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Musk's Cyber Truck speed bump

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1 hour ago, c49er said:

How many EV cars will end up dead on the roads running low on charge?

Owners trying so hard saying I think I can make it...

A new huge market for EV tow trucks.

 

Because this has never, ever happened in the history of gasoline cars...

 

man-walking-with-a-gas-can-BJR54B.jpg
 

 

 

13 hours ago, mercer09 said:

wait in line?     15 cars ahead of me?

 

nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

Because this has never, ever happened in the history of gasoline cars...

 

GASLINES.JPG?alias=standard_900x600

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

"10 kWh overnight"

 

My electric bill for the entire month of November showed only 104 kwh. That is about 3 kwh per day.

 

So if I had an electric car I'd be adding about another 300 kwh per month.

 

California has many natural gas fired electrical generating plants, making up supposedly about 35% of our electrical generation. So if everyone had a EV and they start charging at midnight for off peak pricing i think these idled natural gas power plants would need to come on at full operational power.

 

 

 

As I said, my next door neighbor saw about a $35/month increase in his electric bill because he plugs his car in each night.

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The reality is we have many people commuting over 60 miles each way to work, due to housing costs and wage disparity. People live in the lower cost housing area and commute long distances for better paying jobs.

 

EV's are being bought by retired people and those who don't need to commute too far.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

The reality is we have many people commuting over 60 miles each way to work, due to housing costs and wage disparity. People live in the lower cost housing area and commute long distances for better paying jobs.

 

 


People choose to pay more for transportation  expenses than their home.  It’s a baffling way to manage money.  

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37 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

The reality is we have many people commuting over 60 miles each way to work, due to housing costs and wage disparity. People live in the lower cost housing area and commute long distances for better paying jobs.

 

EV's are being bought by retired people and those who don't need to commute too far.

 

 

 

Very true, but I feel the end game is urban areas and for commercial use. 

Everyone forget that every crankcase of internal combustion engines has 5-6 quarts of oil in it, and we did not even talk about transmission fluid.  

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If you run out of gas,  you can get a few gallons and go back.  Fill it up and you are on your way.  You run out of juice with your electric car and unless a stranger comes along with an extension Cord and figures a way to charge your car off his, then you are on a flatbed.  

 

Remember as well alot of people drive $2500 cars or less, atleast around here.   Hard to believe an electric will get down to the price point without needing $2,000-$3000 worth of batteries.   I think Matt also mentioned a neighbor bought a 2 year old leaf for 10G.  What do they cost new?  Sounds like terrible depreciation to me. 

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)
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Because this has never, ever happened in the history of gasoline cars...

 

 

well, not to me at least. Impatience is not a virtue that I do hold. I sum up a gas line and am on my way.

 

when I go food shopping for a few items, get to the front of the store and there is only one checkout and 15  people in line?

 

guess what I do? I drop everything and head exit stage right............ who has time for lines? not me..............

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Sounds like terrible depreciation to me.

 

 

Randy, who in their right mind drives a car named Leaf?????????????

 

sad.

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4 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

Randy, who in their right mind drives a car named Leaf?????????????

Well GM did Maple Leaf trucks for the Canadian market, but being a Mopar fan you might still be onto something here....

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10 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

Sounds like terrible depreciation to me.

 

 

Randy, who in their right mind drives a car named Leaf?????????????

 

sad.

It's all marketing.  It's meant to sucker in the people that think they are being all environmentally friendly buying a car probably not even knowing where the power is coming from to recharge it or how much pollution the batteries are going to create to be made,  shipped and replaced.  Sounds good until you think about it.  If you want to help save the planet stop driving any car and buy a bicycle.   Then they would really be doing their part. 

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

It's meant to sucker in the people that think they are being all environmentally friendly buying a car probably not even knowing where the power is coming from to recharge it or how much pollution the batteries are going to create to be made,  shipped and replaced.

 

Or the many Children that work in the mines to get the minerals all these batteries require.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/01/child-labour-behind-smart-phone-and-electric-car-batteries/

 

"The glamourous shop displays and marketing of state of the art technologies are a stark contrast to the children carrying bags of rocks, and miners in narrow manmade tunnels risking permanent lung damage."

 

-Ron

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Sure glad that never happened here in the USA.  My grandfather was a breaker boy in PA hard coal country.

 

 

B760BAA9-104F-4895-9459-83E57FAA0F73.jpeg

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21 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

 

Or the many Children that work in the mines to get the minerals all these batteries require.

 

Just like the clothes that we wear....... 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)

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5 hours ago, ply33 said:

You don't need those charging stations: Most people will charge at home, much cheaper and more convenient. The need for public charging stations is mostly for long distance driving.

