Graham Man

PayPal is charging for Tariffs; 25% of the purchase

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I think American companies consider the China market very important, be it General Motors, Apple, etc.

 

China was growing their economy at something like 2.5 times the rate os the US. And with their population there is much more growth potential there than in the US.

 

 

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China was growing their economy at something like 2.5 times the rate os the US. And with their population there is much more growth potential there than in the US.

 

 

 

absolutely true, as long as their communist gov doesnt step in, then all bets are off. Happens every day over there. people go to jail and are never seen again........

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Mercer, I don't think the rhetoric "China is suffering greatly due to the US tariffs" holds any water, and is an unsubstantiated statement often made by the administration without any real evidence being provided. As well, there is no evidence any businesses of substance have changed their buying habits due to the tariffs. They will not change since the perception is that the tariff war is likely short term, and then it will be back to business as usual.

 

As for average incomes, my research indicates that average annual income for Chinese citizens is currently US$3000 ($9000 per family) in urban areas, and US$1000 ($3000 per family) in Rural areas, so I'm not sure where you arrive at $10K per capita per year (that would put household income at $US30K+). It is hard to find solid verifiable income data for all countries due to different currencies, methods of calculating tax and subsidy implications etc. However, a 2013 survey of the top 35 countries in the world had US average income at $43,600, Canada at $41,300, EU countries at typically $30K-$40K, and for comparison, Russia at $11.8K, and Mexico at $11,700 (35th in the world). The same report had China's average at US$6000, and India's at US$3000.  In the big picture, most reports show US average incomes growing, but when discounted for inflation, not much movement. I only provide this data to demonstrate that other than Canada and Europe (and perhaps some oil power houses like the Arab countries), the USA's trading partners are relatively poor, and not in much of a position to purchase US goods. I'm wrapping up my role in this subject, too many old car tasks await.

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5 hours ago, mercer09 said:

I know our Canadian friends dont enjoy hearing it, but it is fact. truth of the matter is, nobody cares unless its them.................

By the time Christmas comes there will only be one assembly plant each for Ford Chrysler & GM left in Canada. With a total of less than 125,000 people in part manufacturing and assembly for all of Canada in the auto industry. When they were renegotiating NAFTA I do not know where someone was getting all his facts from but not much of it was true. Just google and you will see the press is correct on their reporting. Canada is suffering a great deal more than the US in manufacturing. Check your facts!  

 

One example of automotive in Canada that will be gone by the end of the year. At one time, The Oshawa factory was one of the largest auto manufacturing facilities in the world, with two car assembly plants, a truck assembly plant, as well as parts production including Harrison radiators, AC Delco batteries (for both GM and other vehicle manufacturers) and America Axles. Between 1999 and 2019, it had won more quality and productivity awards than any other GM plant. Quality does not mean a thing when profit is involved almost all went to Mexico or China.  

             

 

Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)
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Errr last year more Cadillacs were sold in China than the US.

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my only point is that China's gov reports whatever they want. most often not the truth..............

 

folks, you are dealing with communists. believe what you want. I have no trust in China.

 

 

regarding the many condos with no inhabitants.....yes the gov got ahead of themselves in China and there are vast areas like this.

 

never said Canada is not affected- just that it is our fight and our decision in what we do and we are most often damned in our decisions.

 

nobody is ever happy having less then others. Our deficit at this point is insurmountable. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

LOL

 

on another note- nice rusty crusty Pierce on ebay for 19k or best offer. looks like fun!  not mine...........

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4 hours ago, mercer09 said:

my only point is that China's gov reports whatever they want. most often not the truth..............

 

folks, you are dealing with communists. believe what you want. I have no trust in China.

So actually we would never really know if they are paying the tariffs as they wouldn't report that it's hurting them.  

Of course they won't show you the poverty only the prosperity.  

Reminds me of that San Francisco Video from before the quake with all those new cars running around,  when in fact it was only a handful run over and over. 

Wouldn't surprise me if the Gov't bought the cars for upper level officials just to look like they were having good sales to all the newly rich citizens.  We would never know as they would only let favorable records be revealed and those may be "edited"

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I'd like to introduce the concept of unintended consequences to this thread.  The future will tell us if tariffs are good or bad for the US and the rest of the world.  All, I think, we know today is tariffs are charged and collected on certain imports from many countries, Canada included.  The US government is in trade negotiations with the Chinese and China buys soya beans from south America, not the American heartland.  History books will tell us if the US guessed the Chinese would boycott US beans or was it an unintended consequence.

 

For example, when an Archduke from Austria was assassinated in 1914, could the killer have known he would start WW1 and affect the world for the next 40 years.  I understand your discussion how trade tariffs affect your day to day purchases, I wonder how the world will look in 5, 10, or 20 years?

 

Regards, Gary

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Could use the Fisk and Gould method of economics: need more money, just crank up the printing presses.

