Graham Man

PayPal is charging for Tariffs; 25% of the purchase

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1 hour ago, Gunsmoke said:

The thread did identify a challenge for those of us in the Canadian market place trying to afford to restore an old car. Ignoring the issue of tariffs (which would add another burden), if I buy a part in Illinois for $100 and ship it for $20 to a friend's place in Maine for pick-up, my cost is US$120 or $160Can (current exchange rate about 33%)(allowing no cost for pick-up, I have a friend who passes thru there regularly). If I ship the part direct from Illinois to me, cost is $100+$40 shipping or $140. Exchange adds $47 bringing total to $187Can, and then a further 15% Fed/Prov sales tax is added at this end, ($28Can), so landed cost is close to $215Can. So when I shop eBay for example (who between them and paypal add another 10% or so ) I always double the price listed to reflect all the associated costs. Stops me from being shocked when I get my invoice from Paypal. The overall result - restoring an old car is becoming outrageously expensive, and due to artificial cost burdens. Our exchange rate with the US$ has bounced between par and -35% over the past 10+ years due to currency exchange manipulation by big investors, and has most recently dropped due to the low price of oil, one of Canada's major resource exports. But I'm still having fun, can't take it with you.

Buy from sellers that sell directly to Canada personally without the whole global shipping BS. Buy multiple items as well to save on shipping.  I have several customers in Canada I ship hundreds of dollars,  sometimes over $1000 worth of brochures at a time and this is in a two week period. (same ones that are currently building piles now)  That's the only way to get a deal.  Again if we hadn't been abused in the shipping department for years we would be able to ship it to you north of the border more reasonably.  

The whole roller coaster ride of currency value against the US dollar has been that way for years and nothing will change.  The fact your dollar is weaker against ours and much of the world's means something is headed in the right direction for us.  You only have a strong dollar when your country is doing well,  not bleeding jobs and place in the market. 

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58 minutes ago, C Carl said:

Sometimes very high quality tools do turn up at garage and estate sales. But, there is a lot of overhead shopping that way. Oh for the good old days of the Boeing Surplus retail store here ! THAT  was real hard to beat ! I would like to take this opportunity to salute our fine Northern neighbors. Can not imagine any country in the world having such a great friend across any border. Whether you buy anything from here or not !      -    Carl 

You can get some great deals on used tools on Craigslist and Facebook.  Bought a nice Matco tool box/ Cart for $500.  They retail over $1000.  Lots of toolboxes and sets of tools posted.  Guys always moving out of the area or changing occupations looking to sell their tools.  Usually Matco , Snap On MAC etc.  Lots of Husky, and Craftsmen stuff even cheaper. 

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On 11/29/2019 at 4:10 PM, Graham Man said:

so these are US sellers adding the 25% to the purchase of the product.

This is so wrong.  The 25% tariff is on the cost of the goods not the retail price.  I don't know of any retailer selling normal priced goods at cost.  The cost of the item is the only cost to the seller taxed by the tariff.  The shipping cost, marketing and additional packaging as well as US warehousing and administrative costs are not taxed by the tariff, but are costs to the seller.  To try to collect an additional 25% on the sales price is an outright scam.

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The Americans manufacturers in China bring their products from China and pay the tariffs to the  US authorities and then passes on the taxes to the consumers here . Who is fooling Whom ? China is not paying a dime for sure.

Edited by Ronnie
Removed political statement. (see edit history)
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It's nice to see a topic about government, economics and tariffs can be discussed without throwing politics into it.  I hope this topic continues on that path.

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1 hour ago, trini said:

The Americans manufacturers in China bring their products from China and pay the tariffs to the  US authorities and then passes on the taxes to the consumers here . Who is fooling Whom ? China is not paying a dime for sure.

Some of the manufactures have lowered the price they charge for the products so that essentially they can be sold for the same price to the reseller.  Effectively they are paying the tariff that way. (better to produce and sell at a lower profit  than to not sell at all and have to shutter the factory)   I still say some items , especially non essential ones,  have a certain sell point.  Above that no one will buy them.  So they have to maintain that price level. 

