Graham Man

PayPal is charging for Tariffs; 25% of the purchase

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Might want to check your Paypal account.  Just found out the sellers are charging my account the 25% tariff in a separate billing.  I seldom if ever purchase from oversea sources, so these are US sellers adding the 25% to the purchase of the product., charging with a separate billing..without my permission or knowledge (so until I checked) I would have never known about the charges, mine were several hundreds of dollars.

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PayPal is frequently spoofed. An email saying "you have been charged..." from PayPal" will direct you to the spammer's site where you enter your password. I'm not saying that is what happened to you, but worth checking.

Edited by MochetVelo (see edit history)
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41 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

these are US sellers adding the 25% to the purchase of the product

 

huh?

 

US sellers adding a tariff because the parts they sell come form overseas and they pay a tariff? But they don't add the tariff to the price. They pass it on to you as if you were the importer?

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9 minutes ago, MochetVelo said:

PayPal is frequently spoofed. An email saying "you have been charged..." from PayPal" will direct you to the spammer's site where you enter your password. I'm not saying that is what happened to you, but worth checking.

 

First, this. 

 

1 minute ago, mike6024 said:

huh?

 

US sellers adding a tariff because the parts they sell come form overseas and they pay a tariff? But they don't add the tariff to the price. They pass it on to you as if you were the importer?

 

Second, you have to realize that this is exactly what tariffs do. China is most certainly NOT paying them; the Americans buying products made in China are. That means most retailers are passing it along directly to you, the consumer. I suspect that the seller in this case had a sudden and dramatic rise in the cost of his products due to tariffs and wanted to make sure his customers knew it wasn't him gouging them but rather the idiot government haphazardly playing roulette with the economy. These new tariffs essentially amount to a $1000 tax increase on every household in the US at this point, never mind how much of YOUR money is being used to bail out the farmers being buried by them (currently at twice the auto bail out with 0% chance of payback, unlike the auto bail out which has been paid back 100% plus interest). What, you expected everyone except the consumer to just suck it up and eat a 25% pay cut? LOL!

 

So yes, it is essentially the seller passing the cost along to you as if you were the importer. Would you rather they have simply raised the price 25% without telling you why? Would you ever shop there again if they did that? At least this way you know where to aim your ire.

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OP was not real clear, and did not mention eBay so lets assume they are not involved. Prior to the Prez slapping duty on Chinese imports, a seller who bought a product from China and is re-selling it, adds his overhead and profit (say 100% markup), and any state taxes (say 10%), and that's your price (plus shipping if applicable). So previously, an imported $100 item is marked up to $200, plus $20 state tax for end price of $220 + shipping.

 

Now with the new duty slapped on,  the $100 item is subject to 25% duty entering the country, so, the import cost to the seller is now $125. The seller adds his 100% O&P bringing his selling price to $250, and state tax of $25 makes your price $275, + shipping, a $55 increase. While the administration bellows that  "China is paying the tariffs", we all know who is paying.

 

Sellers have been put in a very tough spot with this "tariff war". While they want to serve their customers fairly, the whole tariff thing has been haphazardly applied, in jumps with little or no notice, and any who have online or paper catalogues have a hard time adjusting their price matrix. 

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4 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Second, you have to realize that this is exactly what tariffs do. China is most certainly NOT paying them; the Americans buying products made in China are. That means most retailers are passing it along directly to you, the consumer. I suspect that the seller in this case had a sudden and dramatic rise in the cost of his products due to tariffs and wanted to make sure his customers knew it wasn't him gouging them but rather the idiot government haphazardly playing roulette with the economy. These new tariffs essentially amount to a $1000 tax increase on every household in the US at this point, never mind how much of YOUR money is being used to bail out the farmers being buried by them (currently at twice the auto bail out with 0% chance of payback, unlike the auto bail out which has been paid back 100% plus interest). What, you expected everyone except the consumer to just suck it up and eat a 25% pay cut? LOL!

 

So yes, it is essentially the seller passing the cost along to you as if you were the importer. Would you rather they have simply raised the price 25% without telling you why? Would you ever shop there again if they did that? At least this way you know where to aim your ire.

 

That's a weird response you wrote. Yes I expect the tariff to be incorporated into the price. And if I don't like the total price I don't buy it.

7 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

What, you expected everyone except the consumer to just suck it up and eat a 25% pay cut? LOL!

