8E45E Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 12 hours ago, kfle said: Unfortunately all build sheets were destroyed. That is too bad, actually. The Build Sheet confirms your car's "DNA". Fortunately, most of the Production Orders for Studebaker have survived: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/57197-more-production-order-fun-post-yours-here?55844-more-production-order-fun-(post-yours-here-)=&highlight=betsy Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Kevin, Thanks for the picture of Stanley's Cole. It still looks awesome, like a brass car should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 After re-reading an article on John North Willys in the May, 2019 publication of 'The Automobile', it appears Springfield Body Co. also supplied bodies to Willys Overland, where they also offered that same 'hardtop touring' body style in 1917. I wonder if any Overlands in this interesting body style also still exist. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 8:14 PM, kfle said: Steve, The real killer for Cole was Northway. Northway made engines for both Cole and Cadillac going back to 1910, though typically the engines were completely different. For example Cadillac released their V8 in October of 1914 and it was a 60 degree solid head design with 270 or so cubic inches. Cole released their V8 in January of 1915 and it was the first 90 degree flathead V8's with detachable cylinder heads and was a larger 346 cubic inches. Both engines were made by Northway, though Cole's Chief Engineer spent 6 months at Northway in Detroit during 1914 working on Cole's specific design. Cadillac ended up adopting Coles V8 design in 17/18 due to it running much better and Cole standardized on the v8 for all engines in 1916 going forward. Northway stopped letting Cole change engine designs in 1922/23 due to competitive issues and Durant. On the topic of an updated history, the head of the Gilmore Car Museum research library and myself were just talking a week ago about authoring a book. He has also been talking to the Society of Automotive Historians about publishing it. We have an interesting angle and just may do it. The Gilmore library had over 70,000 Cole documents and information donated to them a year ago by an avid collector and historian who created the original registry and ran a Cole club for three decades. A great deal of history sites and books have wrong info on Cole. For example if you go to the Cole Motor Car Company page on Wikipedia, it states that JJ Cole tried to build a car with his son in 1903 as a first attempt and that never happened! The thing is that his son was 4 years old in 1903 🙂 When I have some time i will update Wikipedia and put some cited information on the site. Time to do the work is the limiting factor now, but we will see what happens. Here is a great Cole family photo of JJ Cole pulling his only son, JJ Cole Jr. on a sled in a 1910 Cole 30 Flyer. Kevin Kevin Thanks for the deeper context on the relationship between Northway, Cole and Cadillac. I recall reading that Northway was engine builder for both. One assumes as Cadillac volume grew, patience with special specifications for the low-volume Cole engine would diminish. If rumors that Durant was pursuing Cole got back to GM, who had had enough of his shenanigans, it was just one more reason to end the business relationship. I hope you will seriously consider writing a Cole history, to correct so much of the incorrect that's available. If not a book, perhaps an on-line site that you can add to and enlarge when further insights and solid information come to light. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 4 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: Kevin Thanks for the deeper context on the relationship between Northway, Cole and Cadillac. I recall reading that Northway was engine builder for both. One assumes as Cadillac volume grew, patience with special specifications for the low-volume Cole engine would diminish. If rumors that Durant was pursuing Cole got back to GM, who had had enough of his shenanigans, it was just one more reason to end the business relationship. I hope you will seriously consider writing a Cole history, to correct so much of the incorrect that's available. If not a book, perhaps an on-line site that you can add to and enlarge when further insights and solid information come to light. Steve Steve, I will continue to document the history. Currently, the best place to get information is at the registry website www.colemotorcarregistry.com. I update that, have a blog with posts, and also we publish a periodic electronic newsletter. I post those to the site as well. I also make some videos here and there on youtube. Here is another Cole car walkthrough of a 1911 Cole Roadster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Va-67Skylark Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Photo of another Cole at the Gilmore Collection my wife and I took 2-weeks ago on our visit. What an amazing collection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Saw this Cole at the Gilmore a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 On 10/7/2019 at 12:18 AM, kfle said: Craig, Thanks and the Tourscoupe is a nice car. I have not had a chance to get out there to see it myself yet, but will someday. There is another car of that model that exists that is down in Australia now, but I have not been able to track down the current owner. Kevin Kevin, Is the one down in Australia the one I took the photo of in June 2014? If it is, I can point you in the direction of the guy who was used to get it transported to Australia. He would know who the owner was then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 10 hours ago, Ozstatman said: Kevin, Is the one down in Australia the one I took the photo of in June 2014? If it is, I can point you in the direction of the guy who was used to get it transported to Australia. He would know who the owner was then. Yes that is the one. Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 11 hours ago, Va-67Skylark said: Photo of another Cole at the Gilmore Collection my wife and I took 2-weeks ago on our visit. What an amazing collection! I am glad you enjoyed it. That 1913 Cole is mine as well and is my favorite of our Coles. It looks even better in the sunlight! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 10 hours ago, Ozstatman said: Saw this Cole at the Gilmore a year ago. Yes that is my sons. This summer there was an exhibit of seven Coles at the Gilmore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 5 hours ago, kfle said: Yes that is the one. Any help would be appreciated. Kevin, Will send you a PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 This period photo appeared on another website as a example of touring in the 1920's. It appears to be s Cole Eight touring parked in front of the Hotel Coarse Gold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 2 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: This period photo appeared on another website as a example of touring in the 1920's. It appears to be s Cole Eight touring parked in front of the Hotel Coarse Gold. Thanks for sharing and I have not seen that picture before. That is a 1919-1921 Cole Aero 8 Tourster. 1922 had side mounted spares and then for 1923 they went to big barrel headlights. Here is a nice picture of 1922 Cole Aero 8 with the side mounted tires. Otherwise very similar wo the picture you shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Kevin, Thanks to your bringing Coles to our attention I was able to recognize this one as a Cole. Every little bit of automotive history education helps. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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