It's really no different every time the post office raises postal rates.  My 10.00 item in your hands sells for say 4 you pay 6 in shipping and have the item.  If they raise their rates to 7 you will only bid 3 to get it.  If everyone bids only 3 figuring they are paying the same shipping as you then the new selling point is 3.  Since it's a non essential item I can ask 4 all day long,  it's still a $10 item in your lap so you wont buy it for 4.  You will wait until I am hungry and willing to take the 3.  I see it all the time with what I sell.  Which makes it hard to buy. Every time Ebay pay pal or the USPS decides to give themselves a raise it means my bottom line goes up and my profit goes down,  because no one pays more,  I just get less. 

I simplified numbers.  You can add any number in you want but I actually do sell alot of 3.00 items with 6.00 shipping so I walk away with a buck after every one gets their cut.  I don't survive on these,  but use the smaller percentage of good performing items which are harder to come by to offset all the duds.  At the end of the day though,  usually almost everything is sold.  That's why I do it that way.  I don't sit around with all my museum exhibits like other vendors.  I sell it and move on.  In the end i probably make more but it's more through volume than individual high sales.  Yes more work,  but being I'm late to the game,  I don't have a huge hoard to work from.  I buy around $4,000 a month on average in literature to resell.  I've spent as much as $15,000 one month. 

Sometimes I wonder if I'm getting ahead.  

I can honestly say with all the free trade and Items I have shipped around the world,  I have never ever shipped a car part or a piece of literature and that's over 10,000 pieces I sell a year to China in the last over 10 years I have been doing this. Honestly with all the old cars in Mexico,  I ship at most 1 item or order of 1 or two items to Mexico a year. 

Canada is my biggest importer, followed by European Countries, then Australia. Maybe one item a year to South America and a random item or two to Africa or the Middle East a year.  

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

Honestly with all the old cars in Mexico,  I ship at most 1 item or order of 1 or two items to Mexico a year. 

Canada is my biggest importer, followed by European Countries, then Australia.

 

So how many non-English publications do you normally have for sale? It seems English speaking countries are your best customers, I would say "that is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer".😁

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I remember sometimes in the 1980's Dan Rather on the 630 CBS news mentioned  the price of an Arrow shirt made in China costing  7 dollars and was selling by Macy or some other store for 40 dollars. The store had outsourced the work. The point he was trying to make is taking advantage of poor workers slave like labour and making  a huge profit. Profit is an indecent word in some quarters. He was referring to the huge spread in profit. The US consumer did not benefit. Next time you go on vacation and get an artifact at a very low price, the end game is somebody wins and somebody looses. That is reality. That is how the world spins.   When greed comes through  the front door ethics and honesty flies through the window.  

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Sometimes we cannot see the forest for the trees. Facts: The US Economy is today the strongest in the world, and appears to be well positioned to stay there. The unemployment rate is at an historic low. As a very wealthy country, it's citizens have more discretionary money to spend than any other country on the planet (the old car hobby for example?). As a result of it's great wealth, it is a "consumption" country, and it's population buys more goods and services from other countries than other countries can afford to buy from the USA. This imbalance of wealth between countries is the primary reason for several things: It causes the USA to run a large trade deficit world-wide (not China's fault, not France's fault, not Mexico's fault). Because the standard of living is so high, wages are high generally compared to the rest of the world, and so over the past 50-60 years, companies have sought ways to manufacture goods off-shore in order to keep American consumers satisfied with prices.

 

But the resulting economic model is still a very strong one. A company buys a well made dress shirt in China/Vietnam/Bangladesh for $5, and it eventually retails for $100. The company and it's wholesalers employ warehousers, stockers, shippers, truckers, retail sales people and managers to sell the shirt, never mind the property and buildings they develop with the profit. In a nutshell that is the nature of the modern economy in North America. The "what some may call" menial tasks are out-sourced, and the rest of the margins are on-shore. It is a clear solid global economic model, being used in all western industrialized countries. Anyone advocating returning all these menial jobs to the USA is blowing wind. No one would want a return to sweat shops.

