Some assistance on a vehicle

[Modernist]

Good Morning friends around the globe. 

I have been in the market for a few months for a Gen 1 Riviera,  this type of vehicle in South Africa was never a big importer so looking has been surprisingly easier than I initially thought. I have found so far has been a 1963 in black I have not yet had the chance to take it for a drive as the guy selling is doing final work on the vehicle I also dont know if its the 401 or the 425 BUT I assume the 401 the vehicle as per plate is a 63 that should have been Desert Sand and the interior should have been Sandelwood white these items have changed the paint is a decent job and the interior also seems to be in a good redone state. 

 

This morning I was able to check out a 1965 the exterior condition looks about the same as the 63 it has also been respreayed from original colour but interior is all original the seats are good except driver seat has a single tear on a seam the wood veneer would need to be replaced but otherwise in a decent condition for a 54YO vehicle the optional extras are also pretty kitted with electric windows and seats power steering and aircon (not sure how much is working but the buttons are there)  from what I can also tell this is a GS optioned vehicle but might be wrong here to.

There is however only 1 major issue that I am hoping you can assist with the care is 1965 except the front grill and side lights are 63-64 my limited knowledge on these vehicles says there is 1 of 2 reasons 
1. the vehicle was in a front end crash and the fenders and grill were changed 
2. the mechanism for the clam shell lights stopped working and a replacement grill was easiest fix. 

if its option 1 then I will stay away from the vehicle but is it possible its no. 2 and if so are the fenders of the 65 diffferent to the 63-64 and  is there a way to check and confirm. then I will over the next few years try get all parts together and return the vehicle to correct front end. 

 

Both cars are for sale for R300000.00 which is about $20322.00 as at today's exchange rate most of our vehicle market is determined by either UK or US depending on the vehicle in question and the cost to still import a vehicle. the 65' seller is still negotiable at that price. 

I have attached photos of both vehicles as well as body plates and what I can see as engine numbers on the 65 please give me some suggestions and ideas on these 2 please 

[Jim Cannon]

Both cars are kind of rough when you look beyond the shiny paint.

 

Don't get a '65 without the clamshell headlights.

 

Keep looking. Don't be in a rush.

 

How difficult would it be for you to import one from the USA? There are a lot of nice 1st gen. cars available here.

 

 

[Modernist]

Hi Jim the importing is not that big a deal and there are a few guys locally that can assist me with that BUT I am nervous to import as I wont get to personally see the vehicle or drive it before... the other issue is although we are allowed to legally import pre 66 left hookers the actual introduction on our local DMV is a little difficult and will be time consuming and costly... 

But maybe I will keep looking for something in the US as well locally there are very few of them... for the import costs tax duties and registering on our DMV I would have to get the vehicle at about $12000.00 for it to be on a similar cost to these that I have found 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Modernist (see edit history)

[dr914]

2 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

Both cars are kind of rough when you look beyond the shiny paint.

 

Don't get a '65 without the clamshell headlights.

 

Keep looking. Don't be in a rush.

 

How difficult would it be for you to import one from the USA? There are a lot of nice 1st gen. cars available here.

Jim is dead on the money, both cars are really rough and the 65/64 chop would be expensive to make right beyond the rest of the rough, however 65 is the one to have. I would buy a 65 here in the states and have it imported you can have one of us go and look at it for you and even wheel and deal a bit. Try to buy one from the southern states or california and you could not go wrong

2 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

 

 

[NC1968Riviera]

1 hour ago, Modernist said:

I wont get to personally see the vehicle or drive it before

If you are an ROA member, you could reach out to members close to a US car you are interested in to look at it for you. There are also professional car inspectors who will look at, test drive and send you a report for a fee.

 

Don't let a car being in the USA deter you from finding a better Riviera than those currently in your country.

It could potentially save you a lot of money by finding a better one over here and having it shipped over there.

 

Best of luck.

[steelman]

Definitely have 63-64 fenders on the 65. Hood has a 64 emblem on it, but the entire front sheet metal looks to have been changed.

[awk409ak]

Hi,

Briefly here's my thoughts.  1. First I agree with the above comments on the condition of the two car.  2. Let me just add that it is also hard when not knowing your intent of the car.  Are you going to be a purist and try to restore one ($$$$) or just make it look nice and drive it around wherever you are at.  I think down there it will be quite hard to find parts for these car.  Something think about.