 

You trying to imply I'm stupid? Really? LOL

 

 

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The 4 drawer tool cart I bought at Harbor Freight 6 or so months ago for $107, is now on sale at the lowest possible price for $149. You can';t get it for less than $149 now. OK I don't need another so I don't care.

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Neat way to extract (exploit) an extra 25% from the buyer and try to shift the blame. Kind of like the old fuel surcharge dodge added on by sellers that never bought a gallon of fuel. Personally I'll happily pony up extra bucks if it helps keep jobs here for our workers and helps reduce sweat shops else where...........Bob

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15 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

You trying to imply I'm stupid? Really? LOL

 

No, I certainly didn't mean to imply that. I'm genuinely sorry if I did.

 

I was trying to make a sarcastic statement to emphasize my point. Despite protestations to the contrary, the consumer is the ONLY person paying the tariffs and expecting it to be otherwise isn't reasonable. It's the same as if whatever raw material that goes into the construction of a given widget was suddenly and overnight 25% more expensive. Manufacturers either have to raise prices to pay for it or go out of business, so they pass that increase along to their buyers, who, in turn, pass it along to the consumer. The consumer ALWAYS pays for it in the end.

 

Unfortunately, arbitrarily raising prices has the problem of pissing off the consumer (and you are pissed off, are you not?). In this seller's case, they separated the price of the tariff from the product, which I actually think is a reasonable course of action. The product has not gotten any more expensive but the cost of putting it in your hands has. They are making sure that you know they are not doing it willy-nilly to pad their own bottom line, which would surely result in even more angry consumers. It's a calculated risk designed to mitigate the effects of something over which they have no control. 


I ask again: if they had simply raised this thing's price 25% without telling you why, would you still have bought it?

 

And how long until all the other sellers of this widget raise their prices the same 25%? Not very long at all, I suspect, so cross-shopping will probably not save you money in the long run. At least these guys are being up-front about why the price is going up...

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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I think that the OP is quite misleading in implying that PayPal is responsible for the additional charge, when the origin is the seller.  PayPal is quite clear in showing you the total before you commit to the transaction.

 

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24 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I ask again: if they had simply raised this thing's price 25% without telling you why, would you still have bought it?

 

 

Let me ask you the flip side of this question.

If a seller had reduced this things price by 25% and said by buying it you would be committing third would workers to slave wages, 14 hour days, and contributing to US workers losing their jobs would you have cheerfully bought it?

An honest answer, please.................Bob

 

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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It sounds like we may be talking about US based sellers using the "Global Shipping" and the item gets sent to you from China and you get billed the tariff as if it were a tax. And you also pay sales tax. Here are some posts on the topic:

 

I would never buy from US sellers offering Global Shipping---someone is sure making big money!!

 

Since eBay's introduction of the Global Shipping Program, US-based sellers participated the program. On buyer's end, the check-out now comes with shipping rates and Import Charge.

 

My question is where does the money go if the recipient country does not charge import tax for the item purchased? Many countries do NOT charge Import Charge for used items or items priced under certain amount. For example, South Korean Customs does NOT charge import tax on used items or item price declared as under US$140 (including the shipping). Yet, the automated eBay check-out forces the buyer to pay when check-out. And the item is not charged upon delivery. Exactly where does the money go?

 

If eBay cannot guarantee accurate and fair system, then it should offer Import Charge as an option. This systematic flaw discourages international buyers.

 

Please advise. Thank you.

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OK please understand the Trump concept: we used to manufacture everything in the US. The the vagaries of economics made it cheaper to buy the same product mostly from the orient. Adding the tarrif is designed:

1) to charge the same fees other countries do on our exported products

2) make building the same things in the US more cost effective again, opening closed factories, and increasing employment

 

Personally am bothered that we sell most of the Cadillacs (that were designed by Europeans) in China. and are making many parts in Mexico (NAFTA ?)

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Almost every country has abused the US on trade tarrifs for years.  Our new tarrifs are actually just leveling the field.  Sme reason we were negotiating a better rate on the US position in the world shipping program.  Seems every country was taking advantage of the US again.  Wonder how you can buy an item delivered in the States by the USPS from China for less including the cost of the item, than you could actually ship it in the States even to the next town over? That's why people could ship from Canada for rates closest and even less than our domestic rates. 

I've heard it over and over from customers all over the world (I export alot) Why is shipping so High?  I can send it to you for half as much or less.  

