carlsoncg

Wanted: Wind Wings for 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring

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Hugh and Carl,

A true 1925 Model 25S will have a 114 3/8" wheelbase.  This information comes from the Buick Motor Division Car and Engine Data compiled on June 16, 1943

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Terry,    Thank you for the clarification on the wheelbase and also for keeping track of the records.  It’s interesting that they would call it a sports model by changing the color and adding a few minor accessories.  I do think a color change in 1925 was no small task.  Really interesting that they used the serial numbers from the model 20 “closed cars” and not the model 25 “open cars” for a special production run of model 25 touring cars.  

Hugh

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

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Thank you Hugh. This does sound like the salient point. I will ask Reliable to look for the chassis number. When I get that we have the information to say yes or no it is a 25S correct? 

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Carl, 

       I think the designation of an S model and it's claim to be an S model will fall with the chassis number.  Hugh

     

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All, Thank you. I did get a call from RM Auctions on Thursday while out of the country and just returned the call today.  Looking at Auction Site photos again it is clear that the number listed as the VIN by RM Auctions and the Certificate of Validity by Merrick Museum (See above) is the engine number : 1,319,522 as one of the photos shows the tag on the engine where it should be.  I called my Reliable Carrier POCs and asked if someone could look for the Chassis number.  However just got voice mail so likely car is on the way to me for delivery Today through Thursday.  I think you would agree that even with all that is wrong with the car (even the engine not correct for the 25S) that is it all comes down to the Chassis number and if it falls within the range of 1,273,000 and 1,273,605 as everything else is "Buyer Beware" and I am stuck with it.  As it stands the car is not very usable as it stands not being started/driven for who knows how many years as it sat in the "Museum."  At least the gas  tank and radiator where drained. Assuming I am unsuccessful in voiding the sale I will reach out for advice on how to re-commission the car.

 

Any opinions/advice welcome re my forthcoming discussion/argument w Sothebys welcome.

 

You guys have been VERY helpful and I greatly appreciate it.

 

Cheers, Carl

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Carl:

Just for reference.

 My chassis # for my 1925-25 is 1,283015

 Engine#                                          1,312,686

Hugh's car 1925-25

   Chassis #                                     1,286,534

   Engine   #                                     1,350,856

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Hugh and Larry,  I just got the Chassis number off the car from Reliable where it is stored in NJ pending delivery.

 

It was as you said re location and easy to find and read: # 1,284,720.  This number falls outside chassis numbers given for 1925 Standard 25 S Sport Touring of 1,273,000 to 1,273,605 w additional number of 1, 283,751.  Even if you add in 46 more numbers to get to 651 25 S models (i.e., 1,273,651) it still falls outside that range.

Do we know what Chassis #1,284,720 was born as?

 

Thanks, Carl

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Based on the Chassis numbers of Larry and Hugh's cars shown above is it likely this car is a 1925 25 and not a 25S as advertised and certified?

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Carl, 

       This is a note that Terry Wiegand sent me regarding the block of frame and engine numbers that were assigned by Buick for the model 25-25 cars.  Your car engine and frame number is between Larry's car and my car.   I would agree that the car is not an S model.      

 

1925-25 Chassis chassis block Engine Engine block
Larry 1,283,015 2 1,312,686 3
Carl 1,284,720 4 1,319,522 3
Hugh  1,286,534 4   1,350,856 5

 

Hugh

     285695962_1925BuickProductionBlocks1.thumb.jpg.3ca0aab99801c4b843081138fe355c12.jpg

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Hugh, Larry, and Terry, et. al., Thanks.  Looks like Lot 253 is really a 1925 Model 25 and NOT a 1925 Model 25S.  I have passed this info to RM Sothebys and now we will see if they really stand behind their  “Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale Due to Material Misrepresentation” as clearly this Lot was misrepresented.