There's a Tesla supercharger station right near my house, so I observe it pretty regularly. It's not on an interstate / long-distance route.
At any given 8-11AM weekday, there are around 5 Teslas there, charging.
Certainly gives the impression that a LOT of people who spend many times over the average new car price and obviously can afford an at-home charger, prefer to charge for free. Because with the mileage Teslas get- they should be near 100% at 9 in the morning.

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7 minutes ago, WQ59B said:

There's a Tesla supercharger station right near my house, so I observe it pretty regularly. It's not on an interstate / long-distance route.
At any given 8-11AM weekday, there are around 5 Teslas there, charging.
Certainly gives the impression that a LOT of people who spend many times over the average new car price and obviously can afford an at-home charger, prefer to charge for free. Because with the mileage Teslas get- they should be near 100% at 9 in the morning.

Many times over the average new car?  Have you priced a new car or pickup recently?  

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Let me preface this with I'm not an electric car person and I'm not sure that I ever see myself being one but I can see where they fit in for some people and applications.  That being said I can't help but think that the Teslas and electrics in general are simply a new different car culture that really isn't so different from those of us that will take a road trip in an old car.  In my newish truck I can get nearly 600 miles out of a tank of fuel if I'm not too hard on the go pedal and I'm happy to drive as far as I can, but if I were to take my 66 Coronet I really have no idea how far I could push it but after about 2 to 3 hours I'm ready to get out and stretch and fuel up plus I look forward to the chat at the pumps with whoever is around and takes an interest in the car.  When I see the cars at the local Tesla charging station the owners/drivers seem to gather around with each other or anyone who wanders over to chat with them.  Is it really any different than a classic car tour?  Maybe part of the ownership is the social aspect.  Just possibly the rest of us are missing something in what might be a return to the slower way of travelling that forces you to get off the interstate/freeway and discover some communities that the rest of just pass right on by.  

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20 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Many times over the average new car?  Have you priced a new car or pickup recently?  

Yep.
Average new car transaction price is around $34K.
Model S starts at $81K, Model X at $86K.

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55 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Sure glad that never happened here in the USA.  My grandfather was a breaker boy in PA hard coal country.

 

 

B760BAA9-104F-4895-9459-83E57FAA0F73.jpeg

Because it use to happen here doesn't make it right in a foreign country now.  The difference is we didn't know better back then and everyone worked because there was no free loading off the gov't.  Want to eat,  you worked. Mom or Dad couldn't work,  kids stepped in and did it to support the family.  

The difference between the two as well,  is you might start in this position but you could end up owning the cola company here.  Tho opportunity was there.   In a communist country,  you start here and usually end up here as there is no promotion. 

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11 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Because it use to happen here doesn't make it right in a foreign country now.  The difference is we didn't know better back then and everyone worked because there was no free loading off the gov't.  Want to eat,  you worked. Mom or Dad couldn't work,  kids stepped in and did it to support the family.  

The difference between the two as well,  is you might start in this position but you could end up owning the cola company here.  Tho opportunity was there.   In a communist country,  you start here and usually end up here as there is no promotion. 

Your last statement is not true, at least in China.  As I said earlier I have been there and seen things firsthand.  Yes there is a chain of command and there are workers and bosses and you can find a way to work your way up, usually with education and dedication to your employer.  There are many well off Chinese living a similar good life like ours, going to Starbucks for coffee, shopping in upscale malls and buying fine cars.  Communism is around but capitalism is too. 

 

Here in my area young kids kids are involved in farm work because their religion encourages it.  Several kids this year have died in farming accidents even though our state work laws would normally not allow them to do that work if they were not part of a religious group.  They have been granted an exception from those rules and at times pay the price for that.

 

Coal barons took took advantage of both kids and adults.  The coal region was the birthplace of labor unions to break the stranglehold the coal owners had on the workers, the garment industry was right behind them in taking advantage of children and women.  Yes, we should know better today and protect children from dangerous working conditions.  Took us a while to buy into that mindset and will continue to take time as manufacturing grows to be a global endeavor.

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There is a Model X Tesla SUV parked at one of our strip malls all the time. Belongs to the owner of a franchise fast food BBQ place. The more money a business owner spends on a vehicle, the more they can deduct. So more power to them. But it doesn't imply it is the most economical choice.

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It seems that there's a prevailing opinion that if an act doesn't solve 100% of the problem, we shouldn't even try. Or because there's a problem, if you're not suffering you're not really trying to solve it. Or is it just if someone don't feel like changing, everyone else should feel the same way? I guess I'm asking this: why does anyone care if other people want to sell, buy, and drive electric cars, whatever their reasons? For example, I really don't understand why people buy 700 horsepower Lamborghini trucks--I don't get it, but I don't care, either.

