Luv2Wrench Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I will use calipers to make smaller measurements because it is not only accurate, it is easier for me to read and remember. You can also zero them on one piece and then quickly get the difference with another... ie; how much it needs to come down by to fit. That eliminates my math mistakes. I stop short of using micrometers of course. The one thing I'd love to have from metal work to wood work is Dykem blue. I have a hard time following the lines my awl leaves in the wood and anything I can see like pencil lines are too thick. All in all I do think my wood working accuracy improved some after learning metal work. I enjoy both a lot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said: I will use calipers to make smaller measurements because it is not only accurate, it is easier for me to read and remember. You can also zero them on one piece and then quickly get the difference with another... ie; how much it needs to come down by to fit. That eliminates my math mistakes. I stop short of using micrometers of course. The one thing I'd love to have from metal work to wood work is Dykem blue. I have a hard time following the lines my awl leaves in the wood and anything I can see like pencil lines are too thick. All in all I do think my wood working accuracy improved some after learning metal work. I enjoy both a lot. Hello Luv2Wrench, I fully agree with you. A kind of Dykem blue usable for wood would be very welcome. I too have problems with the small lines, to be honest I can't hardly see them, so I use a very small pencil line. The problem with this is I have to remember on which side of the line I must saw or mill. Regards, Harm Edited November 30, 2019 by Sloth Typo corrected (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Hello gentlemen, Sorry to disappoint you, no gluing today. Got unexpected visitors, nice, so my planning came to nothing. Well Monday I will start again. Have a nice weekend, Harm Edited November 30, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Hello Harm, We are all in "hot stand-by" just waiting for your next postings that will show the glue up on your body. We all have lives also, so we do understand that company is a big part of we being human. Enjoy your weekend, we will catch up next Monday. 🙂 Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Hello Harm, With company gone, (I hope it was good for you and Anna), now you can reside back in the shop working on your Cleveland. 🙂 How has the glue up progressed? I was thinking, do you have all the pieces of your ignition system? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, With company gone, (I hope it was good for you and Anna), now you can reside back in the shop working on your Cleveland. 🙂 How has the glue up progressed? I was thinking, do you have all the pieces of your ignition system? Al Hello Al, Company left early in the afternoon, the weather forecast warned for thick fog, and right they where. So yesterday evening, Anna and I started gluing the body parts. Work progressed well, it took us just 3 hours to complete the task. One has to work fast, as the glue sets after 15 minutes. Regarding the ignition system, I really don't know. I have the timer, but not much else. I have no coil and no switch, I guess there must also be a battery box for 6 standard cells? Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Hello Harm, I have had to build my ignition system using the best practices and technology available for our vintage. I will post a picture of the coil box that I built that will accommodate a typical and easy to find coil, (in my case two coils). I have built up a timer that will fire both my cylinders and have a suitable early coil switch to mount on my new coil box. Just wondering about your thoughts. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Yesterday evening Anna and I started gluing the body parts. Work progressed well, it took us just 3 hours to complete the task. One has to work fast, as the glue sets after 15 minutes. This afternoon I sanded the whole body and where applicable routed the edges. Also made the under frame for the front seat. What I nearly forgot: putting small wooden pieces (blocks) under the body frame beams. They will hold the body 5/16" above the steel chassis rails. So this is done to prevent moisture becoming trapped between the steel chassis rails and the body frame beams. Below some pictures. Regards, Harm 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, I have had to build my ignition system using the best practices and technology available for our vintage. I will post a picture of the coil box that I built that will accommodate a typical and easy to find coil, (in my case two coils). I have built up a timer that will fire both my cylinders and have a suitable early coil switch to mount on my new coil box. Just wondering about your thoughts. Al Hello Al, That is a very nice made box! I guess the ignition box for the two cylinder Cleveland, is mounted on the dash board. For the one cylinder car, it is mounted near the engine, with the switch mounted on a small strip of sheet metal under the passenger side of the front seat, rather primitive and not very convenient. I think that the 2 cylinder car is a much more sophisticated (modern) car than the one cylinder car. This is something I must sort out. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Harm, You body is very much taking shape and it certainly does look nice and now glued! What is next, the tonneau, rear deck riser or front "slope nose"? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, alsfarms said: Harm, You body is very much taking shape and it certainly does look nice and now glued! What is next, the tonneau, rear deck riser or front "slope nose"? Al Hello Al, Next: front seat with its curved backside, dash board and the "slope nosed" hood. The tonneau with the rear door will be last, I must sort out several design issues.... The tonneau is not identical to Cadillac or Ford. (To be honest, the Cleveland body looks like a Cadillac or Ford body, but differs on most dimensions). From the front seat on, the Cleveland body is totally different. So the tonneau presents me with some headache. Regards, Harm Edited December 3, 2019 by Sloth Typo corrected (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Hello Harm, Now we know what music you are going to be dancing to and will watch with interest! Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) Hello Harm, I am curious, were you able to source the inside quarter round in hardwood or in some type of pine? I can't tell from your pictures but the fit and application if very fitting. How is that for a play on words! Al Edited December 3, 2019 by alsfarms addition for clarity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 hour ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, I am curious, were you able to source the inside quarter round in hardwood or in some type of pine? I can't tell from your pictures but the fit and application if very fitting. How is that for a play on words! Al Hello Al, Nicely written! The quarter round is some kind of pine, I would rather preferred ash. But this is what I only could buy in a small quantity. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 Started this morning with the construction of the slope nosed hood. Made the sides 1"ash boards. After a lot of try and error, got the slopes right (I think but not sure, as I have no comparable model to hand). See pictures. Tomorrow, I will saw the horizontal part, and glue the whole thing together. The pictures show some dimensional distortion. During the writing of this report, I walked two times to the shop to convince myself that the slopes are there, and the sides are similar and have the same tilt 🙄. Won't write down the comment made by my wife, . The small slats in the front are temporarily distance keepers. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 VERY NICE work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) @keizer31, thank you for your kind comment. Yesterday and today, I spend on making the middle part of the hood. I used a flexible kind of plywood, this type of plywood is used mostly by furniture makers. The plywood proved less flexible than I had hoped for. But on the end I got it done. Whats left is rounding the corners, sawing the hatch for the petrol tank and water tank and fit the quarter round moldings on the lower/bottom sides. Furthermore, I made the dash board. Slowly, it begins to look like an automobile. Regards, Harm Hood, left side view Hood, right side view Edited December 6, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 14 hours ago, Sloth said: Slowly, it begins to look like an automobile. I think it looks wonderful. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 I think your body building project is actually moving along at a very fast speed....not slow at all! You are being an inspiration for sure. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 On 12/7/2019 at 6:58 PM, alsfarms said: I think your body building project is actually moving along at a very fast speed....not slow at all! You are being an inspiration for sure. Al Thanks Al, I hope to have the front seat ready before Christmas (this year...😄). Regards, Harm 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Hello Harm, What is your chosen method for installing the top louvers in the slop nose hood? Do you plan to build your seat with a flat back or rounded corners? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, What is your chosen method for installing the top louvers in the slop nose hood? Do you plan to build your seat with a flat back or rounded corners? Al Hallo Al, I must figure out how it originally was made. But as now, I think, it is a hatch with a 1/2" 90 degree edge, with on the top (near the dash) a hinge. For fabricating the louvers I have to make a simple die. But this item is for the time being on the back burner. Below I include a link to a very interesting project, the fabrication of louvers is shown in detail. The writer describes how to fabricate a simple die for fabricating louvers. To me, it seems a very elegant solution. And another benefit, I can easily adjust the dimensions fitting the Cleveland louvers. And above all, as I am a Dutchman: its cheap 😉 . One note, I only need 5 or 6 louvers, so the die can be very simple and if it breaks I make a new one. Further more the nearest shop who can make louvers is about 160 miles away, and they are not interested in it. So I decided to make the louvers myself. Link: http://www.madaboutmorgans.com/handmade_louvers-html/ I plan to