Sloth

1903 Cleveland Roadster project

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Hello Harm,

Much ado about the Coronavirus!  We best certainly play by the rules.  Parts of the US are really starting to get serious now.  We have had our first fatality in Utah.  I am impressed that you are being on top of a bit of progress on your Cleveland.  This is certainly a different year, most events have cancelled, movement is restricted and may be for most of the year.  It is good that we live, (you and I) where we do and have a bit of open space....

Regards,

Alan

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Today, got the sleeve end of the rear axle completed, its sleeve end axle HE 37 on the drawing. Soldered one of bronze gears of the compensating gear (differential) that is HE 25 on the drawing,  on the sleeve end.  Furthermore assembled the bearing HE 26 on the sleeve end. Had some trouble adjusting the lock nut against the adjustable bearing flange, guess that I have to make some special tools for it.

 

1792389067_Pag4.jpg.cb0b6e3ea82d2b953f5e771c7d67594c.jpg

Drawing of the rear axle.

 

74529124_Partofstubaxle.jpg.a58a6d9e4da0ee15853cabe2af16cadc.jpg

Sleeve end axle with part of the compensating gear housing

 

Tomorrow I will show more detailed and better pictures, the camera battery got empty (forgot it yesterday to put it on the loader).

 

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

The rear end from your Cleveland is sure unique!  Keep up the good work while you have you head under the covers with this Coronavirus pandemic going on.

Regards,

Alan

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Posted (edited)

Yesterday and today, I worked on the rear axle (to cold and windy for working outside). First I  had to mill two key ways for the bronze compensation gear on the axle bar HE 36 on the drawing. Next, milled the key way for the brake drum. After that and thoroughly cleaning the axle bar, I soldered the bronze compensation gear on the axle bar. After cleaning, at long last I assembled the compensation gear and large chain sprocket. Wonder how many decades this axle was last seen assembled and functioning. 

 

1212387649_Millingkeywayforcompensationgear.jpg.b4cc85bc72e518a74d588412be2b0f35.jpg

Milling key ways

 

420283284_Bearingsleeveaxle.jpg.2eb310960cd1398e4f75d9321973fad6.jpg

Bearing sleeve axle

 

1203447310_Compensationdrumsleeveaxleside.jpg.648c996c3806f9d25a8250137245f190.jpg

Compensation gear drum, sleeve axle side

 

2002950022_Compensationgears.jpg.6a55152cb99efc0cddb0fd392f9d12df.jpg

Compensation gears with bronze trust rings

 

1032143074_Completedcompensationgearandlargechainsprocketsleevaxleside.jpg.c5476a760e15956c3dbbe0fcfdee114e.jpg

Completed compensation drum, sleeve axle side

 

486466563_Completedcompensationgearandlargechainsprocket.jpg.ab5dabfb0247b9bcd72fee02859c0bdd.jpg

Completed compensation drum, axle bar side

 

Assembly of the axle and compensation gears went OK, but after tightening all the nut and bolts I detected a 'heavy point'. I can rotate the bar and sleeve axle independent of each other for about 5/6 of a full rotation. After that, I feel more and more 'friction', must investigate it tomorrow.

 

To brake or not to brake, that is my question.

 

598205555_Mitchellbrakedrum.jpg.01c64cbff04acd9671eedb41d7200a13.jpg

Mitchell 1903 brake drum

 

1214820216_RemtrommelsMitchell1904.jpg.702c6f3f98f77c1df31742090d8ab725.jpg

Mitchell 1904 brake drum

 

Gentlemen, I have a question, when I purchased this car there where no brake drums included😉.  As I have no idea other than a blurred picture from a catalog, my question is: does any of you, have any knowledge of this type of brake drums? I have some pictures of the brake drums of a 1903 and 1904 Mitchell. As a last resort I can make a model and have them cast.... But if one of you have them laying around and is willing to supply me with the dimensions and  some details I would be very happy. As far as I can see the drum is split in the middle. Are both halves identical, and how are they assembled on the axle?

 

Regards,

Harm

 

Edited by Sloth
Several (see edit history)
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Hello Harm,

Nice work on the rear end assembly.  You are going to have a solid unit when you are done, one that you will trust on the road!  I wish I could help with the rear brake drums, but unfortunately I can't.