 

The trade war begun with China is senseless, as the economic model running the USA is not one China is creating. It is created by American business interests, and it is a good one. The biggest problems faced in the USA are not of China's making. There is a huge wealth gap, the top 1% of population control 90% of the wealth. China has not caused that. Health care costs 3x the cost of health care in any other industrialized country and some people have no coverage. China has not caused that. Deaths by gun is 50-100 times higher than most industrialized countries, China has not caused that. More citizens reside in jails than any other developed country. Not China's fault.

 

My point is that China has become an easy target because they do have some unacceptable trade practices. However, solving those matters (intellectual property, currency manipulation) requires a global partnership approach, and not unilateral action. America is a great country, the envy of the world in many respects, but it needs to begin respecting other countries and their rights and challenges, and return to being a full partner in the world affairs.

 

 

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We have always had a "different" model. My favourite is the antics of Jim Fisk and Jay Gould in the 19th. Personally, I have price points. For me the most common is $100. I buy dress shirts at 3 for $100. My current cell phone was $100. When interesting technology hits $100 delivered I usually buy.

 

This black Friday I splurged and bought a 75" UHD HDR 4k more alphabet smart TV to replace my decade-old 55" not so smart Sony that will go into the guest room & a lot because it has a headphone jack: six bucks. Sold out almost immediately. Bought from my desktop. Supposedly not made in China.

 

SOA for consumers right now is 82", expect 100" within five years but this is "enough" for now. Just add a recliner and a cat.

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10 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

So how many non-English publications do you normally have for sale? It seems English speaking countries are your best customers, I would say "that is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer".😁

Actually I have alot of foreign literature on occasion and most of that english or foreign language stay in the country.   I rarely (Except for some French pieces to Canada) sell foreign language pieces to places overseas.  They usually buy the American version in English. Makes sense.  It's easier to buy a brochure in your own language from your own country.  You would buy in a different language from another country as you would rarely have them available in your country. 

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The problem with the US being the partner is we are never perceived as the partner,  We are perceived as the gullible sap with an open check book.  Well we used to be.  I think the US does more than it's share around the world. Natural disaster in any country results in instant aid from our country.  We protect many countries with our military so those Gov'ts don't have to foot the bill for a full military.  Without our presence those countries would have been taken over by their neighbors.  We might be the wealthiest country but we spend it to help others all around the world.   We are also wealthy because of that freedom our founding Father's fought for so we could forge a strong country that fosters innovation with the least possible intrusion from the Govt.  The freedom is sometimes hard for others from other countries to understand and why our country has gotten to the position it's in.  It's from the fostering of enterprise not stifling it like some Govt's around the world have done. 

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China has been subsidizing their manufacturers to undercut US manufactured products for years. They can uncut a lot of US businesses that way for the cost of a military tank. It is a strategy. And one that has been working very well. The price can be made even sweeter if the retailer agrees not to buy US made products. That's where the professional purchasing agent sells out.

Just imagine spreading out the cost of two or three jet fighters to American businesses to help pay for unfunded federal mandates, there'd be chaos in Washington of that idea. Looks fine in China.

 

The last President put a 35% tax on  Asian made tires, not that newsworthy, I guess. Not many knew.

 

There has been a war going on for quite a few years, ask the furniture companies in North Carolina.

 

US imports going into China have faced a 75% tariff. Our companies working there know. Maybe not so much of the public.

 

Anyone remember the stories about Detroit converting to build war equipment. Detroit is not so capable today. Maybe a 36 month lease on a Hyundai tank?

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Chinese workers are underpaid and would never be able to afford American goods.  From my son’s trip there in March for work.  The rickshaw and straw hat days are long gone.

 

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Edited by TerryB (see edit history)
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I was in China a couple of years ago and was surprised at many unfinished apartment looking buildings.

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33 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I was in China a couple of years ago and was surprised at many unfinished apartment looking buildings.

 

Central planning......bob

 

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16 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I was in China a couple of years ago and was surprised at many unfinished apartment looking buildings.

