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Musk's Cyber Truck speed bump

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Yes, physics is why.  That the law is written to grant an exemption is policy preference.  And why a V12 Mercedes pays a gas guzzler tax, but a pick-up doesn't.

 

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Ethanol in fuel used in internal combustion engines is a taxpayer funded subsidy to the corn farmers, it ensures they get top money for their crop regardless of the market conditions.  If you buy fuel with ethanol added you are contributing to and participating in a government program that has been instrumental in hurting smaller refineries and impacting supplier competition in the marketplace.  ICE gasoline user = government subsidies user.  

 

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I heard a good analogy the other day:


What if, every time you had to charge your cell phone, you had to take it to a store and have them charge it for you? Even if it only took a few minutes--would you do it?

 

That's the gas station vs. charging an electric car. Sure, the gas station is on the way home and it only takes a few minutes; nevertheless you've simply gotten used to the inconvenience because that's how it is and how it always has been in your lifetime. It certainly isn't an advantage. Charging your cell phone at home or at the office with no extra effort sure is nice, isn't it?

 

Ultimately, little things like that are what will make electric cars palatable to a majority of the motoring public. Yes, yes, yes, I know your daily commute is 750 miles each way and you have to haul 13,000 pounds of gear with you everywhere you go and there might be a flood that chases you 1200 miles inland so you need that gas/diesel vehicle just in case everything goes to hell when the zombies come for your family. But for most people who commute 20 miles a day in urban areas (average commute is about 19.7 miles/day) and who just use their cars for getting around locally, electric vehicles will not be a hardship and might even be a boon to quality of life (I'd sure like fewer guys with loud exhaust hammering past my house, for example). Fuel-powered vehicles will never vanish and for those of you who swallow the BS on TV, I am also here to tell you that there is no political party that wants to take your oil-burning car any more than they want to take the guns that kill schools full of children. That ship has sailed. No matter what the scaremongers on TV tell you and how desperately you want to believe that there are people who really are that unreasonable and narrow-minded, nobody will ever FORCE you to use an electric car. Nobody will force your children to use an electric car. Nobody's going to outlaw anything in the United States. As long as there's oil in the ground, someone will sell gasoline and someone else will build a machine that burns it and you'll be able to buy it. Eventually, opinions will change and economics will alter behavior, just as it did when the guys riding horses thought the guys driving one-cylinder putt-putt cars were fools. Add in fewer moving parts, improved reliability, easier maintenance, simpler operation, and other advantages, and eventually electric cars will seem a lot more reasonable than they do today (insert but... but... but battery replacement! here).

 

I'm sad to say all this will happen without worrying about whether you like it. That's what the future does. I know plenty of old people who don't use the internet and think it's stupid and useless. I know plenty of old people who don't have cell phones and think they're stupid and useless. I remember plenty of people in the '70s who thought microwave ovens were stupid and useless. There were people who thought television was a stupid and useless fad. Or rock-n-roll music. Bill Gates once postulated that there was just no possible reason why any person would ever need more than 20 megabytes of memory in their personal computer. I'm pretty certain there were even people who, at the time, didn't understand why we should have toilets inside the house.

 

They're all relegated to the dustbin of history and the world moved on without them and didn't give it a second thought. Just as it always will.


The problems with electric car infrastructure and range will be solved in time in some way we probably don't even have yet (I've heard recent talk of inductive charging built into major highways as a proposal for long-distance range issues, particularly for trucks). Will all the problems with electric vehicles be solved and will electric vehicles solve all the problems? Of course not, don't be stupid. But making perfect the enemy of good is why we're in this mess in the first place.

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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Well said Matt!  The old saying from my previous employment in TV was “I’ll buy a color TV when they perfect it”. Those people are still waiting. At one time we seemed to be entertained by a glimpse of the future, back when Popular Science and Popular Mechanics were our go to source for information.  Now we are polarized by people on TV who present information for the sake of ratings. 

 

 

Edited by TerryB (see edit history)
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Well put, Matt.  Consider how long a car engine initially went before needing a rebuild.  You had to rebuild the entire engine!  Sorta like battery replacement.  Battery technology and charging infrastructure are still the weaknesses of electric car technology, but have certainly improved a lot.  Power/weight, at least on full charge, is now fairly competitive.  Hybrid solves most of the range and charge issues, but at a cost since you have essentially two systems.  I often drive 300+ miles in a day, so it's not for me yet, but it's not just EV1 and Prius econocars anymore.

