Wanted: Wind Wings for 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring

[carlsoncg]

Missing Drivers side wing and  bottom bracket is broken.

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

    Can you post some pictures please.  Also photos of your 25S.  Always trying to learn more and we have very few photos of 25S models. 

 

Thank you,   Hugh

[dibarlaw]

As Hugh has indicated we have little documentation on these cars. If this is the one sold at the Hershey R/M auction last Thursday, I am very skeptical it is what it was to be. I took many photos and I have my doubts as this may have been done as a tribute car.

This photo shows the missing drivers side wind wing.

 I believe the correct windshield posts should have an enlarged boss for mounting the pivot bracket threads. From what I recall on this car these posts were just drilled and tapped.

1925 Model 55     1923 model 55

  1927 Model 24

[carlsoncg]

DiBarlaw,  and Hugj, Wow what a bomb shell, thank you. I am a total neophyte when it comes to Buicks, if this is not a real 1925 Buick 25S Touring then I need to contact RM Auctions ASAP as the catelogue and the Merrick Museum Certificate of authenticity say otherwise and I am not knowledgeable enough to know the difference. I could really use your help help. Have you looked at the RM auction listing online? If this is not the car it was purported to be I do not want it. I do have 14 days to prove that. Can you or the BCA help me showbit is a tribute car and not authentic?

please call email me direct:

carl.carlson@ixblue-us.com

617-877-9660. Unfortunately I a on business travel to France next week but stoll can receive calks and emails. Again, Thank You for reaching  out!

Carl Carlson

[carlsoncg]

Sorry for all thevtupos above.

Carl

[carlsoncg]

Wow, typos.

Carl

[Oregon Desert model 45]

Those brackets appear to be Ford Model A windwing brackets. Reproductions are readily available online. 

Larry is correct - the windshield stanchions should have a boss at windwing mount locations. 

Kevin

[carlsoncg]

All,  This is the car I bought Thursday night. I have informed RM Auctions of my concerns that this is not an authentic car as represented per their "Twenty Day Window for Rescission  of Sale due to Material Misrepresentation" clause.  I would never have bought the car had I know this was a "tribute" car as both RM Auctions and the Merrick Museum "Verification Certificate" indicate it is an authentic 1925 Buick Model 25S  Standard Six Sport Touring car.

 

Please let me know what you saw that indicates this car is not authentic and is a "tribute" car. Any Pictures, descriptions, etc. that I can use to  prove this to RM Auctions GREATLY appreciated.

 

Thank you!  So glad I joined the BCA.

 

Cheers,

Carl

Carl Carlson

carl.carlson@ixblue-us.com

617-877-9660

 

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

    To begin with, lets start with the ID tag on the firewall.  Larry saw this at the auction.  It is stamped with 25, and then the S is engraved from what I understand.  It would not have come that way.  The S would have been stamped as well.  I am curious as to what they describe that would make it a 25S.  Only 651 S models made.  I will look and see if I have any other information.  Here is a little info on the 25S, and even that I am not sure if the frame size change is a correct statement.  Doubtful you have a 120" wheelbase.   In this photo, it does show a Master drive train since it has 6 rear wheel nuts and not the 12 that a Standard would have.   Hugh    

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl,

   I don't know what information they gave regarding proof that the car was an S model.  In the photo above, there is a lot of space between the rear of the tub, and the spare tire.  The above photo looks like a Master model 55 Sports Touring to me.  Attached is a 1923 Buick Model 55 photo (red car) and a 1924 model 55 (green).  The Master sport touring were 128" wheelbase.  The model 45 Master touring was on 120" wheelbase.  The rear fender does seem to be further back on the sport models.  You would need the longer wheelbase for the trunk rack.

 

 I also have this list of models.  It shows the 1925 Buick 25S having the regular 114 3/8" wheelbase.  If the 25S really used the 120" wheelbase, it would be interesting to know how the drive train was set up.  You have no dual spare or trunk rack.  We do struggle with what a 25S model really is.  We can tell you that all regular touring in 1925 are Brewster Green or Black.  The S is gray, but color is easy to change.  If you looked behind the data plate on the fire wall, or the steering column support, you may find some original paint.  