 

Remember hearing that if France missed one more payment on WWI, we would own it.

 

What I am getting at is that there are some very creative accountants inside the beltway and nothing is sacred.

 

Florida is the only state I know of where when visibility is dramatically reduced and traffic slows it is illegal to turn your flashers on (except for white pickup trucks).

 

 

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

So actually we would never really know if they are paying the tariffs as they wouldn't report that it's hurting them. 

 

I HOPE one would know if the price you paid PayPal (to get back to the original thread) was 25% higher or not. If it is, guess who's paying for the tarriff.

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20 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

What does a new average vehicle cost in China, compared to a comparable model in the States?  Does it need to have all the safety features and emmissions ours have?  

 

According to our guide, the typical Chinese citizen will never own a car.

There is a waiting list just to get a drivers license, and even a longer waiting list for the vetting of ownership of a car.

There are lots of scooters, they even have their own lanes between the side walks and the main streets. There are low fences separating scooters from auto traffic on the main drags.

The main thoroughfares are mainly busses, trucks and taxis. Some regular looking family cars but WAY more scooters and pedestrians.

Taking the trains through the countryside we didn't see much happening. a few small villages, but the trains don't even slow down for them. They travel over 100 mph.

We went on one train that ran from downtown to the airport at somewhere in the 200 mph range.

Trains are pretty well packed and had airplane like service. And all quite clean and modern. 

 

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25 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

I HOPE one would know if the price you paid PayPal (to get back to the original thread) was 25% higher or not. If it is, guess who's paying for the tarriff.

So one needs to wonder though if they are charging 25 percent on the retail end more,  when we know it's the wholesale end that's getting a 25 % tariff levied , then who is to say that's not just a bit of greed on the sellers end and none of that 25% may be actually going to the tariff and being used strictly as a way to price gouge.  That wouldn't surprise me. Not like we have never seen it before.  Look at gas stations.  Hiccup somewhere in the world in gas supply and price goes up at the pump that day when they are still selling gas bought at a cheaper rate often days before.  

 

That makes me wonder about the whole electric car deal.  When there is usually only one supplier for the electric there is no competition.  Once the general populous has gone electric as they say,  what's to stop the suppliers from jacking the prices to recharge?  

With gas there is atleast some competition with independent stations. 

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)

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Scooters and bicycles as mentioned earlier along with a little US zing.  

 

E00CF9A7-A4E2-4389-9BAE-31990A765E22.jpeg

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In China westerners are typically not allowed to drive automobiles.  That was true when I was there and when my son was there in March.  You are driven to your destination either by cab which are mostly VW or by a hotel or company car.  Most times I traveled by cab or company minivan to the factory.  Like every city and every country there are areas of prosperity and areas waiting for prosperity to find them.  Most westerners stay in the better neighborhoods so their photos reflect that.  Out in the countryside you will find less signs of prosperity and those who hope it does not find them as they are not anxious to loose their way of life.

 

Best thing I can suggest is go there and see it for yourself.  One of my favorite memories was seeing the long lineup of customers waiting outside at the local KFC in Dongguan where I was working.  They had good reason to line up.  If you ever had chicken in a traditional Chinese restaurant you would make a beeline for a KFC and for its chicken with meat on the bone.  The chicken I was served in the traditional restaurant looked like it died from starvation.  After work a group of us would often go to the local Wal-Mart to buy some US snacks and to observe the shoppers looking for deals just like we do here.  I just could never warm up to the idea of buying food that was still moving or crawling as was possible in the Chinese Wal-Mart.  

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Wow I picked the wrong time to go "off the grid" for Thanksgiving.  As with most "good government ideas" I normally just try to live with them, as we all know history will pick the winners and losers.  My intention of the original post was just to inform.  I would be less upset if ebay just told you about the additional coming charges (maybe somewhere in extra fine print).

 

I hate to say it but ebay has found me parts I could never have ever hoped to find at a swap meet.  I have walked hours just to come up empty looking for Graham parts.  So yes I will pay the charge to get the parts, I just wanted it to be a visible charge, therefore the post.

 

Hope everyone had a safe, Happy Thanksgiving

 

PS If you want to see something incredible about China watch Top Gear Season 18 episode 1&2 on China (2012).  I was  amazed at the cities and construction, it is eye opening and some interesting cars.

 

https://www.topgear.com/videos/jeremy-clarkson/jeremy-and-james-china-part-12-series-18-episode-2

Edited by Graham Man (see edit history)
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Of coarse being a tourist I took most meals in a group.

A round table seating 15 or so with a HUGE lazy Susan in the middle.

I didn't care much for the food.

We stayed in fairly nice hotels and one could get a Gin for about the same as here in the mostly empty bar with bad service..

Beer was cheap and came in large bottles, might have been liters, but it didn't take very many to make a six pack.

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Neighborhood repair garage, this keeps the thread automotive themed.