 

Art  

[telriv]

Yes, AND IF you need parts which you will more than likely get from the U.S.A. then you have shipping costs, import duty fees & whatever else your country imposes on these parts.  So the better condition car you find will save you MANY $$$$$ in the long run.

 

Just my thoughts & opinions.

 

Tom T.

[RivNut]

Look at these two numbers on the 65 with the 64 front end.  The numbers should match (I can't tell by the pictures) if this is the original engine to the body.  In the other picture of the stamped numbers on the engine, I see an L and a T. These numbers would indicate a 1965 401.  The Gran Sport glove box covers appears to be the only thing about the car that is Gran Sport.  The side marker lights are not original for any 1st generation Riviera.  The white vinyl top is an aftermarket add on.

 

Take the advice of the previous posters and find a known proper car.  There are lots of guys around who would be more than happy to look at cars for you.  Join the ROA (link in my signature) and peruse the classifieds for Rivieras for sale.  Pick one owned by a member and have another membervlookmit over for you.  

I'm not familiar with your climate but I'd think up that you'd want an air conditioned car as well.

 

 

 

That misplaced fuel filter is wrong twice - wrong filter in the wrong place.

[first64riv]

I agree with what everyone has said.  Also, don't let your emotions get in the way (if they are).  You don't want the wrong car especially considering where you are located.  Take your time as others have said and get the right car.

 

 

[steelman]

"The side marker lights are not original for any 1st generation Riviera."

 

Correct, these are from a Chrysler product.

[telriv]

NO the marker lights do not, BUT I believe they are required in his country.

[Modernist]

Good Morning Everyone and thank you for the advice 

I was sort of emotionally involved in this vehicle BUT all your points make very valid sense, I am going to persue the market place again. I am also today doing some research on the requirements on importing but the first thing that I checked is a letter of authority from our DMV to import a vehicle the LOA will require the vehicle details incl engine and chassis numbers it is not 100% guaranteed I will get the LOA and it takes up to 120 days... 

So during this 120days the seller will have to wait on me to make sure I get the LOA before sale can be finalized so it makes it very difficult already I am going to get some other costs in this morning

[Modernist]

Very quick calculations done today with assistance from a guy that does already import vehicles to South Africa, 

If I buy a vehicle in the US at a price of $10000.00 all costs included to get to South Africa including duties etc the final price of the vehicle landed here will be about R360000.00 which would be about $24000.00

the exchange rate is a killer and to further injury it seems that the South African law states that a vehicle built before 1965 is exempt from right hand drive so a 65 would have to be converted to Right Hand Drive 

Back to the markets on line

 

[NC1968Riviera]

35 minutes ago, Modernist said:

a 65 would have to be converted to Right Hand Drive 

Would buying a RHD Riviera from a UK, Australia or New Zealand seller be an option?

Edited October 23, 2019 by NC1968Riviera (see edit history)

[RivNut]

14 minutes ago, NC1968Riviera said:

Would buying a RHD Riviera from a UK, Australia or New Zealand seller be an option?

Or you could "settle" for a 63 or a 64.  Subtle differences.  Mechanically the 63, 64, and 65 are mainly different in their transmissions. The 63 has the Dynaflow; the 64 has the ST400, and the 65 has the ST400 with variable pitch torque converter.  63 and 64 share the same body whereas the 65 has the hidden headlights and the tail lights in the bumper. Others may chime in with the other little differences but most are cosmetic only.   Once you're behind the wheel and on the road, there's little, if any, discernable differences. 

 

The 63 that you pictured is a base model if I've ever seen one.. The only option shown on the data plate is the provision for a radio.  Things like a tilt wheel, power windows and seats, air conditioning, and tinted glass make your ride a little more comfortable.

[telriv]

AND, the '64 is faster than all of them because it's slightly lighter!!!

[BulldogDriver]

9 hours ago, RivNut said:

Or you could "settle" for a 63 or a 64.  Subtle differences.  Mechanically the 63, 64, and 65 are mainly different in their transmissions. The 63 has the Dynaflow; the 64 has the ST400, and the 65 has the ST400 with variable pitch torque converter.  63 and 64 share the same body whereas the 65 has the hidden headlights and the tail lights in the bumper. Others may chime in with the other little differences but most are cosmetic only.   Once you're behind the wheel and on the road, there's little, if any, discernable differences. 

 

The 63 that you pictured is a base model if I've ever seen one.. The only option shown on the data plate is the provision for a radio.  Things like a tilt wheel, power windows and seats, air conditioning, and tinted glass make your ride a little more comfortable.