So 501 of the Sport Roadster as well.  Is the assumption that the sport model definition is the space for the luggage rack between the body and the spare tires?  

   Hugh

    

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[carlsoncg]

Hugh,  Thanks.  The RM Auctions Cataloge, on-line listing and auctioneer plus a Certificate of Validity from Merrick Auto Museum listed Lot 253 as a 1925 Buick 25S Standard Six Sport Touring automobile w VIN 1319522. I attached pictures and the link to the RM Auction listing, but car does not have room for a trunk in the rear between the 2 x spare tires and the body so I do not think it is a Master Model 55.  Unfortunately I was not able to measure wheel base but car is a little less than 15 feet long. The auction (picture showing Auction Lot label on wind-shield), lead dibarlaw to state that this was likely a "Tribute Car" implying it was not properly identified by RM Auctions nor the Merrick Museum Certificate.  On the strength of these observation I have asked RM Auctions to consider my claim that this is not the car advertised. Link to Auction listing follows:

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf19/hershey/lots/r0089-1925-buick-model-25s-standard-six-sport-touring/759671

 

I have attached photos I took on Friday (sorry some are on their side even after I saved them again after rotating 90 in Paint).

 

Please let me know if you think this is not the car advertised as I expect RM Sotheby's to contact me soon for proof...

 

If someone could post this to the whole BCA to see what the consensus is I would greatly appreciate!

 

Thanks again for everyone's help,

Carl Carlson

carl.carlson@ixblue-us.com

617-877-9660

 

[carlsoncg]

Thank Hugh,  Good info re-tag on Firewall and I will use it!  Please see link and pictures I posted above (again sorry for pictures 90 off). I have attached Merrick Museum's "Verification Certificate that came with car and was on the seat.

 

Thanks again for the help...

 

Cheers, Carl

[dibarlaw]

Hugh and Carl

 I have just consulted Terry W as he has Terry Dunham's documentation as far as the Buick's maddening system of "Block" production. As a 1943 Buick Motor Company document indicates that the 1925-25S Frame serial numbers start at 1,273,000 end at 1,273605. An additional # shows up as 1,283,751.

 It also indicates that these cars have engine #s that are in the same block for Model 20. With engine #s 1,264,701- 1,273,000.

 Check your engine # on the left side of the block behind the oil filler tube and the frame # on the outside of the left front frame above the axle. They should have used the frame # to register the car.

 As I have shared with Hugh my other concerns and observations.

 At the display tent I did measure the WB and it was 114" 

 The headlight bezels, lens and reflector are 1926 or 27.

 The radiator shell is 1926 or 27.

The wheels are for 21" rims as the 1925 cars had 22" rims. My 1925-25 also had this done.

 The upholstery was very puffy and the front seat bottom was about 6" longer than it is to be. It was impossible for one gentleman to get his foot in. So, not the correct seat riser or springs.

 Hugh and I have done much research on the top framework and how it is to look and function. I was disappointed to see it has the correct shape, style etc. But would have an issue if you wanted to fold the top.

The gypsy sides are tacked directly to the body covered by HIDEM. These should have snaps close to the very rear surface where there should be a pocket for the "iron stud" this is where the top rest or clamps bolt on to hold all the top structure.

The way it is made now you could fold the top and do a lot of pinching of the fabric and possible tearing.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by dibarlaw
Added content (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Hugh and Carl,

As Larry mentioned above, we talked this over earlier this evening.  The Identification Number for the car on the Verification Certificate appears to be an engine number.  It falls in a lot number beginning with 1308716 and ending with 1323880.  Back in the day some states used engine numbers as title registration numbers.  The problem with that was if the engine was replaced for whatever reason, the identification for the vehicle was corrupt.  The information that I have comes from Buick Motor Division Car and Engine Data dated June 16, 1943.  I hope that this will be of some help.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[Terry Wiegand]

The frame numbers for a true 1925 Model 25S do not include a frame number of 1319522.  This appears to be an engine number.  This car will have a frame number located somewhere on the frame ( I am not sure where that is for a 1925 model) and when you find that number it can be traced back with the records that exist to determine what this automobile was built as.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[carlsoncg]

All, Great info, especially info on radiator and wheel size, etc. I will use this info to invalidate the sale if at all possible. I do not have car yet as delvery scheduled for bext week and I have sent you all documents and photos I have. If RM Auctions and Merrick's Certificate VIN is really an engine number does it give a date that might help make the case?