Regards,

Al 

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It looks to me as if you already have the answer a few posts back...on pages 7 & 8 of the Eames catalog.

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Hello Harm,

Have you run through the snug spot and determined what the issue could be?  I am certainly impressed with your craftsmanship and mechanical abilities.  No matter how good you build your engine, if the rear end is not correct the Cleveland simply will not be enjoyed!  That is my "two cents" for the day.  Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Al

PS:  The New York area of the US is really starting to put down some sad statistics that relate to the Coronavirus outbreak.  I sure hope we can slow the Pandemic down, until it dies out!

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

It looks to me as if you already have the answer a few posts back...on pages 7 & 8 of the Eames catalog.

Hello Joe, 

Yes you are right, but, it still leaves my question unanswered: how are the two  brake drum halves on the ends connected to each other? I guess the two halves are bolted to the axle with the large square headed bolts, and secured by a key. But I don't think the ends are mounted flat on each other without any means of securing.

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Have you run through the snug spot and determined what the issue could be?  I am certainly impressed with your craftsmanship and mechanical abilities.  No matter how good you build your engine, if the rear end is not correct the Cleveland simply will not be enjoyed!  That is my "two cents" for the day.  Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Al

PS:  The New York area of the US is really starting to put down some sad statistics that relate to the Coronavirus outbreak.  I sure hope we can slow the Pandemic down, until it dies out!

Hello Al,

Yes I determined the issue. Started this morning at 6 o'clock, wanted this issue solved. When I bought the car, the compensation gear drums were heavily beaten up. So, after a lot of hammering and using some heat, I got the drums back in shape. But after assembling and using all the nuts and bolts, as were foreseen by the manufacturer, the bar axle drum bushing became slightly deformed. That is, not parallel anymore with the a axle bar. The deformation was not very much, but enough to cause a snug spot. So after a lot of measuring and  using machinists blue, I got it fixed by using the shop press. Pressed one side of the drum a little bit down, that did the trick. As usual: finding the cause of the problem takes a lot of time, the remedy not so much.

 

The Corona virus: our government will announce tomorrow what for the next couple of weeks the measures will be. I expect a prolongation of the already taken measures. Medical experts say that the curves flatten a bit, so new stricter measure are not needed (yet). But, hospitals are scaling up their intensive care departments and that worries me a lot. In the larger cities, temporary emergency  hospitals (700 beds and up) are build, some hotels are furnished by now, for patients other than Corona victims. The medical army corps is also put on duty at the hospitals. As I live in the neighborhood of a large army base, we see a lot of movements with trucks and ambulances. It seems they are gearing up for quick deployment. Its is a fact that our country nearly has come to a stand still. Also are our neighboring countries. Very depressing indeed.

Regards,

Harm

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Posted (edited)

I doubt there is anything holding the two halves of the brake drum together aside from the bolts in the middle. It's a conventional "machine" part of the day. I think the surfaces of the two halves were probably ground and then carefully fitted together and turned on a mandrel so the OD would be concentric. It may be that the hole in the center was smaller at first and that it was bored with the two halves bolted after which the OD was turned. If they were going to add further support, I suspect there would have been through bolts in the center web at the outside extremities of the circle.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I doubt there is anything holding the two halves of the brake drum together aside from the bolts in the middle. It's a conventional "machine" part of the day. I think the surfaces of the two halves were probably ground and then carefully fitted together and turned on a mandrel so the OD would be concentric. It may be that the hole in the center was smaller at first and that it was bored with the two halves bolted after which the OD was turned. If they were going to add further support, I suspect there would have been through bolts in the center web at the outside extremities of the circle.

Hello Joe,

Thanks for the explanation. Seems doable for me. So a casting model is the first thing to make. Would be a challenge to find a foundry who is still in business, most of them scaled down or suspended business. The Corona virus has a lot of impact on our lives.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

 

Its wonderful to see your progress on this project! In regards to foundry work, over here in the states we have a very active backyard metal casting community. Most cast aluminum but there are some that can do cast iron. I am wondering if there might be people in the Netherlands,  England etc. that are active as well and can take the job on? There is at least one Facebook group. Perhaps that might help make a connection to someone local.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/975721692468728/

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3 hours ago, Terry Harper said:

Hello Harm,

 