build the seat with rounded corners, I spend the afternoon with drawing and visualizing the seat, how to to fabricate the corners. The back of the seat is also slightly rounded, making it a bit more complicated. Tomorrow I plan to make a mock up (building up one edge, made of slices of plywood), just to see if I have the dimensions right. Pictures will be taken... Regards, Harm Edited December 9, 2019 by Sloth Corrected syntax error (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Sloth, what is the wheelbase on the Cleveland Roadster? Very nice work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 15 hours ago, Sloth said: I decided to make the louvers myself. That is a very interesting site Harm. Thank you for the link. On the site I found a page on 'Rolled Wire Sheet Metal Hems' which will help me with the repair of the wings (fenders) on my restoration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Hello Harm, I agree with the comment by Mike above! What a nice link to help we home builders complete a professional type jog with home-brew skills and tools. I have an Alvis TA-21 project that is going to be my interpretation of an European styled special and on the right car! Many of the skills discussed on that Morgan link will be very beneficial. Thanks for sharing the link! Now what about the Cleveland? You only have a couple of weeks before Christmas. I would like to see you and the Missus sitting in the completed/nearly completed seat.... 🙂 Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 14 hours ago, John S. said: Sloth, what is the wheelbase on the Cleveland Roadster? Very nice work. Hello John, thank you for the compliment. The wheelbase is 72". Regards, Harm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 Hello Mike and Al, Gentlemen, you are welcome. I bookmarked this website several years ago, I found many very useful tricks and tips. The "Rolled Wire Sheet Metal Hems" trick I used myself several years ago, when fabricating new wings/fenders/mudguards 😉 for the 1909 Buick. Alan, the Alvis TA-21 is (in my humble opinion) a desirable car, some of them have very nice bodies. Well the Cleveland, a good progress today, but have some problems with the camera, I hope to sort it out asap. Would be very satisfying sitting in the new seat, I really wonder how many years ago the last person sat down in this Cleveland (although I realize very well, that my Cleveland body is newly build). Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 It was a very productive day. Last night I got an idea how to fabricate the front seat. The seat will consist of two left/right main pillars, with notches for the side panels and a notch for the rear panel. The pillars provided me with some fabrication challenges, the rear panel is curved, and the side panels are on an angle. For the pillars, I used mahogany I had in stock, the ash I have is just to small. I like milling/routing mahogany, its reasonably dense and not too bad for the tooling. Sectional view of right side main pillar Curved back side of the main pillar. A lot of milling and sanding was needed to get the notches right. Quarter rear view of main pillar and side panel Side view of right side side panel and main pillar Main pillar angle Gentlemen, the angle of the main pillar in last picture presents me with a problem. I have no idea if the angle is OK, or must it a bit more leaning outward? What do you think about it? Things to do tomorrow, rounding the main pillars, I searched for a router bit with the right (large 1 1/2" radius. Found some at €150-; mmm where did I leave my spoke sheaves... Further, make a top board, an underside beam and 3 small trusses between the top board and the under beam. Alan, I told Anna what you wrote in an earlier post, she liked the idea of the sitting very much.... I am in a hurry now 😁 Regards, Harm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I think that (comfortable) seat backs recline at about a 20 degree angle, though that may be more than your car originally had. Maybe 10-15 degrees is enough. The seat bottom should slope downward to the back at about 5 degrees to help people stay in the seats, but maybe you can build that into the cushions. Try measuring the seats on a modern car that you find comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 13 hours ago, Sloth said: Gentlemen, the angle of the main pillar in last picture presents me with a problem. I have no idea if the angle is OK, or must it a bit more leaning outward? What do you think about it? Would it help you if I sent you or posted some photos and measurement of the body and seating area my 1903 Crestmobile? I was very pleased to see all the 'stuff' on the bench in the background of the photo. I try to work tidily, but, I always seem to end up with a mess of tools and stuff on any flat surface. From your previous photos I was amazed to see everything so clean and organised, now I know your human! