Graham Man

PayPal is charging for Tariffs; 25% of the purchase

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CNN : "- President Donald Trump announced Monday that the US will "restore" steel and aluminum tariffs on Brazil and Argentina, citing a "massive devaluation of their currencies." ..."

 

I follow this because I am invested in an iron ore producer.

 

 

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3 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Seriously? You really think the wholesaler effectively dropped their prices 25%? News flash. The wholesale price is the same as it was before.

 

Tariffs are paid at import. Whoever imports the product pays the tariff. That's just another cost that gets passed onto the end buyer, so the American consumer ultimately pays it. And frankly, WHO CARES whether the wholesaler or the importer physically pays the tariff to the feds?  If the retail price is 25% higher than it was before, the end buyer is ultimately paying it.

 

THANK-YOU!!!

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Of everything the tariffs have directly hit how have the prices gone up percentage wise that you are actually paying?  

I'm asking this to see what people are paying now compared to what they were paying for the same item.   This way we can see how much the 25% is really affecting the final prices.  I heard shoes were 4.00 a pair to make and that's what the companies would pay at the point the tariff would be added.  These are the same shoes they were charging $100 a pair for at the store.  

What I want to see is the hard numbers for how it's affected from people who have actually bought or been contemplating buying an item for the duration that tariffs were talked about/ enacted. 

We know there is alot of mis information out there that instantly said everything would cost 25% more.  Well then if so,  the retailers or suppliers are price gouging because the tariff isn't on retail. 

When I worked at a Marina pricing stock,  we marked our parts up 100 percent.  There was even a suggested price sheet for the items.  So we bought them from Mercury for 1/2 that price.  Mercury must have bought it from it's supplier for 1/2 of that or less because they were buying in such bulk so a $10 item must have cost mercury under 2.50.  So that $10 item actually would have went up .62. so it now cost probably 3.00 or less new.  

Post some examples so we can see how this is really affecting final prices. 

Obviously it's going to have some affect,  but is it as Earth shaking as the Media slams us with every day. 

I wonder if with the price increases are we just buying less or if our consumption remained the same?  Did we find new sources of the same products? 

 

 

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2 hours ago, mike6024 said:

President Donald Trump announced Monday that the US will "restore" steel and aluminum tariffs on Brazil and Argentina,

Trump also used a loop hole and  declared Canada a national threat and imposed a tariff on steal and aluminum also but took it off a year later. That caused a lot of hard feelings up here how it was done.  I think I will pass on this thread from here as it is a bad topic for me with the politics involved. 

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"declared Canada a national threat" oh snap, there goes all the snowbird dollars.

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1 hour ago, padgett said:

"declared Canada a national threat" oh snap, there goes all the snowbird dollars.

That was a while ago and as far as I know it didn't stop them much.  Not too many places in Canada that match Florida's daily weather/ temperatures in January or February.  Yeah they could skip the US and go to Mexico,  but from what I have heard lately,  the water is the least of your concerns down there. 

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4 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

That was a while ago and as far as I know it didn't stop them much.  Not too many places in Canada that match Florida's daily weather/ temperatures in January or February.  Yeah they could skip the US and go to Mexico,  but from what I have heard lately,  the water is the least of your concerns down there. 

So what it comes down to is this:..... Is your own personal ox being gored or is it some one elses?

That right there will drive the out rage or lack of same.

And so it goes.......bob

 

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)

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The US has been getting the shaft from almost every country.  It's time we put our best interest first.  Yes I'm sure mistakes will be made along the way,  but the old way of giving the farm away needs to be changed.  We are running out of farms to give away.  Atleast someone is trying.  The citizenry is getting tired of bleeding money and being the door matt for the world. 

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It wasn't that long ago Maytag quit making appliances, like washers, in the midwest. They transitioned most to mexico and still made some here, then gave up and moved it all out of the country. I have a Maytag washer that is probably 50, or 55 years  old and will keep it. It is very simple and well made.