And a lot more fun to work on!

[5632]

BulldogDriver - Good opinion, but I like your Bulldog better.  I have had them for over 60 years and the only reason I like them is because it is the only dog that I am smarter than. 

[RivNut]

43 minutes ago, 5632 said:

BulldogDriver - Good opinion, but I like your Bulldog better.  I have had them for over 60 years and the only reason I like them is because it is the only dog that I am smarter than. 

You never met Maudie Potts. Our basset hound. Dumber than dirt.  Would jump on her doghouse and bark at us to let her in out of the rain. She'd go inside on a nice day but stand out in the rain and bark. She ran away and it took my (ex)wife three days to decide that the dog wasn't worth looking for.  Her dog, her choice.

[psychostang]

I enlarged the pictures, and I think the engine serial number is 5H908265.  The production code looked like LV 130 or 180.  Definately not the original engine to the car, as per the vin.

 

[RivNut]

Look at the stamping and see if you can see a T part way under the worm clamp for the radiator hose.

 

Numbers have yet to be decoded.  Best guess is assembly line shift indicators.  They have no bearing on the physical dimensions of the engine. 

 

Don't know about the V; it's upsde down to the rest of the stampings.  Relevant ?????  No record of any V codes that have been used. 

[psychostang]

I enlarged and rotated the pic, and what I see is an L under the bypass hose.

 

[1965rivgs]

On 10/22/2019 at 3:46 AM, Modernist said:

Good Morning friends around the globe. 

I have been in the market for a few months for a Gen 1 Riviera,  this type of vehicle in South Africa was never a big importer so looking has been surprisingly easier than I initially thought. I have found so far has been a 1963 in black I have not yet had the chance to take it for a drive as the guy selling is doing final work on the vehicle I also dont know if its the 401 or the 425 BUT I assume the 401 the vehicle as per plate is a 63 that should have been Desert Sand and the interior should have been Sandelwood white these items have changed the paint is a decent job and the interior also seems to be in a good redone state. 

 

This morning I was able to check out a 1965 the exterior condition looks about the same as the 63 it has also been respreayed from original colour but interior is all original the seats are good except driver seat has a single tear on a seam the wood veneer would need to be replaced but otherwise in a decent condition for a 54YO vehicle the optional extras are also pretty kitted with electric windows and seats power steering and aircon (not sure how much is working but the buttons are there)  from what I can also tell this is a GS optioned vehicle but might be wrong here to.

There is however only 1 major issue that I am hoping you can assist with the care is 1965 except the front grill and side lights are 63-64 my limited knowledge on these vehicles says there is 1 of 2 reasons 
1. the vehicle was in a front end crash and the fenders and grill were changed 
2. the mechanism for the clam shell lights stopped working and a replacement grill was easiest fix. 

if its option 1 then I will stay away from the vehicle but is it possible its no. 2 and if so are the fenders of the 65 diffferent to the 63-64 and  is there a way to check and confirm. then I will over the next few years try get all parts together and return the vehicle to correct front end. 

 

Both cars are for sale for R300000.00 which is about $20322.00 as at today's exchange rate most of our vehicle market is determined by either UK or US depending on the vehicle in question and the cost to still import a vehicle. the 65' seller is still negotiable at that price. 

I have attached photos of both vehicles as well as body plates and what I can see as engine numbers on the 65 please give me some suggestions and ideas on these 2 please 

  The `65 in this thread does indeed have a correct `65 low compression 401engine option. The correct engine stamp is "LV". Buick produced 281 Rivieras in `65 with this option. It does not appear this engine was originally installed in this car however, as the VIN numbers do not match.

Tom Mooney

[psychostang]

I berlieve the low compression engnies were also referred to as "export."

[1965rivgs]

26 minutes ago, psychostang said:

I berlieve the low compression engnies were also referred to as "export."

  That is correct. Obviously the engines were no doubt installed in cars destined for locations with low octane fuel. The only other possibility I can imagine is a destination at which horsepower level was used to levy taxes or flat out eliminate importation via trade agreements or legislation. But this low compression engine option was equipped with a 4 barrel carb so deliberately lowering the horsepower level doesnt seem to have been the goal.

  The low compression Nailhead engine options for export were also available for other years and resulted in the factory installation of 401 engines in the `64 and `66 Rivieras. "ALL `64 and `66 Rivieras must have a 425 to be "correct" "....not so!!

Tom

Edited October 30, 2019 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)