 

Cheers, Carl

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Carl, 

I wish you the best on your dealing with RM.  This is why the 1925-25S is so elusive.  It does not even show in the sales catalog for 1925.  The 1925  catalog link is attached.  We know they were sold but how they were marketed is different than the normal run of cars.  I have not seen pricing either to see what the premium was for a 25-25S.    Hugh

 

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Buick/1925 Buick/1925 Buick Brochure/image24.html

 

 

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

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Carl,

The frame number 1284720 was assigned to a 1925 Model 25.  That number was within lot numbers 1283752 - 1286999.  This was the 4th lot of 8 designated lot numbers.  There were 3 individual frame numbers that were assigned to the Model 25 production run also.  Looking back, it seems that Buick really made model identification by frame number way more difficult than it needed to be or could have been.  I hope that this information will be helpful to you in the way that you need.  I think everyone will agree that these Sport Models that Buick produced were 'over the top' back in the day and this is why they are very much sought after today.  I am happy to have been of some assistance to you with the factory records that I have.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Hugh, Larry and Terry, RM Auctions agreed with our analysis of the chassis and engine numbers and that Lot 253 was not a 25S model as it was proported to be. They have agreed to void the sale. I can't thank you enough for your help!

 

Again I am so glad I joined BCA and made that post.

 

Sincerely,

Carl

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Carl, 

    I am really glad that RM auctions honored their misrepresentation clause.  And the 25S is still a holy grail car yet to be discovered.  Glad that we could help.     Hugh 

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Ciao a tutti. Per qualsiasi domanda, dopo questa interessante discussione, ho alcune risposte.

Sono d'accordo con la maggior parte di voi e ho trascorso la mia serata felice con te. Grazie.

Ho uno Standard 25-25 X (esportazione) completo e originale in tutte le parti tranne gli interni (e forse i raggi non sono colorati ma mi piace l'aspetto del legno). L'anno prossimo realizzerò l'originale con molte foto. Anche i cerchi sono 22 ".

Vivo in Italia.

 

IMG_6852.jpg

IMG_4474.jpg

Edited by seviane
added picture (see edit history)

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Google Translate is a great tool.    This is the note from Seviane.

 

Hello to all. For any questions, after this interesting discussion, I have some answers.
I agree with most of you and spent my happy evening with you. Thanks.

I have a complete and original Standard 25-25 X (export) in all parts except the interiors (and maybe the spokes are not colored but I like the look of wood). Next year I will make the original with many photos. The rims are also 22 ".

I live in Italy.

 

Sevaine,   Thank you for the added photos.   You have a very nice car there.  There are very few 1925-25 cars.  Nice to see a right hand drive model also.    Hugh

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Thanks Seviane and Hugh for translating.

 I have seen several 25-25X cars over the years. All in various colors. (The Buick gray with the red stripe on the belt molding does look great.) The plus is that it does have double spares and wind wings but no visor. I have had a dialog with some of those owners. But they are not a 25-25S.

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On 31/10/2019 at 01:25, Hubert_25-25 said:

Google Translate è un ottimo strumento. Questa è la nota di Seviane.

 

Ciao a tutti. Per qualsiasi domanda, dopo questa interessante discussione, ho alcune risposte.
Sono d'accordo con la maggior parte di voi e ho trascorso la mia serata felice con voi. Grazie.

Ho uno Standard 25-25 X completo e originale (esportazione) in tutte le parti tranne gli interni (e forse i raggi non sono colorati ma mi piace l'aspetto del legno). L'anno prossimo realizzerò l'originale con molte foto. I cerchi sono anche 22 ".

Vivo in Italia.

 

Sevaine, grazie per le foto aggiunte. Hai una macchina molto bella lì. Ci sono pochissime auto del 1925-25. Bello vedere anche un modello con guida a destra. Hugh

Sorry I wrote in English (with a little fatigue) but google traslate for me in Italian (Puff puff)

 

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Sevaine, 

       Please feel free to just communicate in the language that is easiest for you.  I wish more of our members just communicated in any language.  I can take care of the translation.  I would much rather have a poor dialog than none at all.  We have much information to share regarding our rare Buicks.  Hugh

 

Seviane,
 Sentiti libero di comunicare nella lingua più semplice per te. Vorrei che altri dei nostri membri avessero appena comunicato in qualsiasi lingua. Posso occuparmi della traduzione. Preferirei piuttosto avere un dialogo scadente che nessuno. Abbiamo molte informazioni da condividere sui nostri rari Buick.
I migliori saluti,
Hugh Leidlein
 

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