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Packard carburetors


carbking

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From about 1905 through 1932, with the exception of a 4 month flirtation with Johnson, Packard used Detroit Lubricator carburetors on their passenger engines. However, Packard marine engines, beginning in about 1919 through ??? (my records show 1948) used Zenith carburetors. Also, while it is quite difficult to compare the Detroit Lubricator (air valve design) air flow to the Zenith (plain tube design); it appears that the Zenith would flow more air.

 

Anyone have any information as to why the two different carburetor companies were used, instead of using only one company?

 

Jon.

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I have no knowledge of this but the first thing that pops into my mind is that marine engines are always used at sea level or at some constant level on a lake, so altitude compensation doesn't come into it. Another is that they are running at high power and open throttle most of the time without the constant variation in speed necessary for cars. Then again maybe Zenith made better marine carbs.

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Rusty - interesting thought on the altitude. Carburetors require calibration changes with large altitude changes (how large depends on the design of the carbuetor). As to the speed (RPM) variation required for passenger vehicles), the early ('teens and 'twenties) Packard marine engines used Zenith type L carbs. The type L carbs were used on dozens of trucks, and several passenger vehicles.

 

One thought I had was some of the Detroit Lubricators used by Packard had the "glow plug" fuelizer.

 

At this point in time, really doesn't matter, except for my understanding.

 

Both are excellent carburetors when professionally rebuilt, although I prefer the Zenith as it does not have the air valve used by the pre-1929 Detroit Lubricators.

 

Jon.

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Was there such a thing as U.S. Coast Guard  approval for marine carbs that far back ? Perhaps Zenith felt the marine market was important enough to comply with the marine requirements and gain certification and Detroit Lubricator 

was not interested in the trouble of a niche market like Marine engines. Are Detroit lubricators ever OEM on any marine applications from any marine engine makers ?

 

Greg in Canada

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Greg - I honestly don't know, and seemingly, neither does Google ;) I don't think so, but would be happy if someone familiar with marine safely law were to chime into the conversation. 

 

I have marine catalogues from both Stromberg and Zenith from the 1930's. While both state that their marine carburetors are designed with marine safety in mind, there is no mention of the Coast Guard in either book.

 

And lots of larger marine engines from about 1929 to about 1950 were equipped with the Holley DD series carburetor (a.k.a. toilet bowl). These things leaked in the box before being placed on an engine!

 

Schebler was still manufacturing the model D carb into the early 1930's, and Schebler's concept of a choke to enrich the mixture was a "push button" on the top of the carburetor bowl, which, when pressed, would move the float such that the fuel valve no longer seated, and fuel went everywhere! 

 

While I have nothing in writing, I have been told that the Coast Guard required marine engines on the Great Lakes from the 1950's with the Carter type YH (horizontal or sidedraft) carburetors to place a device on the air intake which would funnel all leaks back to the intake manifold. Commonly known as a drip tube. This is the earliest mention of Coast Guard intervention with carburetors of which I am aware. The tube is connected to the hole in the air intake, makes a loop (for volume) and then connected on the other end to manifold vacuum. Any leakage when the engine was turned off would drip into the drip tube, be stored until the engine was cranked for starting, and then be sucked into the intake manifold.

 

Again, if someone versed in Coast Guard regulations history could chime in, I would be appreciative.

 

As far as the Detroit Lubricator Company is concerned:

 

Detroit Lubricator (to my knowledge) had no retail division; thus they printed no catalogues such as those printed by Stromberg and Zenith. What records I can find suggest Detroit was used almost exclusively on passenger vehicles, and a very few trucks.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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Don - some of both the Stromberg and Zenith marine carbs used brass fittings; not all of them. The carbs with brass fittings were available for marine owners that were ocean-going. Both Zenith and Stromberg also offered many marine carbs with bronze bodies. The cast iron bodies were Parkerized, which resisted corrosion until they got wet! ;)

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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Trying a different angle here:

 

Second-sourcing key components for products is just good business practice.  It could be that Packard was considering Zenith for their cars, but that's a risky change for a company with a reputation like Packards.

 

They would be much more willing to play with a smaller product line, like the Marine division, rather than risk the flagship car division.  This same practice is used in almost every business that exists today, so its not so hard to imagine Packard doing it too.

 

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