Mark Kikta

1922 Starter-Gen & water pump shaft question

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And good job on drilling that hole!

 

We are batting 1000!

 

Pucker factor of 10. 

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Mark, 

I went with the roll pin because it was a smaller hole than for a bolt, and I could always do a bolt later if I wanted to.  These felt snug enough going in that they did not feel like they would come out easily and yet were not too tight that I would regret installing them.  Also be sure it is a roll pin and not a split pin.  There is a difference.

McMaster Carr calls them slotted spring pins (do not use) and Coiled spring pins. 

I do not know if these types of pins were available in the 20's.  Today these are a precision part from a heat treating perspective.   

Hugh

356909946_Pin-slottedspring-donotuse.JPG.364ee316cbeb5b942bcdfd3f403c77dd.JPG1047484128_Pin-coiledspringpin.JPG.b5acd29a454427978b01bcc9701d67d0.JPG

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

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Thanks Brian and Don.  I was sweating the load quite a bit getting ready to start drilling.  I didn’t want to screw up this nice water pump shaft Larry S made for me.  I think I’m off on the right track at least.  I will just brush some general purpose grease on these gears before I button it up.

 

Hugh,

Thanks for the info.  I ordered the wrong pin I guess.  So if I can’t make this screw work, I’ll order the right pin.   

A7F5D144-9AAF-45FC-A9E5-C1EBC86A97B8.jpeg

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Brian,

 

I tried to locate this line drawing for the 1922 and this is all I have.  It's not as clear but it looks different than the one you have for your 23.

This looks to me like it shows the flat side of the end plate outwards on both views.   Not trying to beat this to death but wondered what you think?

 

 

1922 Buick starter-gen line drawing.jpg

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Agree with you 

 

Just check clearance to the slinger lip on the collar that rotates. 

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Mark and all,

I made a new S/G shaft coupling and had it heat treated.  My thinking was I didn't want to end up with a new shaft and have an old coupling with the old holes and try to line the drilled shaft up with the existing holes.  I drilled and tapped a set screw hole to hold the coupling while the taper pin hole is being drilled.  This will all be done with the shaft in V-blocks and secured in place.  The extra set screw will not hurt a thing.  As I have mentioned before, I have literally gone to sleep thinking about how this project is going to go together.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PB030639.JPG

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On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 PM, Mark Kikta said:

Thanks Brian and Don.  I was sweating the load quite a bit getting ready to start drilling.  I didn’t want to screw up this nice water pump shaft Larry S made for me.  I think I’m off on the right track at least.  I will just brush some general purpose grease on these gears before I button it up.

 

Hugh,

Thanks for the info.  I ordered the wrong pin I guess.  So if I can’t make this screw work, I’ll order the right pin.   

A7F5D144-9AAF-45FC-A9E5-C1EBC86A97B8.jpeg


Mark

 

There is an overriding clutch in here too that needs to be cleaned and packed. 

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Terry,

 

I understand that.  I had a sleepless night worrying about drilling that hole properly as well.

 

Brian,

 

I need to take a much closer look then because all I saw in there was a set of gears that slid on a shaft to engage the flywheel and starter gears.  Thanks

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Don’t feel bad

 

i didn’t know there was a second clutch in there for years

 

It’s internal to the big gear much like the one on the distributor drive gear. 

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Brian,

 

so I got up early to investigate this before going off to work.  You are correct,  it looks like there is something behind that gear.  Now I get to remove that lite-weight starter again!

 

What is that clutch for?

59EFFBDC-7326-4C58-8694-BE47FFE49EE3.jpeg

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When the engine fires and the pinion is still momentarily engaged, this clutch lets the pinion gear over speed and spin freely in only that direction. 
 

Same thing on the other end. It isolates the torque of the starter yet allows it to be driven to make electricity. 

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So, from the moment that the lever on the switch in the dash panel is turned on and a person removes their foot from the starter pedal after the engine catches and begins running, there is a whole lot of things going on under the hood all at the same time within a few seconds.  Amazing.  Absolutely Amazing what was going on over 100 years ago.  Brian, thanks for your explanation about this particular feature in the Delco Starting System.  I must admit that I was not totally aware of just how this part of the starting process worked.  Never too old to learn.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Here is a photo of the guts of that clutch (often called a "sprag"). First, before cleaning, second, disassembled.

CIMG4562.JPG

CIMG4619.JPG

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Brian abd Don,

 

Thank you both for that information. I will get that apart and cleaned so that it works.  Light oil or grease to lube it?  looks like it could get gummed up easily.

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I don’t know if the 24 Master is different than the 25 Master, the shaft the clutched gear runs on has a small step on it so one end has a slightly larger diameter which allows it to only be removed one way. If removed the wrong way it FU’S the bushing in the gear and you still won’t get it out. Please don’t ask how I know this...

Jim

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After trying to knock the shaft out for these gears with the biggest hammer I have,  I give up.  I believe I got that large gear sliding clutch pretty clean using 3 cans of brake clean. It now moves separate from the small gear in one direction only like its supposed to.  So I intend to grease it up and keep moving along.

FFD4B99B-508B-4E65-8C51-E362E615567D.jpeg

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The gear shaft has a step in it. It has to be driven toward the front of the engine to come out.

You can bearely see the step at the right in this photo

CIMG4583.JPG

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Mark

 

I did exactly the same thing. 
 

That box/ear/mount that holds the gears was packed with old grease I dug out with an old bent spoon like a small shovel. 

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