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 11 hours ago, Gary_Ash said: I think that (comfortable) seat backs recline at about a 20 degree angle, though that may be more than your car originally had. Maybe 10-15 degrees is enough. The seat bottom should slope downward to the back at about 5 degrees to help people stay in the seats, but maybe you can build that into the cushions. Try measuring the seats on a modern car that you find comfortable. Hello Gary, thank you for your advice, will take a look at my Buick of 1910 seats. Regards, Harm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Mike Macartney said: Would it help you if I sent you or posted some photos and measurement of the body and seating area my 1903 Crestmobile? I was very pleased to see all the 'stuff' on the bench in the background of the photo. I try to work tidily, but, I always seem to end up with a mess of tools and stuff on any flat surface. From your previous photos I was amazed to see everything so clean and organised, now I know your human! Hello Mike, It would be a great help, if you post some measurement of the body and seating area, it seems that the body of the Crestmobile looks nearly identical to the Cleveland. Thank you in advance! Yes Mike, I am human with all the quirks belonging to it. Horizontal flat surfaces magically collecting stuff, can hardly do anything to prevent this 😉. But nothing gets lost, I think... (Takes sometimes more than a few minutes to find something back....🙄) Regards, Harm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, Sloth said: It would be a great help, if you post some measurement of the body and seating area I will post the measurement this afternoon. In the meantime here are some photos that may, or may not, help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 It has been a little tricky this morning to take the photos as I was by myself. Tape in one hand and camera in the other. The blue 'thing' in the photo is the trunk lid for the Humberette. It is a convenient place to put it to hopefully stop it getting damaged until I get around to fitting it. I could not find another clear space to put it! This is the measurement between the outsides of the body where the seat is. To give you an idea of the position of the measurement, the vertical bright part is the pillar for the tiller steering. 85mm (33-1/2") is the width of the seat base. Measurement from the seat back to the front of the seat base. Across the seat base. This photo also shows how the seat back widens out from the base. This is a close up of the tape measurement of the photo above this one. Seat back height. Showing the seat back height measurement. Height of the seat base above the floor. I hope the above is of help. If you need any more measurements, explanations or photos please do not hesitate to ask. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) @Mike Macartney: Hello Mike, thank you very much for making this effort. I am very pleased to tell you, the dimensions of the Cleveland seat are within 1/2" identical of those of the Crestmobile. I am reassured and a very happy Harm now, so I pored myself a hearty drink, and toasted on your health. This is just what I needed to continue (the dimensions, not the drink...😊). This forum proved invaluable for me, as I have no frame of reference or help for restoring a 1903 American car of which only two exist. Regards, Harm Edited December 11, 2019 by Sloth Corrected syntax error (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Harm, I am only to pleased too help. It is nice to help somebody else, after all the help members of this forum have given me, since I joined a year and a half ago. Best regards Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Mike,Those are delightful pictures of the Crestmobile! Not only are you helping Harm but you are also helping me! The rear end your Crestmobile has is VERY familiar. Harm, have you worked out the back seat rest slope to a "degree" that you are happy with? (Wow another play with words two different meanings for degree). Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, alsfarms said: Mike,Those are delightful pictures of the Crestmobile! Not only are you helping Harm but you are also helping me! The rear end your Crestmobile has is VERY familiar. Harm, have you worked out the back seat rest slope to a "degree" that you are happy with? (Wow another play with words two different meanings for degree). Al Hello Al, Yes, I worked out the degree of slope, the pictures of the Crestmobile were of a great help. Will let you know, as soon as I assemble the front seat, probably Monday. Today I assembled and glued together the side panels. Tomorrow some shopping is foreseen by Anna 😒, no Cleveland wood work. So my degree of happiness is a bit declining 😁. Regards, Harm Edited December 13, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Hello Harm, How was your shopping "spree"? I hope as rewarding for you as it likely was for Anna..... 🙂 Al Edited December 16, 2019 by alsfarms clarity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, How was your shopping "spree"? I hope as rewarding for you as it likely was for Anna..... 🙂 Al Hello Al, Well, it was a nice weekend with limited shopping. We went to Rotterdam, it is the largest harbor of Europe. Nice shopping, but very bad weather, a lot of wind and rain. So instead to continue shopping the whole Saturday, we went in the afternoon for a harbor tour by boat. We were impressed, a very busy harbor. Stayed the night over, and had a very good "surprise diner" at one of the restaurants (good wine too 😋). Regards, Harm Edited December 16, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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