Graeme1938

1928 1929 1930 Chrysler 72 75 and 77 Alloy Cylinder Heads not Red Head

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Greetings all,

The next batch of Vintage Racing Chrysler Cylinder Heads are off to be tempered and machined. 

These are the heads cast using the Ray Jones (Vintage Racing Chrysler’s) patterns. We are using the same foundry and same material specifications that Ray Jones used to such good effect. These patterns are the ultimate version with the extra stiffening ribs and most effective compression ratio.

Ray did a lot of flow bench work and dynometer testing. One of the things he found was that raising the compression ratio beyond a certain point caused a decline in performance from that achieved at the optimum compression ratio.  

Vintage Racing Chrysler Heads proved themselves on the super fast 72 75 and 77 Chrysler’s and the Donald Campbell replica that he built. His cars toured, rallied and raced very successfully and reliably.

Ray was timed at 118mph in his 1929 Chrysler Series 75 Roadster down the Mulsanne Straight. He completed Mille Miglia’s, LeMans and raced all over the world always at the pointy end. Hard to argue with results. 

The patterns are beautiful in themselves. 

We also have the rest of his patterns for the bits and pieces he manufactured including the patterns for the dress up pieces (side plates that don’t leak etc)

Regards,

Graeme Louk

Australia 

 

D3E0FC8A-FE3C-4854-9CC7-59BE9D48ACF2.jpeg

9833A402-1A20-428B-8C7C-47F38B8AF3A0.jpeg

Edited by Graeme1938
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This is truly exiting stuff and a welcome initiative to improve on the HP of 7-bearing 6-cylinder engines. I will need one if I go for an entry in Mille Miglia, where an old Chrysler is welcome and very well suited.

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Yeah this is pretty cool I have just purchased a Bit of a project car that’s a Chrysler 75 that has had the Ute treatment. Not exactly sure of what we are going to do with it yet but it is always good to know of a source for parts etc. this is exciting.

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2 hours ago, Coupe_deVille said:

Do they fit on a newer 25" block?

Sadly no: It’d open up a big market opportunity. They will fit the big pre 1930 engines 72, 75 and a 77. They could be made to fit the first Series 70 from 1926. 

I’m not an expert but I think go fast heads are already available for the newer block. 

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3 hours ago, Narve N said:

This is truly exiting stuff and a welcome initiative to improve on the HP of 7-bearing 6-cylinder engines. I will need one if I go for an entry in Mille Miglia, where an old Chrysler is welcome and very well suited.

You will also need a co-driver. Can I register my interest now and let you know that I’m available. If you need further encouragement can I also say that I serve well as ballast, I’m pretty hardy and will push until I drop, I’m not bad on the wrenches, know how to repair a puncture and I’m not overly fussy. On the downside I don’t mind a tipple but that makes me hard to start early in the mornings. 

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3 hours ago, Vintageben said:

Yeah this is pretty cool I have just purchased a Bit of a project car that’s a Chrysler 75 that has had the Ute treatment. Not exactly sure of what we are going to do with it yet but it is always good to know of a source for parts etc. this is exciting.

Hey Ben,

Did you just purchase the 75 that was on eBay Australia. If so I say well bought. 

If you’re going to put a correct engine in it get in touch as I may be able to supply some leads. 

Forza Chrysler 

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6 hours ago, Graeme1938 said:

Hey Ben,

Did you just purchase the 75 that was on eBay Australia. If so I say well bought. 

If you’re going to put a correct engine in it get in touch as I may be able to supply some leads. 

Forza Chrysler 

Yeah that’s the one. I’m still deciding what to do with the car, I’m pleased that’s others feel that it was well bought, I’m happy with it. I awould like to get the motor running and see how good it is before I make too many decisions. I do have many parts for a 28 Chrysler 72 Sports Roadster including a fairly complete motor and gearbox  (condition unknown).  As I understand these are very similar to the 75. Any way I will probably pm you in the next couple of days as at the moment we are pretty busy here work wise. 

Cheers ben

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3 hours ago, lambroast said:

Hi Graeme,

Any idea when the heads will be available, and what the cost might be? 

