Do any survive? 1911 Reeves Octoauto

[Billy Kingsley]

Many years ago I acquired this trading card from the 1953-54 Topps World on Wheels set. I had never heard of the brand, but I've been fascinated by the car ever since. 

 

I do not know if any survive...from what little I have been able to find out, production was extremely limited...as the car was not popular when new, and I infer, although not secure on that, they may have been converted to Sextoautos in 1912 after not selling in 1911. 

 

I consider finding and photographing one of these to be my "holy grail" in automotive photography...but I don't know if any are known. 

 

 

There are a couple of photos of the actual cars on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Reeves)

[John_S_in_Penna]

No, none are known.  As you note, in addition

to the Octoauto, he afterward made a Sextoauto having

6 wheels.  No Sextoauto is known, either.

 

Many years ago, the excellent hard-bound magazine

Automobile Quarterly did an authoritative article on

Mr. Reeves and his eponymous automobiles.  The

article did show a 4-wheel Reeves car and I believe

stated that it was the only Reeves known.

Edited September 29, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

I have heard tale for 40 years that it survives - some people say intact and some say modified back to what would be considered a normal car configuration - everybody who ever mentions is from Ohio, Kentucky, or Indiana - the 3 states connect via the Western side of Cincinnati. 

[padgett]

I remember seeing pictures of the OctoAuto in one of Floyd Clymer's books. Will need to did to find.

[Walt G]

I have heard what John states as well, but only that it was modified back into a regular 4 wheel version for regular use, this theory was also around when I worked for Austin Clark in his library at his house and he got calls then asking to confirm this  - that was in the early 1970s. Other rumors , although less so, concerns the Christie front wheel drive cars and race cars. The only piece of a Christie that I can confirm existed was the hood off the Christie taxi and that was in the loft of the Long Island Auto Museum , I do not know where it is now or if it was saved/bought by someone once the museum closed and the property sold off.

[Steve Moskowitz]

I am pretty confident that these rumors are baseless.  Most of them came from the fact that there were so many project Overland cars around at one time.  There was a huge treasure trove of parts in Indiana that were supposed to contain the remnants of the Octoauto.  Nowhere in this stash was a single part that would have been exclusive to the Octoauto.  I know as I was a buyer along with a close friend who inspected the parts.  Lots of Overland stuff but no eureka moment unfortunately.  

[Layden B]

The Sextoauto was built from a Stutz and is reputed to have been converted back. May have been more than one Sexto.

[1937hd45]

The Clancy Special was recreated, so the Reeves could as well if someone had the desire. Bob 

 

https://bangshift.com/bangshiftapex/racingjunk-find-buy-perfect-recreation-six-wheeled-pat-clancey-special-indy-car/

[John_S_in_Penna]

I found the Automobile Quarterly with the article

on Mr. Reeves and his cars.  It is the Winter 1968 

issue (Volume 6, Number 3), and the article begins

on page 282.  The original poster might be able to

get a copy of this magazine if he contacts the

AACA Library soon--before lots of things get sold 

during Hershey week:  They were selling a lot of

back issues of Automobile Quarterly for very

reasonable prices.

 

According to the article, only one Sextoauto was built:

"...Milton [Reeves] eliminated one pair of front wheels

and created what he called a Sextoauto, which could

be sold for $3200.  Prospective buyers again looked

with admiration--but didn't place any orders.  Milton was

irrevocably out of the automobile business."

 

I infer that only one Octoauto was built, also.

These cars were built from a 1910 Overland--not a Stutz.

 

And the article maintains that only one Reeves exists,

and it's not an Octoauto or Sextoauto:

"Of the many cars he built, however, only one remains

in existence, a Motocycle still in perfect condition, which 

his sons presented to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway

in 1963..."

Edited September 29, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[JamesR]

5 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

[OCTOauto]

 

I have heard tales for 40 years that it survives -

 

I had to laugh. Sounds like an old monster movie.

 

Looks like a cool car.

 

[Layden B]

Absolutely not an Overland!!!

Edited September 30, 2019 by Layden B (see edit history)

[Jim Bollman]

The Octo

 

[Layden B]

Picture by Jim B

That is an Overland, 1912. Not 1910 or 1911.

[keithb7]

I am interested in learning what the inventor’s main objective was for this Octocar. Payload? Just something unique? Light ground pressure to float on mud better? To win the longest car award? Row seating for 9 plus baggage?

Edited September 30, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[JFranklin]

22 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I am interested in learning what the inventor’s main objective was for this Octocar. Payload? Just something unique? Light ground pressure to float on mud better? To win the longest car award? Row seating for 9 plus baggage?

Better ride on the roads of the day.

[Layden B]

Tire longevity?

Many cars carried 2 spares because they had different sizes front to rear but tire wear and damage was a big expensive problem.