Again, thanks to everyone! Please send any thing else that helps. No response from RM Sotheby's yet.

 Cheers,

Carl

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

   The 21" wheel swap is what people did when 22" tires were no longer available.  They took wheels and tires from 1926 to 1928 Buick Standard cars and put them on their 1925 cars.  This was not Buick doing that.  This was owners trying to keep their cars on the road.  1922 is the first year for balloon tires, and 22" size were only used on Pierce Arrow and Buick and a few small makers for 1925 only.  That is why the original 22" wheels and  parts are so hard to find.  

My car was registered by the engine number with the Department of Motor Vehicles in Texas.  But official paperwork like yours from a museum should use the chassis number.

The chassis plate is in the left front wheel opening attached on the side of the frame by rivets.  It is near where the steering arm comes out thru the frame.  

We would really like to know what that chassis tag number is.  You could use a piece of paper and do a rubbing of it.

Hugh 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Carl,

Unfortunately the build date, shipping date, and dealer ordering information from Buick Motor Company does not exist.  If we were talking about a Cadillac, then those records do exist, and it is my understanding that these records go back to day one for Cadillac.

I'm sorry that this has not been of much help for you.  As Hugh stated, you need to know what the frame number is for this car.  With that it can be determined what this car started out as.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[dibarlaw]

11 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Hugh and Carl

 I have just consulted Terry W as he has Terry Dunham's documentation as far as the Buick's maddening system of "Block" production. As a 1943 Buick Motor Company document indicates that the 1925-25S Frame serial numbers start at 1,273,000 end at 1,273605. An additional # shows up as 1,283,751.

 It also indicates that these cars have engine #s that are in the same block for Model 20. With engine #s 1,264,701- 1,273,000.

 Check your engine # on the left side of the block behind the oil filler tube and the frame # on the outside of the left front frame above the axle. They should have used the frame # to register the car.

 As I have shared with Hugh my other concerns and observations.

 At the display tent I did measure the WB and it was 114" 

 The headlight bezels, lens and reflector are 1926 or 27.

 The radiator shell is 1926 or 27.

The wheels are for 21" rims as the 1925 cars had 22" rims. My 1925-25 also had this done.

 The upholstery was very puffy and the front seat bottom was about 6" longer than it is to be. It was impossible for one gentleman to get his foot in. So, not the correct seat riser or springs.

 Hugh and I have done much research on the top framework and how it is to look and function. I was disappointed to see it has the correct shape, style etc. But would have an issue if you wanted to fold the top.

The gypsy sides are tacked directly to the body covered by HIDEM. These should have snaps close to the very rear surface where there should be a pocket for the "iron stud" this is where the top rest or clamps bolt on to hold all the top structure.

The way it is made now you could fold the top and do a lot of pinching of the fabric and possible tearing.

 

 

Sorry all:

I though I deleted this photo of the aftermath of a fire. I had originally thought the car shown was a 1925-25S but I am undecided. As it does have balloon tires, light color, a visor, trim rings on the headlight buckets, and remains of the wind wings. The model 55 cars had all nickel headlight and cowl lights.

The other  2 photos that Hugh sent were of a maroon 1923 Model 55 Sport Touring

 The rear trunk hardware photo of the green car is a 1924 Model 55 advertised for sale in the BCA bugle last year. (repaint)

This is what a very nicely restored 1924-55 is to look like.

 1925 Model 55 at the BCA meet in Brookfield WI.2017. 128" WB.

 That is Terry standing at the drivers side windshield

 

[Hubert_25-25]

Larry,   

           Thanks for the year corrections on my photos.   I corrected them above and in my files.    Hugh

[dibarlaw]

Hugh:

 Here is a photo I found of the 1925 Lisbon auto show. The first is of a 1925-55 RH drive with wire wheels. The darker car in the back round does appear to be a Standard (shorter radiator) RH drive (also with wire wheels) Notice the Burbank top with the rear socket turned down like Leif's car. Also a visor that looks to be covered.