Hi Lamroast,

At this point we only have a ball park figure and won’t have a firm figure until they are completely finished.

There’s a few of us that wanted them so we decided to just do it and split the costs.

One guy has backed out so there’ll be one head from this batch for sale early in the new year. 

We will manufacture batches of them for sale once we are sorted. I’ll put them on the AACA buy and sell when we are there. No sense in over promising and then under delivering. 

Here’s where we are at at the moment - The castings have to be heat treated before we take them to the machine shop. There’s a delay because we are waiting for other casting to be done in the same material specifications so that we hold the costs. If we get the heat treaters to run an oven just for us it doubles the cost of the castings. 

Once the machine shop has machined them we’ll know how much that costs. The machine shop is going to take the job on a do and charge basis. They need to make jigs and as they are getting CNC machined there’s drawings to. But with CNC machining they will be accurate and repeatable. 

It been a time consuming process but it’s important to get it right and they are getting there. 

As well as getting them right we want to make them a viable option as replacements for standard heads not just a high end racers whim which means containing costs.

There is no way that we could ever manufacture enough to get the prices anywhere near the mass produced go fast gear that’s available for flat head fords. 

When we have a number we’ll tell people what that is. I should probably dig a bunker to hide in when that time comes as there’ll be a few that woulda, shoulda, coulda done a better job for a fraction of the price in half the time. But that’s the same with all jobs. 

So that’s the long answer. 

The short answer is no .....Sorry

Stay tuned and we’ll let you know. 

Have a great weekend. 

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Graeme, I don't have a Chrysler that these heads will fit on.......but I applaud you and your group of folks for taking the leap of faith to make these heads available for Chrysler owners. I'm sure that this is not a money-making proposition especially when you consider the time invested in making all this happen, but it's the kind of thing that makes this old car hobby (hobby as opposed to a business) endure.

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Hi Graeme,

I would like to confirm, I would purchase one of your new cylinder heads when completed.

I own two Chrysler 77's

1929 Roadster 6 wire wheel (arriving within 4 weeks from USA) restored

1930 Royal Coupe 6 wire wheel (Full road registration)
I am based in Sydney.

I need more speed!
Kind Regards

Phillip Joseph

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14 minutes ago, Phillip Joseph said:

Hi Graeme,

I would like to confirm, I would purchase one of your new cylinder heads when completed.

I own two Chrysler 77's

1929 Roadster 6 wire wheel (arriving within 4 weeks from USA) restored

1930 Royal Coupe 6 wire wheel (Full road registration)
I am based in Sydney.

I need more speed!
Kind Regards

Phillip Joseph

 

If you need more speed, do what I do, go down a hill....:)

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5 hours ago, maok said:

 

If you need more speed, do what I do, go down a hill....:)

Mate, Once you start into this old car madness it’s all downhill from there. 

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6 hours ago, Phillip Joseph said:

Hi Graeme,

I would like to confirm, I would purchase one of your new cylinder heads when completed.

I own two Chrysler 77's

1929 Roadster 6 wire wheel (arriving within 4 weeks from USA) restored

1930 Royal Coupe 6 wire wheel (Full road registration)
I am based in Sydney.

I need more speed!
Kind Regards

Phillip Joseph

Hi Phillip,

You are a lucky guy with impeccable taste in cars. A 6 wire wheel equipped 77 roadster is a very desirable jigger. 

I’m in Sydney to. My workshop is in Artarmon. Most of the patterns are stored in Leura. I’ve been bringing them up and down for repair and now it’ll be as we need them. 

We should meet up and kick tyres and you can run a critical eye over the parts that we are going to be producing. Same goes for any other vintage Chrysler guys that want to have a look. 

PM me for a phone number. 

Regards,

Graeme

 

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Hi Graeme, 

please count me in from The Netherlands.

We drive a 1929 series 75 Roadster, the engine was completely rebuild last year.

kind regards

Pete

P9040159.jpg

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Typo on photo of the Roadster.

It was built on the 18th August 1929 in USA.
I purchased the Roadster ninety years to the day (18th August 2019) from Florida.

Currently on a ship to Australia.

The Coupe has just been converted to RHD for my personal convenience.
The Roadster will stay LHD.