[JFranklin]

47 minutes ago, Layden B said:

Tire longevity?

Many cars carried 2 spares because they had different sizes front to rear but tire wear and damage was a big expensive problem.

I would think tire troubles would be a concern on an Octoauto! After some research I agree the inventor was trying to extend tire life. It had a 175" wheelbase!

Edited September 30, 2019 by JFranklin (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

I have no way of knowing for certain myself, but I have suspected for a very long time that William Harrah spent a considerable amount of time and money trying to find one of the two only cars that would have been either the Sextoauto or the Octoauto prototypes. One of the cars used was a '13 Stutz touring car, and Harrah owned and restored a few of those (one of them is owned by a good friend of mine and I have ridden in it!). The other base car was an Overland touring car. Harrah had a few of those, but continued for many years advertising for Overland cars and parts. A rather common brass era car relatively speaking, the only real reason for his continued looking was to find that one car, or even one single frame, that had extra holes in certain places. I would think he was trying to find either one of those historically unique cars to resurrect one of the cars.

Reeves had spent a lot of money, designing and building, only to rebuild and redesign again in an attempt to market his idea. He offered to build such a creation on any automobile chassis of the (potential) buyers choice. However, nobody came forward to buy one. I suspect he was discouraged by this. It has generally been believed that both "base" automobiles were soon after returned to their original configuration and quietly sold simply as slightly used cars.

 

The upside to all this, is that I think a lot of Overlands survive today because of the search for that one Overland. I have personally known several people that owned and toured with brass era Overlands. A couple of them I have spoken with a bit on the subject and I have been told by a few of those Overland owners that Harrah's quest for that one Overland did push others to find, acquire, and restore Overland automobiles that otherwise would likely have not survived.

 

And besides, I got to ride in a Stutz!

 

[Billy Kingsley]

A lot of interesting discussion here. I was afraid that the result would be that none are known. Maybe that one that Harrah's was looking for is still waiting to be discovered...

[Ivan Saxton]

Maybe we need to give him credit for inventing/manufacturing something with more useful. "Reeves drive " is associated with a variable speed V belt pulley drive with variable ratio.  One pulley was either positively set, or spring loaded axially, so the V belt ,which may have been fairly wide, ran closer to the axis or periphery as required,  to alter the ratio.   I remember buying TWO different examples for curiosity at machinery auction in North Melbourne in the 1970s.  They may still be in the shed somewhere, but I never found use for either.  I was the only bidder at the auction, so everyone else there saw no usefulness for them.

[Locomobile]

Here is a picture of one I have in my "archive"

 

Never seen a survivor.

 

-Ron

 

[keiser31]

The 1912 Overland axle is the same as are other features....

[wldavis]

On 9/29/2019 at 6:10 PM, Layden B said:

Absolutely not an Overland!!!

It appears that there are no front brakes and no brakes on the rear-most rear axle.

[John Oliver]

just ran across this post today. the only to reeves i know of where located in murray Ky. A friend of mine had these two sister cars and had recently passed away. the cars where sold to individual in Paducah ky just last year. I'm not sure what happened to them after that but i do have some names and a little history on them.... can email me at jloliver@live.com or text me 270-350-8081 for info. sorry i can't be of more help though

 

[Graham Man]

 

 

Interesting suspension

 

 

Interesting tank in the back...gas tank? 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[padgett]

CVT: 1909 Clyno. Pulled up looking for the Dafodil.

[Graham Man]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Reeves

 

In 1911, Reeves founded the Reeves Sexto-Octo Company. He modified a 1910 model Overland by adding four extra wheels and calling it the Reeves Octo-Auto. Time Magazine has named this car as one of the ugliest ever produced. At the time, however, the Octo-Auto was hailed by writer and editor Elbert Hubbard for its comfort and durability. It had a 40-horsepower engine, was over 20 feet long, sat 4 passengers, and retailed for $3200.00. The Octo-Auto was notable or notorious enough for Hemmings to feature it in 2011 as an April Fools' Day article on its website titled World celebrates the centennial of the Octo-Auto.^[8]

 

Milton Reeves driving his SextoAuto in 1912

 

Reeves SextoAuto 1912

The Octo-Auto failed to sell and in 1912 Reeves created the Sexto-Auto, a six-wheel version.^[9] The first version was a modification of the Octo-Auto. The second attempt was built on a modified Stutz Motor Company chassis and was no more successful than the first attempt. It was a luxury car, had variable speed transmission and reportedly made several cross-country jaunts. With a price of $4,500 (over $100,000 in 2014 terms) it too never caught on with the American public.

In 1914 the Reeves Pulley Company decided to sell its engine business. The Cummings Machine Company of Minster, Ohio was its purchaser in 1918.^[10]

[padgett]

Is there any evidence that the Octo-auto or the Sexto-auto used a bogey suspension ?

