Would Dynamite loosen this Hub up ?

[Mark Gregory 414]

My friend has been trying to separate this for quite a while now.

Where his finger is pointing is the problem area he cannot get it to separate.

 

They came off my 27 Pontiac easily. the REO truck has the drum sandwiched between the inner and outer hub flanges... great design... it will never fail... the inner hub should just drop thru the outer flange... won't budge. 

 

Vehicle details 

1915 REO Speed Wagon, Mkdel F,  4 cylinder, 1500 pound truck with 12 bolt rear wheels and 15" brake drums.

I have also soaked the hub in penetrating oil for days, filed off any burrs around the outer hub flange and tried various "tapping methods" to break the hub free from the spokes.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mark Gregory (see edit history)

[TerryB 1,719]

That’s the problem!  It’s a blind junction (as in we can’t see it).

[keiser31 4,447]

7 minutes ago, TerryB said:

That’s the problem!  It’s a blind junction (as in we can’t see it).

Sorry. Late posting this....

[TerryB 1,719]

Aha!  DoD as in delay of data!  

[Stude17 87]

More photographs including the rear would be helpful.  However, from what I can see is your friend sure that this can be separated ie it looks like a one piece casting to me but as I said more photos are needed.

 

I would suggest that photos of the rear would show that this hub is removed by taking off the brake drum (if a rear) or a flange if a front hub with no brake drum.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Stude17
More information (see edit history)

[Hupp36 110]

To the  right of  his  finger,  whats  that  round  thing  that  looks  like  a  pin or  a  set  screw?

[Carolina Chevrolet 14]

It does not look to me like it's suppose to come apart there. It fits upon a keyed shaft and is likely one piece. 

[Gunsmoke 567]

This "hub" does not come apart, the hub and outer 12 bolt plate is one piece. The Drum on the other side of spokes is only part that comes off, and then the spokes as a set can be freed from this hub. The drums on these old wheels are a very tight fit to hub, as are the spokes. This photo shows a similar setup (in this case Dodge DC8) and once the nuts are released from bolts, bolts can be tapped out. While they normally then come apart easily, I would suggest supporting drum on a firm flat surface thru the spokes and a couple of hard whacks on end of hub stub (using a brass drift) in the drum should release spokes and drum from hub. A bit of heat on drum next to hub stub could also be tried and should not bother wood much and it is amazing how often a small amount of heat can ease pieces apart. I know the owner and will give him a call. 

[trini 140]

Gun smoke said it all. I do not think there is a joint where the finger is pointing. The joint is inside , the drum to the flange.  You are barking up the wrong tree my friend.

[FLYER15015 584]

X2 to what trini said. That is a "cast" step.

The "joint" is on the drum side.

 

Mike in Colorado

[trini 140]

Use 4 pieces of 2x4 about a foot long and make a square on a hard surface The spokes must rest on the 2x4. leaving the hub free with the drum facing up. Use a hot flame , quickly heat the inner edge of the drum(not red) quickly put a piece of hard wood on the hub (not the drum) and give it a good whack with a heavy sledge hammer. At first it might move about 14 thou, and repeat until the drum is off. If you want to remove the metal hub from  the spokes then , turn the wheel over with the outside hub facing up and gently tap each spoke downwards in a circular manner ,A LITTLE AT A TIME.    Number the spokes in a clockwise manner starting from the valve stem. Other that you will have to use a 50 ton press and some jigs

[Restorer32 1,576]

This does not come apart. If you succeed in getting it apart you will have broken it and will be looking for a good part.

[Gunsmoke 567]

I had a look at the actual assembly tonight, and it is much different than the Dodge DC8 shown earlier. The REO Truck setup has a large flange on inner part of hub that lies flat against the drum. Soooo...if it comes apart at all, front flange would need to break free from hub in some manner.  Just how it comes apart if at all, remains a mystery. We had several knowledgeable people look at it including a machinist, and still bewildered. Thought that the outer flange may be screwed onto the outer end of the hub, but that does not make much sense. Owner is now thinking he will leave it "as is" since he was only disassembling to refinish the wood spokes. Looks like they could be cleaned up and refurbished in place, they are pretty sound and should last like they are for 100 years or more!

Edited October 30, 2019 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[trini 140]

I do not think the brake drum is welded. on the hub. If the drum is removed  it is possible to remove the spokes. I did that on my 28 DB Senior  Had all the spokes on the floor, clean them and put them together.  One at a time.  There is no magic to it. It takes skill and patience. What I said in my last thread is not speculation but reality. 

[Stude17 87]

After reading Gunsmoke's update it is a little clearer to me what the problem is.  However, I am still of the view that looking at the outside of the hub that  this side is one piece ie the outside flange is part of the hub casting. If I am correct on the inside of the hub there is the brake drum and another flange which can be removed allowing the drum to come off and the hub to be pressed out of the spokes.  I have never seen such a flange before but it would certainly be beneficial and provide stiffening to the brake drum.  On some drums that I have removed the nuts on the circle of bolts holding it all together deforms bolt holes in the drum and indents the wooden spokes.  As to removing the inner flange the utmost care would be needed to avoid damage and I offer no advice as to how to proceed.  I would suggest that there is some form of machining on the inner flange (which can't be seen and is causing the removal problem) to locate the flange and drake drum on the hub.  Perhaps the owner is on the right track and to leave things as they are if the only issue is to re-finish the wood spokes.   Finally I would add that I have been wrong in my observations before so please take this as a "Suggestion only".

[Mark Gregory 414]

Here is some REO news...

I got the rear hub separated and the brake drum off.

The flange is a press fit and it was TIGHT!

No threads on the hub, no taper... just 100 years of rust... we put some heat on the front flange and pounded it off with an 8 pound sledge hammer! Not glamorous, but more effective than steady pressure in a press.

Even after soaking in penetrating oil for months... it never soaked thru the spokes. 

The hub was TIGHT in the wood and we fought for every inch.

[Mark Gregory 414]

Here is a picture of the wheel taken apart from the hub for cleaning.

Thanks for everyone's help with the situation.

 

Edited January 21 by Mark Gregory (see edit history)

[1937hd45 1,927]

Hope you numbered every spoke and their relation to the rim. Bob 

[viv w 118]

When reassembling your wheel, DO NOT try and press the hub thru the spokes, as you risk cracking or splitting them. It is best to place the rim on some blocks of 2x4, then "raise" the spokes towards the hub, so that you can get the hub started into the spokes. Next flip the wheel over so that the hub rests on the ground. Then proceed by tapping every alternate spoke with a wooden mallet, walking the spokes back into place, it is time consuming, so don't try and force the spokes into place.

Viv.

[1937hd45 1,927]

Before you start to take apart wheels 2,3 and 4 buy a can of Kroil, yes, it cost more than other penetrating  oils because it WORKS. Bob