Phillip

1930 Chrysler 77 Roadster (002).jpg

1930 Chrysler 77 Royal Coupe.jpg

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11 hours ago, chrysler75 said:

Hi Graeme, 

please count me in from The Netherlands.

We drive a 1929 series 75 Roadster, the engine was completely rebuild last year.

kind regards

Pete

P9040159.jpg

Hi Pete,

Beautiful Car.  Another great colour combination. 

My 75 is not so pretty. 

Let me know when your arriving to have a look and I’ll pick you up from the airport.  Haha. 

Regards,

Graeme

 

 

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Hey Graeme, is there plans for an inlet/exhaust manifold to compliment the cylinder head?

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Hey Mo,

Not at the moment.

Depending on what owners preferences are they could go to an engineering company to get a copy of the original exhaust manifold made or any exhaust shop should be able to knock up a functional set of extractors/ tubular headers. A quick search reveals a vast difference in these. 

As far as the inlet manifold goes - a 77 inlet manifold fits them all if the owner wants to go the single down draft carburettor route. 

If it’s Dual carburettors they want to fit then the manifold depends on choice of carburettor. Some of the quick cars have twin SU’s, others two single throat downdraft Strombergs and others have Holley 94’s or Stromberg 97’s. I’ve even seen photographs of triple carburettors on one of these early engines which puzzled me a bit as they only have two inlet ports.

So there’s a fair bit of variation there - it’s too hard to cater for individual preferences. 

Regards,

Graeme Louk

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Hi Graeme

It's good to know that Ray's cylinder head patterns have survived. I have used two of Ray's aluminium sandwich heads over the years including one which was a prototype casting which he sent over to me to see whether I could use it. 

I first met Ray when he came to Western Australia in 1992 to compete with his 1929 Chrysler 75. He won that event and when I had my own Chrysler to restore three years later, I went to Ray to ask his advice.  He'd put a four speed 'box and a Ford diff into his 75 (which he later removed).

I race a 1927 (1928 model) Chrysler 72 Sports Roadster with a Chrysler 77 motor built as a basic replica of a car called Silverwings.  I most recently raced it at the Red Dust Revival 2019 at Lake Perkolilli in Western Australia (www.motoringpast.com.au).  The car was completed in 1997 and in about 2005 I put my first Ray Jones head on it.  The greatest challenge was not having to regularly replace head gaskets.  When Ray went to Mille Miglia and the Le Mans Classic he always took spare heads and gaskets.  For reliability, I'm now back to a standard, shaved head but another hotter engine I am building will have one of Ray's heads on it.

I guess this is a bit of background to indicate that I've spent a lot of time over the years trying to make my Chrysler go faster.  At the moment I am running a set of tuned extractors Ray gave me to see whether I could get some power improvements with them. He had them made for a set of SU carbs he put on his car. The pipes had to come out and up and over the SUs.  They look weird but it's all just about having fun anyway.  Extractors like this definitely provide more power over the standard manifold. On a right hand drive car like mine, the steering column and the fact that the intakes are under the exhaust ports makes it very tight to get that hot exhaust gas efficiently out of the engine bay.

Yes, Ray's found that at over about 8 or 8.5:1 compression there wasn't any point in lifting the compression any higher.  Also, he experimented, and so have we with what to do with the two intakes which limit the "air pump".  He tried all sorts of carb combos. I am running with a couple if English Zenith updrafts which were sold in Australia as a replacement carb for Buicks.  They've always been good but it gets down to how much air can you get into the engine and not have it migrate between the cylinders.  Our latest engine has baffles inside the block to see whether this, along with the overlap, can work better. That then led to the obvious solution which is supercharging.  I have Ray's bitsnpieces in my shed from his work on using Wade superchargers from a Commer "Knocker" engine.  I've never got around to finishing off this side of things but it seems like obvious way of getting more horsepower from the Chrysler engine which is too constricted on the intake side.

There are other ways to make the engines a bet more spirited.  The counterbalanced crank is heavy and some weight can be taken off the flywheel.  The oil pump can also be swapped for one with Ford V8 gears.  On the engine we've been building for many years, it has a new oil pump made by Ray to give more volume and reliable pressure.