Second photo is a crop of another make car with the Buick display in the back round. It shows a good profile of the top of the model 55.

Notice the bright aluminum bead in the Hidem on both of the cars.

 My friend Pete's Original 1927-54 top.

[carlsoncg]

All,  Thanks.  I have submitted the following to RM Auctions.  No response.  Please let me know if I got my facts wrong any where.  I have not added part about the tag having the S stamped-in/added later, but will.  Anything else I should point out?

 

Cheers, Carl

 

From: Carl Carlson
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 10:27 AM
To: 'owalker@rmsothebys.com' <owalker@rmsothebys.com>
Cc: 'legal@rmsothebys.com' <legal@rmsothebys.com>; 'Karen C' <carlsonkt7@gmail.com>
Subject: FW: Authenticity Concern Hershey RM Auctions Lot 253 Bidder 5501

 

Olivia,  I am emailing you as I have heard nothing from RM Sothebys Legal since I submitted bottom email Sunday night. The following is a partial list from Buick Club of America (BCA) members (one of whom surveyed the car at the auction) that indicates that lot 253 is not a 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring and is likely a “Tribute Car.” As such I desire to void the sale under the “Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale Due to Material Misrepresentation.” As a reminder the car is currently at Reliable’ s NJ Warehouse awaiting delayed delivery next week.  If at all possible I would request the car stay in NJ to avoid unnecessary transportation costs. Please advise me of next steps.  Partial list of issues follows:

 

1.       The headlight bezels, lens and reflector are 1926 or 27.

2.       The radiator shell is 1926 or 27.

3.       The wheels are for 21" rims as the 1925 cars had 22" rims.

4.       The upholstery is very puffy and the front seat bottom is about 6" longer than it is supposed to be. It is not the correct seat riser or springs.

5.        While the top framework has the correct shape, style etc. It would have an issue if you wanted to fold the top.

6.       The gypsy sides are tacked directly to the body covered by HIDEM. These should have snaps close to the very rear surface where there should be a pocket for the "iron stud" this is where the top rests or clamps bolt on to hold all the top structure.

7.       The way it is made now you could fold the top and do a lot of pinching of the fabric and possible tearing.

 

Following picture is how it should look:

 

Please let me know you received this email and what the next steps are.

 

Thank you,

 

Carl Carlson

617-877-9660

 

 

From: Carl Carlson
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 1:53 AM
To: legal@rmsothebys.com
Cc: Carl Carlson <carlsoncg26@gmail.com>; carlsonkt7@gmail.com
Subject: Authenticity Concern Hershey RM Auctions Lot 253 Bidder 5501

 

RM Sothebys, On Thursday 10 Oct at RM Auctions 2019 Hershey Auction I bid on and won Lot 253 purported to be a 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring. I have two issues with this purchase:

 

1.       Thursday night 10 Oct 2019 I joined the Buick Club of America (BCA) and posted a request for wind wings as the one on the driver’s side was broken. Today I received a response to my post indicating that if this was the 1925 Buick Model 25S sold at the Hershey 2019 RM Auction that based on the wind shield frame and wind winds that they had serious concerns and that likely this car was a “Tribute Car” and not an authentic 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring. Obviously that is not what the documentation said, and I wanted to raise this issue immediately in accordance with, the “Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale Due to Material Misrepresentation.”

2.       When I was completing my auction paper work in the on-site office Thursday night I was talking about picking up the car  with a trailer when I was asked if I had one of the running vehicles from the Merrick Auto Museum Collection. I was then informed that only a few of the Merrick cars were recommissioned the rest were not running, had their gas tanks drained and radiators drained and batteries disconnected. I stopped by the office Friday morning to ask what else had been done to the car and how long it had been since the car had been run.  I was told that as far as RM knew only gas and radiator were drained and battery disconnected and that RM had no idea when the car had last started and run, but that they had had to push the Merrick cars everywhere. I believe this fact should have been disclosed in the catalogue, on-line or by the auctioneer.  I saw cars were being pushed on and off the stage, but thought that was due to building restrictions.  It was not till Friday’s auction when I realized that some cars were being driven on stage.  I would not have bid had I known that this car was not running and no one had any idea when last it had been.  I thought a museum car meant the highest quality and conditions, at least mechanically.

