model 43 which needed the following work:

   1. A complete brake job, $250 in parts and several days labor (thankfully I had the tools)

   2. Tires, tubes, and flaps... $1600 more labor plus several good swear words for the cuts and bleeding 

   3. Complete wiring harness, $1200 plus several days work including a wrenched back from playing contortionist...

   4. The biggie, engine work, new gasket set is $600, new valves are $580 plus shipping, re-Babbitted connecting rods $1750 plus shipping both ways, new Ross pistons are approximately $1500 (less for EGGE, more for Aires), plus numerous small pieces that seem to either be unobtanium or priced as such. The rods won’t be done for another 4 months and allow around 5 weeks for the pistons once they are ordered. Not to mention any labor...

 

On the other side though, mine is perfectly solid and the interior was redone at some point and is quite comfortable. Since then, there was a second car similar to mine with side mounted wire wheels and a slightly rough original interior that sold on eBay for $22k

 

The one currently on eBay is a higher quality model than mine which might make it more desirable, but going only by the two I mentioned above I think it’s a little high price wise. Of course I have been told to expect to pay around $1000+ to replace my slightly chipped headlight lens, so there’s $2k right there...

 

 Ed can comment more about it, I already love mine and that was driving it with a poor compression engine...

 

 

6FFF5603-B993-42C0-9B5D-00E9FD683AC4.jpeg

EA8F93A2-B1E4-4C30-BDFB-743B1177F625.jpeg


 

So much of the hobby is subjective. And how to fix it can also be a series of choices based on monetary considerations. The Model 43 looks very nice and in my world is worth the time, effort, and expense to save it and enjoy it. The main car that started this post requires other questions and options. Always buy the best car you can afford.......it’s cheaper in the long run. I have driven much worse than the car that started the post...........if your having fun is the most important consideration.

 

 

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My understanding from my friend the Pierce guy is that there are important differences between a 29 and a 30 and a 31 and a 32.   Each year there were progressive mechanical improvements but the car maintained the open fender esthetic we all seem to love.

 

Ed, what if I have the exact same body, what is the premium each year?   2500?   So that an identical 32 is worth 10k more than an identical 29?

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I know this is petty, but why the heck didn't they just adjust the plate bracket to fit the holes in the front license plate, rather then drill another hole. That is a fairly rare plate and  the extra hole really hurts the value.

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12 hours ago, alsancle said:

My understanding from my friend the Pierce guy is that there are important differences between a 29 and a 30 and a 31 and a 32.   Each year there were progressive mechanical improvements but the car maintained the open fender esthetic we all seem to love.

 

Ed, what if I have the exact same body, what is the premium each year?   2500?   So that an identical 32 is worth 10k more than an identical 29?

 

 

Let's put it this way........29 & 30 are very close in price and drivability with the 30 definitely  a better driver. 1931 is a 25 - 35 percent price premium  at minimum. 1932 the eight engines get smaller with introduction of the V-12, but they have a better transmission. Styling from 31 to 32 is completely different. With three different size eights, four different chassis lengths, two different steering boxes, three different carburetors.......there is just too much to cover in a short post. Also, the 31 & 32 cars are much rarer than the 29's and 30's. So here is my choice for all Pierce eights from 1929 to 1932. Twelves NOT included.

 

1- 1931 Series 42

2-1931  Series 41

 

3&4 - 1931 Series 43 or 1932 Series 54

5&6 - 1930 Series A and 1930 Series B

7&8 - 1929 Series 133 and Series 143

9 - 1930 Series C

 

NOTE - All are great cars, and drive better than 90 percent of what was available in their day, the opinion is based on upgrades that make the car better drivers, easier to service, production and survival numbers, parts availability, ect. What have I owned as a perminant keeper in my garage, my "not for sale" cars............1931 Series 42 for 33 years, and a 1932 Series 54 for 12 years. I have owned countless others, but they were all accidental  or flip cars that stayed for a short time..........except the all origional 1929 Series 133 that we had for four or five years....which we drove the wheels off, it took us that long to sell it, otherwise it would have been gone sooner. 

 

 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)

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33 minutes ago, edinmass said:

1- 1931 Series 42

2-1931  Series 41

 

3&4 - 1931 Series 43 or 1932 Series 54

5&6 - 1930 Series A and 1930 Series B

7&8 - 1929 Series 133 and Series 143

9 - 1930 Series C

 

 

Thank you.  One question:  I thought the 41 was the catalog custom coachwork chassis.  Why is it ranked after 42?

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7 hours ago, mercer09 said:

so what would you really pay JV?

 

be honest.

 

It's really too new to be of much interest to me but were I advising someone else I'd say that the real deal breaker would be the rodent damage to the interior. I don't mind the worn appearance and I presume there would be mechanical issues to address but I don't see how you could make the inside reasonably nice without doing it over and, even disregarding the expense, it would then look out of place. That said, if it was an iron head PI, I'd think it was a great buy.

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My 31 Pierce has seat covers over an alright interior. The exterior was painted a gaudy bright blue in the 70s and looks like a circus, but the whole drive train was thoroughly gone through and rebuilt, so I think I made a score.

Maybe one day I will repaint it, but I doubt it. I enjoy it for what it is....... and the price was right- to me.

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" re-Babbitted connecting rods $1750 plus shipping both ways, ..."

 

For comparison purposes here is the receipt for rebabbiting and boring to fit (crank was not turned) the rods for my dad's 1933 Model 836 in 1962.. they came back individually boxed and wrapped like little jewels.

 

 

IMG_0004.jpg

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If I ever am able to get a PA - or another PI for that matter, it is bound to be something like this. But, I'd rather deal with mechanical problems than the interior. I was a big enthusiast for untouched original cars long before they were "survivors"... Back in the early 70s, when I had a really well preserved '27 Cadillac, one of the questions I was constantly asked was "when are you going to restore it"? I always answered "Why."

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