Its wonderful to see your progress on this project! In regards to foundry work, over here in the states we have a very active backyard metal casting community. Most cast aluminum but there are some that can do cast iron. I am wondering if there might be people in the Netherlands,  England etc. that are active as well and can take the job on? There is at least one Facebook group. Perhaps that might help make a connection to someone local.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/975721692468728/

Hello Terry,

Thank you, that is  a wonderful idea, never thought of that. Did not find Dutchmen at the Facebook group, I will ask my British friends. I will keep you informed about the progress.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

I am enjoying your progress and getting to see some very unusual early engineering all at the same time.  If you get to the point that you want to proceed with the castings and have your pattern built,  I am with-in 50 miles of a small commercial foundry that is willing to do small projects for me.  (I shared much business with them while working as a Planner at a power generation station so they try to help me back).  I could get your drums made from grey iron if you so desire.

Regards,

Alan

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3 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

I am enjoying your progress and getting to see some very unusual early engineering all at the same time.  If you get to the point that you want to proceed with the castings and have your pattern built,  I am with-in 50 miles of a small commercial foundry that is willing to do small projects for me.  (I shared much business with them while working as a Planner at a power generation station so they try to help me back).  I could get your drums made from grey iron if you so desire.

Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan,

Thank you for your generous offer, I will keep it in mind.  Yes you are right, the rear axle is indeed a piece of unusual engineering, even in 1903 it was considered as somewhat 'old fashioned'. To my opinion, it is a rather clever design. No complicated gears, reliable and sturdy, good enough for a light car, considering the road conditions of that era. The axle bar is a massive 1 1/2" piece of C45 carbon steel. Today I put everything together, pored some oil into the compensation drum and.... it leaked like a sieve😡. Remedy: very thick oil with a grease like consistency, now it does not leak anymore. I wonder how it behaves when we go for a ride (well, that will take a while ☺️).

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

These old cars I think simply leaked oil at best!

Regards,

Alan

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Love reading this saga...my first post. Congratulations on taking on this very special project. You are a brave man in addition to your many talents!
Were the early cars (say pre-1909) lubrication systems known as “total loss lubrication”?

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On 4/2/2020 at 4:30 AM, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

Love reading this saga...my first post. Congratulations on taking on this very special project. You are a brave man in addition to your many talents!
Were the early cars (say pre-1909) lubrication systems known as “total loss lubrication”?

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, its called "total loss lubrication". After pouring in the heavier oil, it drips a so now and then a bit, I am OK with it.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

It appears that you are about up to building a pattern for the brake drum.  What else are you doing while that part is in process?  I planted onions a few days ago then it promptly froze hard enough that they are probably done for already....I may get to replant.

Regards,

Alan

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Posted (edited)
On 4/5/2020 at 4:30 PM, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

It appears that you are about up to building a pattern for the brake drum.  What else are you doing while that part is in process?  I planted onions a few days ago then it promptly froze hard enough that they are probably done for already....I may get to replant.

Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan,

Sorry to hear about the unions, what kind of unions did you plant? 

Not much Cleveland progress. Saturday I made a bearing dust cap, I need 2 for each bearing. One bearing is complete, the other not. Missing one dust cap. So I made one. Turned a  two chunks of steel to 4 " diameter,  cut disk 5" diameter,  of 1/16" steel sheet.   Put the sheet centered between the steel chuncks, and clamped the whole lot under the  shop pres. Hammered an edge on the disk (used some heat to get it crisp and sharp). Later I turned the cap to original dimensions.  The result can be seen below, the green one is the original one, the metal colored one is the new one.

 

2024411585_Bearingcaps.thumb.jpg.02a8bede5b3d9bee92220fef6e1d12cb.jpg

Bearing dust caps

 

Tomorrow I continue with the brake drum pattern. The pattern consists of two halves, not complicated to make, just a lot of work.

 

The non Cleveland related activities: building a front end loader (FEL) for the Iseki mini / midi tractor (see picture) . Last week I completed the FEL towers left / right, see picture. But now  I am in need of some steel slab, but at this moment I don't like it to go to the steel shop to get it. Well, it can wait, helping Anna with the erection of the temporary green house. Its a diy kit; steel tube and plastic sheet.