Like it or not,  it's about time things were taken care of or atleast attempted to be instead of just passed down the road while businesses like the Post office head deeper in the red.  There are many other reasons for that as well,  but all the cheap imports shipped by the USPS as part of the negotiated position in the shipping program which is far from in our favor,  subsidized by higher postal rates for those in this country to send domestically , certainly has to be one big elephant in the room. 

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6 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Almost every country has abused the US on trade tarrifs for years.  Our new tarrifs are actually just leveling the field.  Sme reason we were negotiating a better rate on the US position in the world shipping program.  Seems every country was taking advantage of the US again.  Wonder how you can buy an item delivered in the States by the USPS from China for less including the cost of the item, than you could actually ship it in the States even to the next town over? That's why people could ship from Canada for rates closest and even less than our domestic rates. 

I've heard it over and over from customers all over the world (I export alot) Why is shipping so High?  I can send it to you for half as much or less.  

Like it or not,  it's about time things were taken care of or atleast attempted to be instead of just passed down the road while businesses like the Post office head deeper in the red.  There are many other reasons for that as well,  but all the cheap imports shipped by the USPS as part of the negotiated position in the shipping program which is far from in our favor,  subsidized by higher postal rates for those in this country to send domestically , certainly has to be one big elephant in the room. 

 

They don't call the US "Uncle Sap" for nothing................Bob

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To paraphrase Bob's comment up above, how many of you are willing to pay significantly more for the things you use all the time? Buy tools at Harbor Freight? Clothes at Walmart? Hardware at Home Depot? Tires? Consumer electronics? Furniture? You want production and jobs in America (I certainly do!), well, it'll cost you more. Probably quite a bit more. Fair trade-off? If you've complained about the cost of that new tool you needed or your last set of tires, you're part of the problem that tariffs are intended to cure, but maybe the cure is worse than the disease.

 

I agree that tariffs might appear to be leveling the playing field at a glance, but do you really think that tariffs will force industries to relocate back to the US? Will they close expensive factories staffed with $2/day labor and come back here and build expensive new ones to staff with Americans who won't even get out of bed for less than $20/hour? Especially when they can pass the tariff costs on to the consumer who will have no choice but to pay them? Given the costs involved, even with tariffs, it's probably STILL cheaper to build overseas. The only reason you're feeling the price increase now is because we've gotten so used to dirt cheap Chinese stuff. You can't have it both ways.

 

Ultimately, making stuff in America or forcing tariffs on other countries will only cost YOU more in the end. It doesn't punish anyone. That's the net effect. Is that REALLY what you want? If your goal is to raise the standard of living for people in the US, making everything more expensive probably isn't the way to do it.

 

You may also be surprised by how few things are actually made here. Maybe the factories move back, but how long until they're up and running? Years. And even if things are made here, are they made with stuff you can buy here? For example, China appears to be the world's only place to buy the primary ingredients in the batteries powering the laptop computer you're using right this moment. The US doesn't have much Bauxite (which is where aluminum comes from) in-house (even Vietnam has 30x more than we do), so we import a lot of it. No amount of tariffs will cure that kind of supply-side issue. And there's no way other countries will ever say, "OK, OK, you win, we give up!" That's not how it works. Tariffs only escalate, they don't de-escalate. There are plenty of other countries with rapidly industrializing populations who will happily buy and consume all that aluminum we've tarriffed out of our supply chain.

 

And, as a secondary concern, by putting tariffs on things coming into our country, the countries that buy our goods will start shopping for new sources with friendlier partners. Remember those soy farmers who used to sell like 60% of their soy beans to China? Yeah, China's buying those from Brazil and Argentina now and they're getting all the money that used to be ours. Even if those tariffs go away, do you honestly think China will switch back and hope that we don't get taciturn someday and re-enact the tariffs? No, they aren't coming back. Sorry, farmers, you're screwed for the semi-long-term, and maybe forever. Hope Americans REALLY like soy beans so 350 million of us will eat as many soy beans as 1.6 billion Chinese people because we can't keep giving you free taxpayer money forever.