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2 hours ago, TerryB said:

Ethanol in fuel used in internal combustion engines is a taxpayer funded subsidy to the corn farmers, it ensures they get top money for their crop regardless of the market conditions.  If you buy fuel with ethanol added you are contributing to and participating in a government program that has been instrumental in hurting smaller refineries and impacting supplier competition in the marketplace.  ICE gasoline user = government subsidies user.  

 

I steer clear of the ethanol crap on everything I own.  Old cars newer cars and every piece of equipment I own.  Fortunately I have 3 stations that sell it in less than a miles drive from the house. 

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46 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I steer clear of the ethanol crap on everything I own.  Old cars newer cars and every piece of equipment I own.  Fortunately I have 3 stations that sell it in less than a miles drive from the house. 

Only 1 station in a ten mile radius has non ethanol where I live.  Newer trend locally is the E-15 option.

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Lego has their own version.

 

Lego mocks Tesla over Elon Musk's embarrassing Cybertruck reveal with their own 'guaranteed shatterproof' vehicle

  • Lego posted an image of their own version of a shatterproof truck on Monday 
  • The toy company's post is the latest in a series of memes to mock Tesla
  • Tesla's lead designer managed to shatter the Cybertruck's 'indestructible' glass

image.png.ac1f9fe5f538e29508d46fdc0a84edc4.png

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To take the cell phone analogy one step further, what if when driving on certain roads you had inductive charging ?

 

"You don't see any truck company doing a slalom against a sports car as a demo, after all." ever hear of the Moose test ? Some interesting videos of all kinds of vehicles.

 

The only fair tug of war would be with a steam engine. It also develops max torque at zero rpm.

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5 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I remember plenty of people... who thought...

... that New Coke was pointless, a McDLT answered nobody's request, that the Amazon FirePhone was an uncompetitive dud, Premier Smokeless cigarette was simply awful and that Google Glasses were flat out ridiculous. That future happened too, despite massive hype & billions invested to bring them (and 1000's of other products) to market. 

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But now you can get a 75" TV for $600 (in 1973 a 25" was $500)

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As I was slaving away at some home renos today it dawned on me that about 30 yrs ago I thought what was the point of a cordless drill, then 25 yrs ago I go my first one, battery life was terrible and the whole thing was done and worn out in about 3 or 4 yrs.  My current one just put in 500 floor screws without changing the battery and I just hung a sheet of drywall with no end in sight.  I suspect that EVs will continue to evolve at about that same pace and will find their place eventually as mainly city cars and local delivery trucks, UPS and the like, and will be just one more tool in the vehicle tool box.

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Like anything else the quality of the drill makes a big difference. I have a Ryobi and a Hitachi. Both came with two batteries and all take charges well. Given a choice I buy corded rather than cordless (why there is an outlet every eight feet (or less) in my working garage also have 240)

 

Of course we have had battery radios since 1924 (anyone remember the Eveready 9/90 volt batteries ? Have also had K-Mart and JC Penny "lifetime" batteries. but have not been available for a while, now I buy only AGMs.

 

Is nice that my Black Friday shopping is done and I never left home. Now for Cyber Monday.

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57 minutes ago, padgett said:

Like anything else the quality of the drill makes a big difference. I have a Ryobi and a Hitachi. Both came with two batteries and all take charges well. Given a choice I buy corded rather than cordless (why there is an outlet every eight feet (or less) in my working garage also have 240)

 

Of course we have had battery radios since 1924 (anyone remember the Eveready 9/90 volt batteries ? Have also had K-Mart and JC Penny "lifetime" batteries. but have not been available for a while, now I buy only AGMs.

 

Is nice that my Black Friday shopping is done and I never left home. Now for Cyber Monday.

 

10 years ago regardless of the make the battery technology in cordless tool was only for home owners, and for the most part you could stop the drill with you bare hand.  They could not last for the full demand of an 8 hour work environment. Now no problem the battery operated tools run at full strength for most of the day.

In 10 more years I wonder where the technology will take it. Who would ever think that you could leave your cell phone on the console of your vehicle and it will charge with no cord plugged in 

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23 hours ago, John348 said:

it would be safe to say that the similar statement was made over 120 years years when automobiles were just starting out replacing animals pulling carts. It would be safe to say there were many people back then arguing that nothing would replace the horse and ox carts. 

