VIN

[vasquez7al]

Just bought a 1941 Packard 120 BC from son in Houston whose dad passes in Florida who owned the car for 23 years. I had it shipped to California where I live. I was transferring paper work, including title and the vin does not match from plate on left side of cowl. I read it could be stamped on frame by generator but could not find it. Any suggestions?

[Fleek]

It may be titled by the engine number. Cars back then did bot have an actual VIN as we know them today and were titled in various ways. What state is it titled in and how long ago?

[vasquez7al]

FLORIDA  Last time reregistered approximately 2015

[mercer09]

actually, in 41 they did have an actual vin.

 

engine numbers pretty much stopped by 1934.................

 

title may have been lost and another title substituted.

 

can you give us a photo of the plate on your cowl?

[bryankazmer]

my 41 Packard is titled (transferred from a Florida title) on the engine number.  Have you checked if the title number matches your engine number?

[Guest]

A serial number by definition is a "vehicle identification number" but not a  "VIN" as currently used by the Governments of the World and Auto Manufacturers.

[hidden_hunter]

On my Missouri title, it uses VIN and Chassis number interchangeably 

 

though technically my car is “matching numbers” lol

[Vila]

Mercer09,  are you referring to a specific state with reference to some of your comments.

The reason I ask is that I bought a 1962 vehicle several years ago that was registered using only the engine number on the Title and I completed paperwork to get it changed to what the manufacturer referred to as the Chassis Number, which had a very unique format that started with the vehicle model  number following by a unique 7 digit number.

 

 

What we know of ast the standardized VIN did not actually appear until 1981.  

VINs were first used in 1954 in the United States. From 1954 to 1981, there was no accepted standard for these numbers, so different manufacturers used different formats. ... In 1981, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the United States standardized the format.

 

Prior to the standardized VIN each manufacturer used there own methods for creating their vehicles serial numbers. 

1. The manufacturers Serial Number, sometimes referred to by other names like Commission Number.

2. The chassis number

3. The engine number

4. A combination that includes part of the vehicle model number and the last few digits of the vehicles actual serial number.

5. Could be others

 

Prior to the standardized VIN, the non-standardized serial number was not alway a good method for identifying a vehicle, since two manufactures could have produce vehicles with the same exact number.

 

Vasquez7al, if you can't find any complete number on the car that matches the title, is there any chance your title number could be a combination of the vehicles Model number and several of the last few digits from a number you can find on the car?

Edited November 23, 2019 by Vila (see edit history)

[Guest]

Another curve regarding vehicle registration is the fact that some jurisdictions used the engine number, some also called a vehicle the year it was first registered not the year it was built or the year the manufacturer said it was.

[victorialynn2]

9 hours ago, mercer09 said:

actually, in 41 they did have an actual vin.

 

engine numbers pretty much stopped by 1934.................

 

title may have been lost and another title substituted.

 

can you give us a photo of the plate on your cowl?

My dad’s ‘48 Jeepster was titled on the engine number. 

[auburnseeker]

My new Old Dodge is "titled" with the engine number from ME. That number if it's original according to the guys over on the P15 site is one the engine and somewhere on the rear frame rail on the driver's side in the back,  if the engine wasn't changed out at some point.   I looked all over and can't even find the holes where the Serial number plate usually found in a door jamb would have been.  I got worried as the old gent that sold me the car,  forgot to give me the paperwork and later mailed it after I tore the car apart and went through the big box of paper in the trunk looking for it. 

[mercer09]

anything can be titled anyway you want, but with thousands of titles here and from experience, most major cos stopped around 1934.

 

reassigned vins exist- (I have an A cowl outside with a highway dept reassigned # that looks to be from the 40s)

 

I always have about 20 cars present of all eras and that is my experience. yes, yours can vary and with a jeep, that makes sense.

 

same with customs, but chevy ford etc.- around 34.