 

Please acknowledge receipt of this email and advise next steps. The car is being transported by Reliable to their warehouse in NJ Monday-Wednesday for delayed delivery to me 21-24 Oct as I am out of the country in France 14-19 Oct.  However, I can be reached by email and phone.

 

Sincerely,

Carl G. Carlson

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, I think of issue, it comes down to the serial number and the claim that the car is a 25S version. For them to make that claim, the car chassis serial number must fall within those numbers that Terry provided.  Items not done correctly like the top snaps not existent but rather hidem used are likely not misrepresentations but rather incorrect repairs.  I would think the same goes for using close but different wheels.  Hugh 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[carlsoncg]

The only number I have is the VIN provided earlier (above) that BCA thinks is an Engine number (if it is engine number it does not fit in 1925 range listed above) but that is probably not definitive enough as engine could have been changed out.  As the car has not been delivered yet I can get no other numbers.  Sounds like you are saying I have to take delivery of the car, find the chassis number and compare it to  list above? How about  dibarlaw saying At the display tent I did measure the WB and it was 114"  Did not someone say a true 25S would have a 120" wheel Base?

 

Thanks, Carl

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

To answer your question, there are other smaller items that are incorrect - having a downdraft carburetor, amp and oil pressure gauges, rear view mirror, choke plate, floor boards and running boards, shift knob, the rear window, door panels, likely the vacuum operated wipers.  There are some paint scheme items.  There are some items missing completely as well - like the engine side pans, spark plug cover, original carburetor and updraft preheater, rear seat foot rest, and the apron scuff plates.  I have not finished listing all of the  non-authentic items, but it has also taken Larry and I years to figure out what is really correct as there are so few of these cars.  Most of us really don't know these cars and what is correct until long after the purchase.  They did not say it was a concourse car either.

           Regarding the wheelbase, the added chassis length would likely be needed to make a model 25 into a sport touring as the series 55 model sport touring had a trunk between  the rear and the spare.  We are not positive on this detail because we have never seen one.  The model 54 sport roadster did not have a trunk, but it was built on the longer chassis.  Again, not positive if all Sport models were standard bodies on larger chassis, but it is possible that is the distinction as well as the chassis number.  

    Can you get the shipping company to provide you with the chassis number.  Let them know that there are some issues with your purchase.   The point that I am trying to make is that if the car were advertised as a regular 1925-25.  One of 16,000 built.  All of the incorrect items on the car would be as they say, let the buyer beware, and I do not think the auction company would do anything, because the car itself is a 1925-25 and the chassis would not have been misrepresented.  The fact that they advertised and represented the car as a 1925-25S, one of 651 sport touring models is the main issue that I feel you need to be focused on.   

 

Hugh    

Edited October 18, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Hugh and Carl,

A true 1925 Model 25S will have a 114 3/8" wheelbase.  This information comes from the Buick Motor Division Car and Engine Data compiled on June 16, 1943

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[Hubert_25-25]

Terry,    Thank you for the clarification on the wheelbase and also for keeping track of the records.  It’s interesting that they would call it a sports model by changing the color and adding a few minor accessories.  I do think a color change in 1925 was no small task.  Really interesting that they used the serial numbers from the model 20 “closed cars” and not the model 25 “open cars” for a special production run of model 25 touring cars.  

Hugh

Edited October 19, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[carlsoncg]

Thank you Hugh. This does sound like the salient point. I will ask Reliable to look for the chassis number. When I get that we have the information to say yes or no it is a 25S correct? 