 

This is a poorly-thought-out policy enacted by people who don't understand even a little bit of how economics work, people who honestly believe that the government of China is paying the tariffs and suffering for it. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of how global trade works and it won't be solved by merely making one country's stuff more expensive. We didn't become the biggest and best by only being the biggest and best--we were mostly the only game in town. It isn't 1958 anymore and if we keep giving away our economic advantages, we'll keep sliding backward instead of moving forward. All those little countries that are nipping at our heels will start taking bigger bites out of our legs until we fall over and they run right past. Yeah, I know stigginit feels great, but it's nothing more than cutting off our nose to spite our face and everybody loses when that happens. Trade isn't a zero-sum game where someone has to lose in order for someone else to win. 

 

Yet here we are.

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1 hour ago, padgett said:

2) make building the same things in the US more cost effective again, opening closed factories, and increasing employment

 

I'm pretty sure that adding an arbitrary 25% tax to imported goods doesn't make US industry any more "cost effective". It actually has the opposite effect - now there is no reason for US manufacturing to become more efficient to lower costs. This is just taxing and paying welfare by a different name.

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This topic quickly turned into a political argument and should be shut down while we are all still friends. Doesn't seem like what should be discussed on an old car forum.

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15 minutes ago, Jim Bollman said:

This topic quickly turned into a political argument and should be shut down while we are all still friends. Doesn't seem like what should be discussed on an old car forum.

Discussing the price of car parts and tools is a verboten topic on an old car forum???

Friends that have a civil discussion, as this has been, is a danger???

I respecfully disagree......bob

 

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Farmers will have to rotate another crop in than soy beans.  Also with the population growing the world needs food.  That won't change.  What China buys from someone else,  those countries that won''t be able to buy from the suppliers now selling to China will have to get else where. Seems we then have a surplus and will be the one with the goods that the others need. Oil and food are probably the Highest priorities imported.  Water of course as well,  but usually you don't import too much of your water.  Then raw materials for production come in next.  Finally the finished product comes in and things needed to sustain life rate highest above trinkets from the dollar general or Harbor freight on that list.  

So we will have to pay a little more for our Imported new parts (by the way many countries are eating some of the tarrif on their profit margin as a $200 item is still a $200 item.  If no body will pay a dime more than $200 for an item like our old car parts that are reproduced and not needed like food or medical items then none sell at the new $240 rate and the price has to be dropped back to $200 to realize sales to make new orders. ). What many don't realize is that a 25 % tarrif on some $100 items  (what you pay at the store for them) is actually only an extra $2.50 as it's on the cost of the item at the manufacturing exporting end $10,  not the retail price often hundreds percent more than the manufacturing cost, the $100 price you see at the store.  So if they are charging $125 for the $100 item ,  they are sticking it to you and profiting even more all while blaming it on the tarrif.   

It also shifts manufacturing away from a nation that has constantly abused us and our Intelectual property to ones who are willing to be more fair both in tarrifs and in respect for our copyrights and patents.  As much as people complain about the US we are still a very desirable nation to trade with. We export alot of dollars every year.

 

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It,s a chicken and egg question. 

What is better, lower prices but fewer of our people working who can afford them, thus shifting the public burden to the fewer who are working?

Or higher prices creating sustainable domestic profits to pay for increased jobs and workers who can now afford those goods, thus relieving the public burden.......bob

 

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Yes, I agree regarding the relevance of this topic and the civility with which it is being discussed. Some is a little difficult for me to wrap my head around, BUT : I really don't think we can beat the clever Chi-coms and their long term planning by taking them on solo, and the only weapon being used is tariffs.   -    Carl 

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10 minutes ago, C Carl said:

Yes, I agree regarding the relevance of this topic and the civility with which it is being discussed. Some is a little difficult for me to wrap my head around, BUT : I really don't think we can beat the clever Chi-coms and their long term planning by taking them on solo, and the only weapon being used is tariffs.   -    Carl 

Possibly and most likely true,  but no sense in continuing down a path we know isn't working.  

I could never figure how free trade would work with nations that had a standard of living and wage much below ours.   What could we sell them (the mass population not just the upper tier) that they couldn't make themselves cheaper other than food.  Why would they even want to buy from us?

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One glaring omission here has been the complete lack of discussion regarding the EPA. This where much of this imbalance began. And, without getting into the politics of their viability, they certainly have made the ability to produce raw materials here in the US more difficult. 

Quickest way to circumvent that issue is to move facilities to countries where they do not harbor the same environmental standards.

 

ouroboros-snake-eating-its-own-tail-eternity-or-vector-12076546.jpg

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