 

Nobody's forcing anybody into electric cars, they aren't doing any harm and may actually be helping in a small way, yet the people who get most upset about electric cars are the people who don't seem to care at all about the problem. Worse, many insist that they would help but since there's no easy, quick answer they decide it's a mistake to even try. They come up with all kinds of rationalizations for why they just won't bother. It's like they suspect there's a problem and electric cars only remind them that they don't care enough to do anything about it.


I'm also amused by comments that electric car drivers are misguided hypocrites for driving cars of any kind instead of walking or riding bicycles. Yet if someone actually does that, they're condemned as sanctimonious jerks whose personal contributions don't matter one bit in the grand scheme of things because the problem is just too big. And somehow all the people who say electric cars are bad and the environment doesn't need any help are suddenly very, very concerned about the environmental impact of all those new power plants that might need to be built to charge electric cars, and oh God, what about the batteries?

 

Man, we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!

 

It's like we went from "we don't have to change anything because it's not as bad as we think" to "nothing we do will change anything, so why bother?" with nothing in-between.

 

2 hours ago, mercer09 said:

Randy, who in their right mind drives a car named Leaf?????????????

 

sad.

 

And if logic fails entirely, I guess you can still make fun of the name.

 

1 hour ago, Locomobile said:

 

Or the many Children that work in the mines to get the minerals all these batteries require.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/01/child-labour-behind-smart-phone-and-electric-car-batteries/

 

"The glamourous shop displays and marketing of state of the art technologies are a stark contrast to the children carrying bags of rocks, and miners in narrow manmade tunnels risking permanent lung damage."

 

-Ron

 

Awesome, you're taking a stand against child labor. I respect that. I assume you don't use a laptop or a cell phone or cordless tools or anything else with rechargeable batteries because of this child labor, am I correct? Does your wife have any diamonds? Wear athletic shoes? Are you 100% certain you aren't using any electricity that is generated by coal--I understand coal mining is pretty bad for your lungs and hurts the kids that live near the mines. 

 

3 minutes ago, WQ59B said:

Yep.
Average new car transaction price is around $34K.
Model S starts at $81K, Model X at $86K.

 

Priced a diesel dually lately?

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1 hour ago, WQ59B said:

Yep.
Average new car transaction price is around $34K.
Model S starts at $81K, Model X at $86K.

 

I thought that Tesla's were considered in the high end luxury car price market,

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Priced a diesel dually lately?

Yep.
But a diesel dually isn't the average new vehicle- price-wise, is it?

I just find it interesting that people who seemingly have no where to be at 9:30 in the AM, have spent anywhere from $85K-120K on a vehicle, who obviously can afford a home charger & it's installation... make a point of sitting for an hour in a parking lot merely to top off with like $3 of free electric. It's a bit of a head-scratcher.

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3 minutes ago, WQ59B said:


But a diesel dually isn't the average new vehicle- price-wise, is it?

 

And neither is the Tesla

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I respect that. I assume you don't use a laptop or a cell phone or cordless tools or anything else with rechargeable batteries because of this child labor, am I correct?

 

That is mostly correct, the amount of lithium based batteries I use wouldn't propel one of these EV's two inches. In this day and age of our "civilized" society, although horrific acts are being committed daily, no child anywhere should be required to work period and especially not in a dangerous environment.

 

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

It's like we went from "we don't have to change anything because it's not as bad as we think" to "nothing we do will change anything, so why bother?" with nothing in-between.

 

Oh there is plenty in between, if you want an electric car have it, but I've been watching how all this works for a long time and listening to the "green new deal" politicians. This isn't about climate, it's about more control of the masses, and implementing any and every new tax possible along the way. As I wrote, if one wants an EV, have at it, but when the rest of us are taxed out of our vehicles of choice and forced in to an EV or public transit, then it's too late. That is what they are pushing for. People laughed when I said medical insurance would be more expensive under Obamacare, they aren't laughing now. Be careful what ya ask for.

 

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Are you 100% certain you aren't using any electricity that is generated by coal

 

I certainly hope it is, I understand the carbon emitted by coal is raising the temperature, not sure if you've noticed, but we could use some global warming as cold as these winters are getting. I about wore out my snowblower the last few winters in Michigan. Coldest winter on record in 2014-15, the great lakes froze over 100%, never happened before in recorded history,  funny though, none of the climate alarmists mentioned it. Or those who would discuss it gave me the usual blanket reply to any glaring contradictory evidence that their argument is hollow "That's part of it!" :) It could be snowing in July - "That's part of it"

 

-Ron

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