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

       I think the designation of an S model and it's claim to be an S model will fall with the chassis number.  Hugh

     

[carlsoncg]

All, Thank you. I did get a call from RM Auctions on Thursday while out of the country and just returned the call today.  Looking at Auction Site photos again it is clear that the number listed as the VIN by RM Auctions and the Certificate of Validity by Merrick Museum (See above) is the engine number : 1,319,522 as one of the photos shows the tag on the engine where it should be.  I called my Reliable Carrier POCs and asked if someone could look for the Chassis number.  However just got voice mail so likely car is on the way to me for delivery Today through Thursday.  I think you would agree that even with all that is wrong with the car (even the engine not correct for the 25S) that is it all comes down to the Chassis number and if it falls within the range of 1,273,000 and 1,273,605 as everything else is "Buyer Beware" and I am stuck with it.  As it stands the car is not very usable as it stands not being started/driven for who knows how many years as it sat in the "Museum."  At least the gas  tank and radiator where drained. Assuming I am unsuccessful in voiding the sale I will reach out for advice on how to re-commission the car.

 

Any opinions/advice welcome re my forthcoming discussion/argument w Sothebys welcome.

 

You guys have been VERY helpful and I greatly appreciate it.

 

Cheers, Carl

[dibarlaw]

Carl:

Just for reference.

 My chassis # for my 1925-25 is 1,283015

 Engine#                                          1,312,686

Hugh's car 1925-25

   Chassis #                                     1,286,534

   Engine   #                                     1,350,856

[carlsoncg]

Hugh and Larry,  I just got the Chassis number off the car from Reliable where it is stored in NJ pending delivery.

 

It was as you said re location and easy to find and read: # 1,284,720.  This number falls outside chassis numbers given for 1925 Standard 25 S Sport Touring of 1,273,000 to 1,273,605 w additional number of 1, 283,751.  Even if you add in 46 more numbers to get to 651 25 S models (i.e., 1,273,651) it still falls outside that range.

Do we know what Chassis #1,284,720 was born as?

 

Thanks, Carl

[carlsoncg]

Based on the Chassis numbers of Larry and Hugh's cars shown above is it likely this car is a 1925 25 and not a 25S as advertised and certified?

[carlsoncg]

All, Photo of Lot 253's Chassis Plate: 

 

 

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

       This is a note that Terry Wiegand sent me regarding the block of frame and engine numbers that were assigned by Buick for the model 25-25 cars.  Your car engine and frame number is between Larry's car and my car.   I would agree that the car is not an S model.      

 

1925-25	Chassis	chassis block	Engine	Engine block
Larry	1,283,015	2	1,312,686	3
Carl	1,284,720	4	1,319,522	3
Hugh	1,286,534	4	1,350,856	5

 

Hugh

     

[carlsoncg]

Hugh, Larry, and Terry, et. al., Thanks.  Looks like Lot 253 is really a 1925 Model 25 and NOT a 1925 Model 25S.  I have passed this info to RM Sothebys and now we will see if they really stand behind their  “Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale Due to Material Misrepresentation” as clearly this Lot was misrepresented.

 

Cheers, Carl

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

I wish you the best on your dealing with RM.  This is why the 1925-25S is so elusive.  It does not even show in the sales catalog for 1925.  The 1925  catalog link is attached.  We know they were sold but how they were marketed is different than the normal run of cars.  I have not seen pricing either to see what the premium was for a 25-25S.    Hugh

 

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Buick/1925 Buick/1925 Buick Brochure/image24.html

 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Carl,

The frame number 1284720 was assigned to a 1925 Model 25.  That number was within lot numbers 1283752 - 1286999.  This was the 4th lot of 8 designated lot numbers.  There were 3 individual frame numbers that were assigned to the Model 25 production run also.  Looking back, it seems that Buick really made model identification by frame number way more difficult than it needed to be or could have been.  I hope that this information will be helpful to you in the way that you need.  I think everyone will agree that these Sport Models that Buick produced were 'over the top' back in the day and this is why they are very much sought after today.  I am happy to have been of some assistance to you with the factory records that I have.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[carlsoncg]

Hugh, Larry and Terry, RM Auctions agreed with our analysis of the chassis and engine numbers and that Lot 253 was not a 25S model as it was proported to be. They have agreed to void the sale. I can't thank you enough for your help!

 

Again I am so glad I joined BCA and made that post.

 

Sincerely,

Carl

[Hubert_25-25]

Carl, 

    I am really glad that RM auctions honored their misrepresentation clause.  And the 25S is still a holy grail car yet to be discovered.  Glad that we could help.     Hugh