 

 

 

B1C25680-8050-4347-A3B4-D324AAA755BC.jpeg

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I like that pic Terry.

Not to get to far off subject. (Like PayPal on a antique auto forum).

Here's a couple of gas stations in Laos.

They use the pop bottles to measure.

 

 

 

IMGP8602.JPG

IMGP8603.JPG

IMGP8604.JPG

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)
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When the country in question was Japan some 50 years ago, a close friend, now departed, used to say "They are not out-smarting us, we are out-dumbing them!"

 

Lots of possibilities in this discussion, but the mentioned Global Shipping Policy of ebay is....................well, unmentionable among gentlemen!

 

Of course, the answer to getting the tariff on Chinese made products, is to, when possible, buy non-Chinese made products. We have been in the retail (and wholesale) market for old cars for 50 years, and have not sold one single item produced in China. It costs more, but if one is adamant, it can be done!

 

Jon.

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2 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

So one needs to wonder though if they are charging 25 percent on the retail end more,  when we know it's the wholesale end that's getting a 25 % tariff levied , then who is to say that's not just a bit of greed on the sellers end and none of that 25% may be actually going to the tariff and being used strictly as a way to price gouge.  That wouldn't surprise me. Not like we have never seen it before.  Look at gas stations.  Hiccup somewhere in the world in gas supply and price goes up at the pump that day when they are still selling gas bought at a cheaper rate often days before. 

 

Seriously? You really think the wholesaler effectively dropped their prices 25%? News flash. The wholesale price is the same as it was before.

 

Tariffs are paid at import. Whoever imports the product pays the tariff. That's just another cost that gets passed onto the end buyer, so the American consumer ultimately pays it. And frankly, WHO CARES whether the wholesaler or the importer physically pays the tariff to the feds?  If the retail price is 25% higher than it was before, the end buyer is ultimately paying it.

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Not the wholesaler.  Probably incorrect terminology.  Whoever made the part,  so the manufacturer,  might have dropped the finished product price.  Goes back to the $100 item is only worth $100.  If no one will pay a dime over $100 then they will not sell and hte factory will shutter or have to find a new product,  so if the factory can find a way to make them a little cheaper or charge a little less,  the orders keep on coming in.  

Think about it.  If the cost of a cheap Chinese wrench reaches that of a snap on,  They will have to make them cheaper to fall back into that cheap market,  or the former customers will have to pay more.  If the customer has to pay Snap On pricer,  they I'm pretty darn sure they won't be buying the off brand Chinese wrench. 

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2 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Seriously? You really think the wholesaler effectively dropped their prices 25%? News flash. The wholesale price is the same as it was before.

 

Tariffs are paid at import. Whoever imports the product pays the tariff. That's just another cost that gets passed onto the end buyer, so the American consumer ultimately pays it. And frankly, WHO CARES whether the wholesaler or the importer physically pays the tariff to the feds?  If the retail price is 25% higher than it was before, the end buyer is ultimately paying it.

 

I think what he was saying is that they're apparently collecting a 25% tariff on the retail price rather than on the wholesale price that they paid on the item when it was imported. A small but potentially significant distinction, and if they're using tariffs as an excuse to nick customers for a few extra bucks (25% of whatever the price difference is between wholesale and retail), well, that's not really cool. Passing along the actual tariff costs to consumers is to be expected, but hiding behind the tariff to pad your bottom line a bit more seems unsavory. It's a bit of a shell game and I don't really blame them, since the added cost will probably hurt sales of just about any item and their profits will be down, but Randy's point that they're charging 25% of retail instead of 25% of wholesale does have some merit.

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19 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

If the retail price is 25% higher than it was before, the end buyer is ultimately paying it.

 

Except the retail price is usually only a fraction of the actual cost to buy/produce/resell the item. The 25% tariff does not, or should not, affect the total cost of delivering the goods into the hand of the buyer. It does not take into account overhead, employee wages, cost of money, transportation, inventory and carrying costs. A retailer that raises the price of almost anything by 25% and says "tariff" is gouging........Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

 

Except the retail price is usually only a fraction of the actual cost to buy/produce/resell the item. The 25% tariff does not, or should not, affect the total cost of delivering the goods into the hand of the buyer. It does not take into account overhead, employee wages, cost of money, transportation, inventory and carrying costs. A retailer that raises the price of almost anything by 25% and says "tariff" is gouging........Bob

 

Rule of thumb: the retail price is at least 2X the wholesale price, and the wholesale price is at least 2X the manufacturing cost. Where the 25% is applied obviously depends on where manufacturing and assembly takes place. You are correct that if we are only talking about imported raw materials like steel, with the actual fabrication and assembly done in the US, the actual "cost" of the tariff sould only apply to the costs of these raw materials. And yes, if the 25% is being applied to the full retail price in that situation, someone is gouging.

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