 

In renegotiating NAFTA the afl-cio weighs in and says mexico needs minimum wages laws so that workers are at least paid a living wage, workplace safety laws, anti child labor law, etc. Mexico responds by laughing, saying you've got to be kidding, right?

 

AFL-CIO President Trumka has said, “We are working to try to get an agreement worthy of the American economy and the American worker.” Such an agreement, however, should prohibit investment decisions that increase poverty across North America, rather than accepting poverty and displacement as unfortunate byproducts of trade. It could mandate works councils to give unions power over company investment decisions, guarantee labor rights across borders, and even demilitarize the US-Mexico border itself.

 

http://aflcio.org/aboutleadershipstatements/trade-must-build-inclusive-economy-all

 

 

We reaffirm our commitment to labor rights and decent work for workers in all nations. Economic justice cannot be achieved by continuing to give global firms free rein to abuse workers and exploit the environment in a race to the bottom disguised as “free trade.” Nor can we allow trade agreements to be vehicles to achieve other corporate agendas that undermine the interests of working people and our families.

This is nowhere more true than in North America, where trade relations are governed by NAFTA. Its key failure was built into its structure: setting up a system of rigged trade, in which global firms could increase profits by transferring production to Mexico where they could take advantage of systemic worker repression, exploiting both U.S. and Mexican workers in the process. By design, NAFTA distorted power relationships in favor of global employers over workers, weakened worker bargaining power and encouraged the de-industrialization of the U.S. economy. NAFTA contains not a single rule to ensure that working people and our employers prosper together, even though its proponents falsely claimed that was the inevitable outcome.

After a quarter-century of this race to the bottom, workers in all three NAFTA countries find it more difficult to form unions and negotiate collective bargaining agreements. We face greater inequality. We face ever more powerful monopolies. And the United States faces a growing trade deficit, despite promises by the administration to address this imbalance.

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)

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My take as a Northern neighbour is that much of the transfer of production was done by U.S. based companies. There were Chinese products on the market but they were very low end junk that had little impact out side of discount retailers. A lot of the same junk that was previously made in Hong Kong , Taiwan and similar locations.

Then retailers like Walmart started to get Chinese factory's involved in producing goods to Walmart's specification.  Finally many mainstream U.S. companies started looking at Chinese production of many products right across the spectrum , consumer goods as well as commercial  / industrial/ even aerospace products. But generally

made to order for U.S. based companies.  

 Eventually enough manufacturing knowledge passed from the U.S. that the Chinese were able to extend themselves into the world market.

I am oversimplifying however the biggest giveaway seems to have been willingly made by greedy U.S. companies looking for cheaper sources of production. Better profit margin this year without any vision of how things might evolve in 10 years time.

 

Here in Canada we were happy to be a somewhat cheaper outsource supplier for U.S. companies. And we in turn bought substantial quantities of U.S. products.  Our balance of trade although not perfect was mutually  acceptable for many years.

U.S. ( and Canadian } trade with China is far more one sided. Lots of stuff being imported, very little exports from the West to China. Over 30 years this has become a real problem.

 

Greg in Canada

 

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1912

 

I was stunned to see many models of Germanys BMW motorcycles being made in china. that takes a lot of trust. Some in their entirety.

 

Timberland shoes, which were of the finest quality, are now completely made in china. Quality is still pretty good, but not what it once was.

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1 hour ago, mercer09 said:

1912

 

I was stunned to see many models of Germanys BMW motorcycles being made in china. that takes a lot of trust. Some in their entirety.

 

Timberland shoes, which were of the finest quality, are now completely made in china. Quality is still pretty good, but not what it once was.


I find that is true of other shoe manufacturers as well.  I don’t know where they are made, but 2 in particular that I have bought multiple pairs of the same exact shoes that didn’t last as long as they used to are my New Balance soccer referee shoes and my Merrell hiking shoes.  I always thought there must be some shared ingredient in the soles of them both that has changed.  They are not nearly as durable as they used to be.