 

That's not really the same thing, that was a fundamental change in travel, EV's are just a different type of propulsion, old tech in a different wrapper with few improvements. 120 years ago, they introduced electric cars, nobody wanted them. Steam power lost out to the I/C as well as battery power.

 

-Ron

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1 hour ago, John348 said:

Now no problem the battery operated tools run at full strength for most of the day.

 

We use cordless drills a lot and have for about 20 years, mostly for tapping small holes in aluminum and driving small machines screws, the drills will last one or two hours doing this. Even the latest and greatest Dewalt 18volt brushless 1/2" drill won't last all day. We use them because they have much lower torque and are less likely to snap a stalled tap. We also have Milwaukee hole guns, those drills have an enormous amount of torque.  They supply two batteries for a reason. Maybe Musk should do that.

 

-Ron

21 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I'm sad to say all this will happen without worrying about whether you like it.

 

Sadly, you're probably right. But remember this, it has nothing to do with "climate change" hoopla and the ecology, it's about economy, their idea of it,  not yours. This is all about tighter control of the masses, fewer freedoms and higher taxes to pay for their social engineering plans. Oh they will still let us drive our big gas guzzlers, but we are going to pay dearly for the freedom to do so. Folks advocating this have no idea what their fighting for, "Californication".

 

-Ron

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1 hour ago, Locomobile said:

 

That's not really the same thing, that was a fundamental change in travel, EV's are just a different type of propulsion, old tech in a different wrapper with few improvements. 120 years ago, they introduced electric cars, nobody wanted them. Steam power lost out to the I/C as well as battery power.

 

-Ron

 

Ron, 

That was a matter of practicality. Electricity lost out because the infrastructure was not ready for it, electricity was far from available everywhere, steam was complicated and required some sort of engineering skills to operate. 

 

44 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

 

We use cordless drills a lot and have for about 20 years, mostly for tapping small holes in aluminum and driving small machines screws, the drills will last one or two hours doing this. Even the latest and greatest Dewalt 18volt brushless 1/2" drill won't last all day. We use them because they have much lower torque and are less likely to snap a stalled tap. We also have Milwaukee hole guns, those drills have an enormous amount of torque.  They supply two batteries for a reason. Maybe Musk should do that.

 

-Ron

 

Ron,

I retired as a supervisor from one the larger electrical contractors in NYC, I had seen the evolution of battery operated tools under heavy commercial use, our use was different then the one you described. My observation was that they lasted all day, and required less service, we only ordered Milwaukee tools, so I can only speak from my experience.

 

49 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

 

Sadly, you're probably right. But remember this, it has nothing to do with "climate change" hoopla and the ecology, it's about economy, their idea of it,  not yours. This is all about tighter control of the masses, fewer freedoms and higher taxes to pay for their social engineering plans. Oh they will still let us drive our big gas guzzlers, but we are going to pay dearly for the freedom to do so. Folks advocating this have no idea what their fighting for, "Californication".

 

-Ron

 

Ron,

you got to lighten up

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In California you can pay extra for "green" energy, electricity. That means you will be able to claim your electricity comes from hydro dams, geothermal plants, wind farms and other zero-carbon sources. Then others like myself who pay a lower rate have our power coming from the nuclear power plant, and natural gas fired generating plants, and etc less than green sources. Now does that really make sense? All power supply sources feed the same grid and effectively mix together to become indistinguishable. If you live next door to me and pay extra should you really claim moral superiority because you have a better power source than I?

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53 minutes ago, John348 said:

Electricity lost out because the infrastructure was not ready for it, electricity was far from available everywhere

 

You're going back too far, electricity at that time i.e. 1900 was far more readily available than gasoline. There were no gasoline stations, gasoline was only sold in general stores as spot remover, hair straightener etc. Refineries burned it off to get rid of it as their production items were lubricating oils and kerosene. I have publications from 1908 that warn about the availability of gasoline being uncertain and may not be available at all in the near future.

1 hour ago, John348 said:

steam was complicated and required some sort of engineering skills to operate. 

