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carburetor missing something


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I've discovered something abnormal about my Carter B&B  EV1 carb.  I'm missing what looks like a SS ball that is in the same tube that holds the accelerator pump jet. I should point out that I'm not a carb guy so I don't really understand all the circuits and how they function exactly.  I rebuilt the carb a couple months ago and it works ok except very rich on start up. I was careful to take many pictures as I disassembled it and made sure I followed specs when reassembling it.  However since I'm not a carb guy I didn't notice that the SS ball or whatever it is, was missing.  I only found out when I came across another EV1  the other day and when I took the upper body off, I noticed what mine was missing.  It looks like it is seated from the inside of the tube that holds the accelerator jet. 

So is air drawn down that tube on the outside of the upper body, from the top of the venturi and then past that SS ball?  It looks like that SS ball is located between the head of the jet and the aluminium plug, which makes me wonder why it's there? I don't have the carb off my car right now and the other carb isn't mine yet so I haven't pulled that plug out to have a closer look. Could that be the reason my carb pushes out black soot on start up?  Is there a remedy?  There doesn't seem to be a p/n for that part.  I've sent two pictures.  My carb without it and the other carb that has it.

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What is it's function? Like I mentioned it looks like it just leads to the space between the end of the jet  and the end of the aluminium plug.  As I mentioned my carb is on the car so I don't really have a clear image of what is in that hole but from the picture, it looks like a ball would just slip right through. As in the picture of the carb that has the ball, it looks like it's seated from the inside.  If it has no purpose why couldn't I just fill the hole with JB weld? Or just leave it open as it is now?  If it's plugged will I notice anything different in how the carb performs? 

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Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of the inside of the top body.  But for those not familiar with the EV1 model you can see the internal tube on the angle just above that aluminium plug.  The casting opens up as the upper and bottom bodies meet so the entire cavity surrounding that ball including around the jet is open to that tube that goes to the top of the venturi.  I can only assume that air is being drawn down that tube and through the centre of that jet. Right? Wrong?

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The plug ball is just bigger than the hole.

.It is pressed just to just slightly above the casting and staked in place.

Last year I also rebuilt a carb with that ball missing...a core carb. I did measure the diameter but don't now remember the size.

That is not a check ball. It must be in place to make the accelerator pump jet have a 100% strong squirt into the venturing area....otherwise fuel will spray up through the missing ball hole and do nothing but possibly cause a hesitation on quick hard acceleration.

Edited by c49er (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, c49er said:

The plug ball is just bigger than the hole.

.It is pressed just to just slightly above the casting and staked in place.

Last year I also rebuilt a carb with that ball missing...a core carb. I did measure the diameter but don't now remember the size.

That is not a check ball. It must be in place to make the accelerator pump jet have a 100% strong squirt into the venturing area....otherwise fuel will spray up through the missing ball hole and do nothing but possibly cause a hesitation on quick hard acceleration.

oh ok, thanks c49er.  So it sounds like if I was to look into that hole it would be a cup shape with a small hole on the bottom I suspect.  Similar to the recess that holds the smallest of the 3 balls in the rebuilt kit that is sort of on the opposite side of the lower body covering the "idle restriction tube" . 

By "staking"  I'm guessing you mean like peaning the aluminium around the edge to keep the ball in place?  Or could I use some JB weld to hold it in place? 

 

Sorry for my over curiosity but why would Carter bother to have that ball there if it doesn't serve any purpose.  Why not just made that part of the casting solid around the jet, or am I not understanding something? 

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41 minutes ago, 54vicky said:

reread C49ers posts again he made it pretty clear

I read it again and I still have the same question???? I understand that the ball  needs to be in place, but since it's not a check valve it doesn't move. It's fixed in place and sealed.   So again I ask, what's the point???

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During the casting process an open ended passage is formed, there's more than one of these within most carbs, so these plugs are used to close off the internal passages for fuel and airways to function.

 

Where there's a need access these passages in service for cleaning etc you will find a removable/replaceable aluminium plug, and of course at the other end of the passages are jets or vacuum ports as required. 

Edited by hchris
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3 minutes ago, hchris said:

During the casting process an open ended passage is formed, there's more than one of these within most carbs, so these plugs are used to close off the internal passages for fuel and airways to function.

Thanks hchris.  Noooow it's pretty clear.

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Yes I know but the who essence of this discussion to me at least is why????? 