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 Yeah they could skip the US and go to Mexico,  but from what I have heard lately,  the water is the least of your concerns down there.

 

 

I went last Feb- was OK, but wont be going back. hit six banks and only one would accept the American dollar. as I was standing in line, asked for exchange rate...........

 

teller gave it to me and then dropped it slightly. I said, hurry up and cash my money before it goes to zero!

 

Mexican fella next to me laughed his arse off!

 

theyre general attitude was pissed....... nobody likes freebies taken away!  Let's support America and stop with all of the foreign handouts.

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a) I stock Monopoly sets with currencies that went bust.

b) When I was a kid had a Philips Norelco stereo reel-reel recorders (first commercial one) and several shavers. After review of the Specs I took a cyber monday deal (sold out on Sunday) on a Philips 4K Android TV. Philips is Dutch but licensed its TVs to Funny (Japan) and it was made in Mexico. Seems very nice but a bit complicated so far.  No tariff yet.

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On 12/4/2019 at 9:51 AM, 1912Staver said:

My take as a Northern neighbour is that much of the transfer of production was done by U.S. based companies. There were Chinese products on the market but they were very low end junk that had little impact out side of discount retailers. A lot of the same junk that was previously made in Hong Kong , Taiwan and similar locations.

Then retailers like Walmart started to get Chinese factory's involved in producing goods to Walmart's specification.  Finally many mainstream U.S. companies started looking at Chinese production of many products right across the spectrum , consumer goods as well as commercial  / industrial/ even aerospace products. But generally

made to order for U.S. based companies.  

 Eventually enough manufacturing knowledge passed from the U.S. that the Chinese were able to extend themselves into the world market.

I am oversimplifying however the biggest giveaway seems to have been willingly made by greedy U.S. companies looking for cheaper sources of production. Better profit margin this year without any vision of how things might evolve in 10 years time.

 

Here in Canada we were happy to be a somewhat cheaper outsource supplier for U.S. companies. And we in turn bought substantial quantities of U.S. products.  Our balance of trade although not perfect was mutually  acceptable for many years.

U.S. ( and Canadian } trade with China is far more one sided. Lots of stuff being imported, very little exports from the West to China. Over 30 years this has become a real problem.

 

Greg in Canada

 

 

This is Capitalism. In the west, we seem to like its freedoms but also hate the greed. Unfortunately capitalism is inherently just accepted human greed, inflation is its metric.

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and stagflation (under 3%) ?

BTW GM sell more Caddys in China than the US. Good German cars.

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After WWII The Soviet Union occupied North Korea and the US took South Korea to dismantle the Japanese Empire. The big opportunity was to demonstrate the success of capitalism over communism. The lights in this picture represent US investment to make sure it worked. It is an American state. They just haven't done the paperwork. Our money keeps the lights on.

image.thumb.png.a7daaffee26b4cf4b9bd59404748d54e.png

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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On 12/5/2019 at 7:50 PM, maok said:

This is Capitalism. In the west, we seem to like its freedoms but also hate the greed. Unfortunately capitalism is inherently just accepted human greed, inflation is its metric.

 

As I see it, Capitalism is the freedom of opportunity. Most everyone is greedy, if they aren't, they don't have much unless it was given to them. Don't get jealous, get busy, anyone can do it.

 

Those complaining about the tariffs, simple solution, buy US goods, no tariffs. There is nothing unusual about the US having tariffs on imports, EVERY other nation on the planet has some form of tax on our imports. Randy mentioned he doesn't ship much to Mexico, that is because their tariffs about double the price of most good brought in. I too have been shipping all over the world and can state with utmost certainty, the US has been on the short end of every trade deal for the last 30 years. Canada has the least amount of duties/GST of any other I've shipped. Some of the Euro countries, like Italy and France have horrendous duties on our imports.