 

1012310226_Frontendloadertower.jpg.dea7dfb07ed29fa3e75564894f98f441.jpg

FEL tower

 

1439521222_IsekiLandleader235.jpg.2838d103f76fa60a3c2c0983e640bb0a.jpg

Iseki tracktor "Landleader 235", cat always keeps me company, I feed and cuddle her. (cat belongs to our neighbors, cat is not so sure about it.... 😁)

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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Hello Harm,

I am very impressed with your Cleveland dust covers! The Iseki tractor looks like a well built unit.  Diesel?  Three point hitch?  Cat looks familiar.  Our neighborhood has a small flock of cats that just migrate around and chum up to everyone, including our feed dish!  I like the addition of front hanging weights, on the front of your tractor, for draft work.  I suppose that you are going to remove them so your loader can effectively be closer to the front axle resulting in better weight distribution?  Are you going to build some extra ballast to hang on the back of the tractor for the times you use the tractor as a loader?  Since I rebuilt my loader it is much more a pleasure to run, cuts much more evenly. etc. etc.  What kind of updates can you share about COVID-19 in your area?  We are certainly staying close to home...I mean at home or the farm.  You an Anna take care and stay with your current low profile in the public eyes.  It will be way better!  My onions, that do not look real good because of very cold unseasonal weather for a few days, are "Yellow Candy" type.  They are very good tasting onions and are good for long term storage in the cellar.  I will be replanting a good share of the onion patch today or tomorrow.  Thanks for your update. 

Regards,

Alan

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Hello Harm,

So far so good for my family and I.  (no coronavirus)!  What is you status on the Pandemic and the Cleveland?  I am getting ready for my first seasonal irrigation by mid week.

Regards,

Alan

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Hello Alan,

Not much going on here. Good to read that you and your family are OK. Anna and I are fine too. This is the 4th week we stayed at home. No visitors and no shopping, no problem for me, but Anna becomes a bit restless. The Corona situation in the Netherlands: according to the health authorities,  the number of new cases and the death toll from Covid-19 virus, is decreasing slowly. But, due to Easter, there could be a time lag in recording. We will see tomorrow.

Regarding the Cleveland, I made 12 nuts for the rear axle compensating gears. 3/8" UNF x 11/16" spanner width.

 

1476081098_Nuts3.jpg.c9bef848ee4929294240509e4b045be6.jpg

One nut (bottom up)

 

421479310_Nuts2.thumb.jpg.afb8a5e3044d1fe26590e64fbbae9dc4.jpg

12 Nuts

 

Further, I have to mention a set back. At close inspection,  the top rear spring leave (right side) showed a crack near one of the two eyes. I guess something went wrong with the manufacturing 😰. Looks to me they forgot to temper this leave after the hardening, the file test showed no marks what so ever... Well, long story short, at the moment no spring manufacturer has his business open. All closed by government order.  I have to wait till the whole Corona thing is over.

Next, as the temperatures are improving, painting the rear axle and the wheels (for the final coat). That means wet sanding 48 spokes etc. Most of you know what this means..... Next job will be, mounting the front axle and steering assembly.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

Hopefully all is well, yard work done, wife happy, garden planted and progress on the Cleveland.

Al

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Hopefully all is well, yard work done, wife happy, garden planted and progress on the Cleveland.

Al

Hello Allan,

Yes, most of the jobs are done. Wife reasonable happy... At the moment we have very nice weather,  dry, sunny and  day temperatures around 61F, the nights are still cold. Most of our fruit trees are blooming, very nice time of the year.

Regarding the Corona virus, all car club events have been canceled. I doubt if we will attend any classic car related event this year. Rumor goes that our government will forbid all events this year,  including sports, cars, parties, shows, and so on. Well, better staying at home, healthy and grumpy, than 5 feet below the Daffodils. That reminds me, a trip to the Barbershop would do me a lot of good.....😊, but they are closed.

 

 Less progress on the Cleveland than I wished for. I need the green PU paint. Ordered it by mail, but I have to wait 2 weeks 😒 , its Corona virus related.... Yesterday I sanded one wheel, took a few hours, afterwards my arm fell off ☹️. Clearly not used to this kind of job anymore.

 

149898959_Sandedwheel.jpg.1a003e35dff9ac8d4baf219a6290f4dc.jpg

Sanded wheel

Regards,

Harm

 

 

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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