Ray really was the master of making the 1920s chrysler engines reach their full potential.  He once gave me his 75 to drive through Sydney while he had something to do in his garage.  The cars was sensational. I couldn't  believe how free-revving it was compared to my car.

Ray's passing was a great loss.  He had experimented with just abut everything to do with a vintage Chrysler engine. 

Congratulations on making Ray's heads available again. 

All the best

Graeme

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4 hours ago, Graeme1938 said:

Hey Mo,

Not at the moment.

Depending on what owners preferences are they could go to an engineering company to get a copy of the original exhaust manifold made or any exhaust shop should be able to knock up a functional set of extractors/ tubular headers. A quick search reveals a vast difference in these. 

As far as the inlet manifold goes - a 77 inlet manifold fits them all if the owner wants to go the single down draft carburettor route. 

If it’s Dual carburettors they want to fit then the manifold depends on choice of carburettor. Some of the quick cars have twin SU’s, others two single throat downdraft Strombergs and others have Holley 94’s or Stromberg 97’s. I’ve even seen photographs of triple carburettors on one of these early engines which puzzled me a bit as they only have two inlet ports.

So there’s a fair bit of variation there - it’s too hard to cater for individual preferences. 

Regards,

Graeme Louk

 

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if the larger engines (than my series 62, only 180ci) were two or three port inlets. I would imagine twin SU (HIF44's) would wake those big engines right up. Not sure how a triple would work.

 

I will be experimenting with a single SU (HIF44) on my 62. Not for more power but rather for drive-ability at low speeds - 10 -35mph range and throttle response.

 

IMAG2779.thumb.jpg.49506b6f75198aca522a08f0ec3c32bb.jpgIMAG2778.thumb.jpg.c9663b87415710b455e7a90c42cdc276.jpg

 

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50 minutes ago, maok said:

 

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if the larger engines (than my series 62, only 180ci) were two or three port inlets. I would imagine twin SU (HIF44's) would wake those big engines right up. Not sure how a triple would work.

 

I will be experimenting with a single SU (HIF44) on my 62. Not for more power but rather for drive-ability at low speeds - 10 -35mph range and throttle response.

 

IMAG2779.thumb.jpg.49506b6f75198aca522a08f0ec3c32bb.jpgIMAG2778.thumb.jpg.c9663b87415710b455e7a90c42cdc276.jpg

My 75 Roadster has the most awful updraft on it at the moment. I don’t know what it is. I want to go back to an OS2 ???? Off a 1928 series 72 until it comes off the road for a complete engine build. 

When that happens I’ve been tossing up as I have two new HD8 SU’s. 

I like that I can buy new Stromberg 97’s and they look the goods on a flathead but don’t like that I have to spend my cash.

The flip side is I have the SU’s and so it’s mostly just labour. If I fit the SU’s they’ll be on long inlet tracts curved back over the head. 

I have plenty of time just no cash at the moment. 

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3 hours ago, Graeme1938 said:
4 hours ago, maok said:

 

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if the larger engines (than my series 62, only 180ci) were two or three port inlets. I would imagine twin SU (HIF44's) would wake those big engines right up. Not sure how a triple would work.

 

I will be experimenting with a single SU (HIF44) on my 62. Not for more power but rather for drive-ability at low speeds - 10 -35mph range and throttle response.

 

IMAG2779.thumb.jpg.49506b6f75198aca522a08f0ec3c32bb.jpgIMAG2778.thumb.jpg.c9663b87415710b455e7a90c42cdc276.jpg

My 75 Roadster has the most awful updraft on it at the moment. I don’t know what it is. I want to go back to an OS2 ???? Off a 1928 series 72 until it comes off the road for a complete engine build. 

When that happens I’ve been tossing up as I have two new HD8 SU’s. 

I like that I can buy new Stromberg 97’s and they look the goods on a flathead but don’t like that I have to spend my cash.

The flip side is I have the SU’s and so it’s mostly just labour. If I fit the SU’s they’ll be on long inlet tracts curved back over the head. 

I have plenty of time just no cash at the moment. 

Yep, you're not mucking around with twin 2" SU's

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