I was there in 2001-2005 for work.  I was transferring technology to build color TV tubes to a factory the company I worked for had purchased from a Chinese company.  The big idea that was causing problems was that the housing that the old company provided to the workers at little or no charge under the typical communist method of operating would go away and workers would now have to buy and pay for it.  Mortgages were unheard of and the idea of paying for 20 to 30 years for a house or apartment was hard to understand after living so long under the communist way of doing things.  This info came from the English version of a Chinese newspaper I had each day at the hotel along with a lot of Chinese views on the western world.  The big apartment buildings next to the factory where I was were mostly vacant as the transfer of ownership to the workers was going on.

 

The photos I posted were from Shanghai where my son was meeting with potential vendors for his employer.  He has been to South Korea, Germany, and Thailand for similar meetings.  Manufacturing and supplier relations are global undertakings for most every company today.

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China , like the USA and most countries has a wide gap in incomes between the wealthy and the poor. 1% of Chinese population owns over 2/3 of all private wealth. While cities like Shanghai are relatively prosperous, they do not reflect the reality of China as a whole. Per-capita annual income in cities is about US$3000, or $9000 per family of 3, and in rural areas it is $1000 per capita or $3000 per family of 3. Having said that, their governance/economic model is so different from ours, that comparing incomes is not of much value. Their economy is not based on consumption, but rather is based on production. Yes, easier do do in an authoritarian country. While this overall topic has endless paths to follow, and a few rabbit holes to go down, the reality is that China is so vastly different from western countries in its model of governance and life style, that little is gained by superficial ponderings.

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27 minutes ago, Gunsmoke said:

Per-capita annual income in cities is about US$3000, or $9000 per family of 3, and in rural areas it is $1000 per capita or $3000 per family of 3.

Hard to believe they will consume an y of the high end products in large scale with these income levels.  I'm too lazy to research the US incomes,  I would have to think we are at a minimum 10 times as much.   What does a new average vehicle cost in China, compared to a comparable model in the States?  Does it need to have all the safety features and emmissions ours have?  

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Regardless what we say or discuss the fact remains North America is the land of 'milk and honey" People from all over the world spend years as refugees in different countries before finally reaching their goals Canada or the US. The US is the first country to jump in the fray to help a fellow country in trouble. It is a daunting task to bridge the gap between the rich and poor countries. As long as there is "poor' there is going to be "rich"

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39 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Hard to believe they will consume an y of the high end products in large scale with these income levels.  I'm too lazy to research the US incomes,  I would have to think we are at a minimum 10 times as much.   What does a new average vehicle cost in China, compared to a comparable model in the States?  Does it need to have all the safety features and emmissions ours have?  

I don’t think there are China only spec F150s.  Sure looks like a US vehicle.  Price can depend on tariffs and shipping which seems to be what started this topic.  Most Americans have not seen the radical changes China has gone through and the wealth they are gaining which is my reason for the pics I posted here.

 

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Edited by TerryB (see edit history)

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Wiki says the USA with about 340M people has 275M vehicles, 0.85 vehicles per person, more by sheer # and ratio than any country in the world. China with 1.8B people has 250M vehicles, or 0.18 vehicle per person, or about 20% of the ratio in USA. The vast majority of Chinese families cannot afford a vehicle at all, of any type. As stated previously, trying to make any kind of comparison between the lifestyle average Chinese citizens have versus average citizens of Western industrialized countries is fraught with pitfalls. Similarly, India, with 1.3B people has only 22M vehicles, a ratio of about .02 vehicles per capita, and less than 2% of the ratio for USA.  The 2 countries combined have over 3B people and not as many cars as the USA. So I don't anticipate Ford/GM/Chrysler are doing much sales or promotion in those markets.

Edited by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

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China is not paying a dime for sure.

 

 

but there economy has suffered greatly over the last year from our tariffs.

 

I have a few chinese friends and we talk.

 

Randy, the per capita income in china is now over 10k a yr. We are still stagnant in the mid 50s.............

China was at just 4k about 10 yrs ago. We havent moved in several decades, because we gave it all away. I know our Canadian friends dont enjoy hearing it, but it is fact. truth of the matter is, nobody cares unless its them.................

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