 

As Mercer points out, that 23 Trillion national debt isn't going away by itself.

 

Someone mentioned that we can eventually get things "back to normal". Us getting screwed on trade deals was never any sort of normalcy, it was extremely irresponsible and underhanded, fleecing our manufacturing sector. Biggest thievery in US history.

 

-Ron

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Think the current thievery is just a pale shadow of what went on in the US following the War of Northern Aggression. In the 60s it was a joke (see "The Mouse That Roared") that the quick way to get rich was to lose a war with the US. 

 

And we are rich in comparison with the bulk of the world with unlimited communications, every food readily available in many places. Superstores whose shelves are rarely empty. A 75" "home cinema" is $500, about the same as a weekly grocery bill for a family. Buying "Clubs" with even more for less.

 

The country is so rich there are more lawyers than doctors in the phone book and many older people have new eyes and hips, even those who did not play football.

 

In fact if you look at nearly every war this century, we won (when didn't just quit) buy breaking the other guy. We were the only ones who could afford $10 million dollar propellers and the other guy went broke trying to keep up.

 

Where else could a retired guy have six cars & garages in a resort ?

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17 hours ago, Locomobile said:

buy US goods, no tariffs.

 

Go ahead, try to buy electronic components that are made in the USA! Sure, there are a few high end chip manufacturers here, even some in Virginia. But for the small capacitors, resistors, LEDs, let me know if you ever see any made here.

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1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

Go ahead, try to buy electronic components that are made in the USA! Sure, there are a few high end chip manufacturers here, even some in Virginia. But for the small capacitors, resistors, LEDs, let me know if you ever see any made here.

Guess time to throw a tariff on them so it will bring the incentive back to make them here. ;) 

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4 hours ago, padgett said:

Where else could a retired guy have six cars & garages in a resort ?

In many countries,  you just have to be part of the elite ruling class.  Communism is only misery for the masses not everyone.  There are tiers in a communist society.  You just have to make sure you are on the right tier.  Difference is in the USA you can start on the bottom tier and end up on top.  Communist country much less if any chance of that happening.  The opportunity is here.  Unless you are just cursed with terrible luck. (I truly believe some people are) you can do it here.  You are not being held back. 

If one doesn't believe that read about this guy.  

George C. Boldt

An immigrant that started working in a Kitchen once he got off the boat. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Boldt

 

And what he built.  Makes our 6 cars and garages look pretty pathetic. 

0133c3c5c296426a90cf8f921edc4864.jpg

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Randy,

 

doubt his children perpetuated the estate very far.  15 mill is easily spent when paying taxes on all of those magnificent properties.

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Case in point. No one in my family has ever gone to college. Troubled youth, high school drop out. Joined navy to get away. GED "diploma". Married young, instant child. Dead end factory job. Bad luck? Nope, all me.

25 years of age decided to be a pilot. WTF was I thinking? Borrowed money. Worked hard. Was given a chance by a company that had doubts. Hired as young dumb co pilot. Low pay, long hours.

31 years later retired at 60 as chief pilot of fortune 500 company.

20 years later at age 80 enjoying my 100 acres of Pennsylvania with horses and more garages and resourses than I need. Still married to the girl that took a chance on me.

I can see the end of the tunnel and it,s all O.K.

Good luck?

Nope, it was all me and her. Only in America.

I pray we dont f**k it up.... bob

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3 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Go ahead, try to buy electronic components that are made in the USA!

 

Some products, even without our history of horrible (to us) trade deals, would have been and will still be imported. Permanent magnets for instance, China has the largest natural deposits of rare earth in the world. So we will still be subject to the import of DC motors and electrical components containing rare earth minerals. That doesn't mean we cannot make the other billion or so different products being unnecessarily imported.

13 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Nope, it was all me and her. Only in America.

I pray we dont f**k it up....

 

Yep, that's how it works. True freedom. In a system where you can't lose, you'll never win.

 

-Ron

 

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