2 minutes ago, c49er said:

In one of my first posts I did say the ball seals off a drilled passage way🙂

Yes I know, but the whole essence of this discussion from my point of view is,,,,,,  why?  Even though hchris explained it.  It still doesn't make sense why it's there in the first place.  If I'm "Mr Carter"  I'm calling the design engineer into my office and asking why are we casting the base with this extension coming off the passageway for the jet, and then creating a pocket for a ball to sit in and then creating a tool to seal that ball in place, when it makes no difference in the operation of the carb in the end.  

hchris wrote "these plugs are used to close off the internal passages for fuel and airways to function".

If this body is cast without that raised cylindrical portion that the ball is seated in, then the end result is the same.  It was a waste of time and money from a manufacturing point of view in my opinion.  The aluminium plug on the outside of the body allows any access needed and seals the chamber once the jet is installed.  

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The drilled passage under that ball plug is pressurized with fuel each time the throttle is pressed forcing gas through the accelerator pump jet. There is an aluminum access plug right at the end of the jet too. With out that aluminum plug or the small missing steel ball plug in place place the strong accelerator jet stream will be lost out of the missing plug and not be completely forced through the accelerator jet into the venturi.

The small steel ball approx .140" is firmly  pressed into the top end portion of the accelerator pump drilled passage. After it was drilled a steel ball was pressed partially down into that drilled passage and staked. Some I've seen are not staked.

That accelerator jet also has a hole in the side to push fuel into that small square box cavity  to mix air/fuel for emulsion of the venturi jet spray.

 

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6 minutes ago, c49er said:

The drilled passage under that ball plug is pressurized with fuel each time the throttle is pressed forcing gas through the accelerator pump jet. There is an aluminum access plug right at the end of the jet too. With out that aluminum plug or the small missing steel ball plug in place place the strong accelerator jet stream will be lost out of the missing plug and not be completely forced through the accelerator jet into the venturi.

The small steel ball approx .140" is firmly  pressed into the top end portion of the accelerator pump drilled passage. After it was drilled a steel ball was pressed partially down into that drilled passage and staked. Some I've seen are not staked.

That accelerator jet also has a hole in the side to push fuel into that small square box cavity  to mix air/fuel for emulsion of the venturi jet spray.

 

I'm not disputing what you're telling me but I'm not getting a clear picture from your first sentence.  I'm going to take apart that spare carb and have a closer look.  

But I do have another why question.  With all of what you've all just told me, why is my carb working almost flawlessly?  It has been running without that ball for about 4 months since I rebuilt the carb.  I've only owned the car since June and the previous owner said he didn't have any issues with how the car ran.  It does spit out a lot of black soot when it's cold on start up but I'm told that might be my automatic choke on the manifold that needs adjusting.  But I don't want to bring that into the discussion here.  My carb responds under acceleration just fine.

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The accelerator pump piston pushes a strong jet of fuel up that drilled passage.

 

Running rich on cold start...

Is your electric choke adjusted too rich?

 

Is this carb on a 46-48 chrysler Windsor/Royal or T&C sedan?

Getting at is it the right carb for the car.

 

Why does it run just right now with out the ball plug....

Wrong main/step rich up jets could mask a weak accelerator jet...

Just speculating...don't know

This advice is worth what you paid for it..I need to get back to my E7A1

 

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7 minutes ago, c49er said:

The accelerator pump piston pushes a strong jet of fuel up that drilled passage.

 

Running rich on cold start...

Is your electric choke adjusted too rich?

 

Is this carb on a 46-48 chrysler Windsor/Royal or T&C sedan?

Getting at is it the right carb for the car.

 

Why does it run just right now with out the ball plug....

Wrong main/step rich up jets could mask a weak accelerator jet...

Just speculating...don't know

This advice is worth what you paid for it..I need to get back to my E7A1

 

I'm going to be looking into the electric choke situation soon.

The carb is on a 48 Windsor 251c.i.  It's a EV1 manufactured Nov. 1947 so I'm assuming it's probably the OEM carb.

I'm not sure what the jets are.  

Thanks for everybody's input

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Oh btw.  Like I said I'm going to try rebuilding the spare carb I hope, if it's available.   When I rebuilt the carb we're talking about I soaked all the parts in pine-sol over night.  It did a pretty nice job, but perhaps there is something even better?

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