[Restorer32]

Pullman also built a 6 wheeled car but quickly realized it was not practical.

[Graham Man]

It appears that there are no front brakes and no brakes on the rear-most rear axle.

 

Interesting observation, you are correct.  While most cars in 1912 did not have front brakes, between the extra weight of the car +2000lbs?  and the division of that weight between the extra wheels my guess stopping in anything less than dry clean roads would be next to impossible?  I guess I do not understand why they did not add extra brakes also.  It also must have had horrible acceleration, that is a lot of extra weight and a huge amount of rotating weight to get moving.  Top speed on a 1910 Overland (40HP) most likely pretty low?

 

Can you imagine how much fun it would be to drive, the rear wheels pivoted to turn, so the far back axle must have been another front axel with mechanical steering linkage, another reason for no brakes? 

 

[Dandy Dave]

Doing a little research it seems that M.T. Reeves had over 100 Patents. There must be some on the Reeves Octoauto and Sextoauto. With that information it would likely be possible to recreate an Octo Auto with a pile of 1911 or 1912 Overland parts and creating whatever is missing. I tried doing a search for patents but the U.S. Patent office requires a patent number to bring up the patent in a quick search. Anything is possible with enough time and money. Dandy Dave!     

[mike6024]

Reeves wood-block belt transmission in housing

Wood-block belt transmissions were developed by the Reeves Pulley Company in Columbus, Indiana. According to the Historic American Engineering Record, Marshall T Reeves founded the company. They owned a variety of businesses, making farm implements, steam engines, locomotives, automobiles, and power transmission equipment. Reeves has some 50 patents issued to his name. 

[mike6024]

[Trulyvintage]

On 9/29/2019 at 11:25 PM, keithb7 said:

I am interested in learning what the inventor’s main objective was for this Octocar. Payload? Just something unique? Light ground pressure to float on mud better? To win the longest car award? Row seating for 9 plus baggage?

That decades later it would still be discussed by folks who would possibly believe it was actually built.

 

 

Jim

[playswithbrass]

A 1912 magazine article described it as quaint and was very sarcastic about the tire cost

[JFranklin]

I think about all the horse shoe nails in the road in those days!

[IndianaCarGuy]

There is nothing left of the Reeves, aside from some old, faded polaroids, when the owner died (In Kentucky) in the 1960's, the family each took off what parts they wanted, there was a Reeves engine, which was a huge 4-cylinder, Reeves power-transfer transmission, it was built on a 1911 Overland Chassis, and yes, I am avoiding telling you what I saw that was left. It is up on a hill, beside an apple tree, with a small pond just down the hill. Only about 1/3 of the frame is left, no body, one sadly decayed wheel, a single front fender, with holes, nothing of any name tags, engine, transmission, or body, a rusted remnant of a gas tank and a rusted rear axle ( only one axle was driven, apparently. The Owner and his sons tried to sell what was left to GM in the late 1950's for $50,000, I saw one polaroid, they want $7 just to see one, and $350 to see all 15. They are uncopyable, faded and grainy, look like from 1960'sand show a rust bucket which is barely recognizable except it had the 4 rear wheels. As the three sons have passed on, their families have lost interest in the rust pile, and no one really will admit who took the motor or other parts, I was NOT ALLOWED to take any pictures, and due to the rather rude, dishonest and shifty behavior of the people I talked to, I will not reveal the city, and I hope they all go to the place where such shifty, inconsiderate, GREEDY behavior befits the treatment thay gave to the car and consideration for history. In deference to a legitimate question of the city, Frankfort, 2 miles from a Restaurant which was called "Speed Queen," and I still laugh about the service there, THAT was the reason I did not wish to mention the city, for the fact someone will try and look that gang of barbarian car-killers up someday! I honestly believe these people would shoot anyone who tried to go take pictures, had I not suggested the article would be published (which it was not, because it was too sad, and neither I, nor the editor, wanted to gain them a single  dollar!)

Edited September 4, 2021 by IndianaCarGuy
Further info. (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Interesting. And sad.

[8E45E]

13 hours ago, IndianaCarGuy said:

I will not reveal the city, and I hope they all go to the place where such shifty, inconsiderate, GREEDY behavior befits the treatment they gave to the car and consideration for history.

You'd think there'd be at least ONE member of that family who would be proud enough of his or her heritage and be willing to share their great-, or great-great-grandfather's legacy, even it only now exists in old photos.

 

I don't see an issue why you don't want to reveal the city.

 

Craig

 

 

[jeff_a]

There have been all kinds of cars with 6 wheels.
    https://www.goodwood.com/grr/road/news/2021/3/six-bonkers-cars-with-six-wheels/

 

   

Edited August 21, 2021 by jeff_a (see edit history)