 

Patent lawsuits and the 1901 Olds killed the steamer, coupled with the long start up times and freezing in the winter. They were much easier to drive than the current I/C rivals at that time, which had very low octane fuel, problematic electrical systems, poor engine designs etc. They shook, they smoked, were noisy.. The implication was made in the literature that even a woman could operate a steamer, the first licensed woman driver in the US, Anne Rainsford French Bush drove a Locomobile.

 

image.thumb.png.0ba99d1ab7a2d2d2b667070124bd61ce.png

 

-Ron

 

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39 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

In California you can pay extra for "green" energy, electricity. That means you will be able to claim your electricity comes from hydro dams, geothermal plants, wind farms and other zero-carbon sources.

 I'm assuming it all comes through the same grid. I'd just tell everyone I'm using that green electric part but refuse to pay for it. :)

 

-Ron

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And a steam engine requires proper adjustment of your Johnson. Today with flash boilers and computer controls, external combustion may return.

 

Those on the left coast do not know how good they have it. Choices of power, wow ! 2019 has been an unusual year since I have not needed my generators even once, just a few glitches the UPSs could handle.

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2 hours ago, padgett said:

Choices of power, wow !

 

All through the same wire, cheap stuff and expensive stuff :)  That is like the old joke about the two bums splitting a bottle of beer, one said he had to drink the his friends half to get to his half.

 

2 hours ago, padgett said:

And a steam engine requires proper adjustment of your Johnson.

 

You lost me with that one :) Do you mean "cut-off"?

 

2 hours ago, padgett said:

Today with flash boilers and computer controls, external combustion may return.

 

Here is what I posted on another thread regarding that:

It's doubtful that will ever happen. The glaring problem with an external combustion engine, virtually any fuel that can be burned in an external combustion chamber can be processed and burned in an internal combustion chamber much more efficiently than using water/steam as a means of transferring the power from the heat, even coal and wood can be gasified and burnt in an I/C engine more efficiently. It takes an enormous amount of heat to boil water with great loss, in a steam plant any flue gases which are high volume, under 400 Fahrenheit are useless for other than heating feedwater and lost, this kills any chance at any competitive economies with it's internal combustion rival. Another huge problem is thermal loss,  I've written the statement many times regarding heated surface that if a surface in a boiler is not seeing fire it's condensing steam. If it's not making it, it's losing it, and why they used to wrap the boilers and cylinders in wood on the outside, it was insulation. Pressure and temperature of steam are like two meshed gears, whatever one is, the other corresponds. ref. steam tables.

 

My little Locomobile can achieve around 18 mpg due to it's fuel type, weight and relative low friction drive train. A good running heavier Stanley - 10 hp etc will get about 12 mpg, the larger high performance cars like the Doble with it's 1.2M BTU burner will get in the range of 5 mpg. The SES Monaco steam car program, the Besler/Crank Chevelle and Australian Pritchard Falcon were probably the three best studies in to a modern steam car and although all three were successful, the mileage was abysmal in the sub 20 mpg range, and too, they all came in around the time of the 70's oil embargo and the last thing anyone wanted to see was the introduction of a vehicle with poor fuel economy. That is what kills the modern steam vehicle. No big conspiracy.

 

The key to a modern steam car, is to utilize a source of heat that cannot be used any other way except to boil water, etc. A common mistake made and misconception is that steam cars do not require very much heat, they require an enormous amount of heat, my little Locomobile has a 300k BTU burner, which is enough to heat about three average size homes in the winter. A cookstove burner is about 10k BTU so about 30 of those to get started :)

 

They are pointless, but sure fun to play with.

 

-Ron

 

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Just as an aside, a number of times in my career as an engineer my designs included things that did not exist at the time but I expected when needed. The far out stuff at trade shows is often next year's big thing. A superinsulator could be just around the corner. All I know about the future is that it will be different from anything expected.

 

(Just replaced the two 4foot florescent tubes in my kitchen with a $15 LED light rated at 3200 lumens. (5,000 is $20). Now they are instant-on and my white sink is too bright to look at.)

 

ps never heard of the "Johnson Bar" in a locomotive ?

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6 hours ago, padgett said:

never heard of the "Johnson Bar" in a locomotive ?

 

You wrote "Johnson" without the bar, I thought that is what you meant, it is for cut-off. Or hook up as some call it. it's really "cut off" as the linkage is adjusted to cut the steam off earlier on each stroke, or simply put, shortening the stroke of the valve linkage for economy of steam.

-Ron

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