ID these wheels

[MrEarl 9,365]

Buick? 

What year?

Value? 

 

 

 

[Roger Barrett 57]

They are accessory demountable wheels for pre-1917 model T Ford.

[MrEarl 9,365]

Thanks, the seller said they had Buick hubcaps on them when purchased 15 years ago and that that seller claimed they were off a ‘16 Buick. 

[MrEarl 9,365]

So no way they could be Buicks? The seller is adamant that they had Buick hubcaps on them (15 years ago)  

 

my interest in them is for display in the Buick Sales and Service garage. Don’t see many with the white tires still on them. 

So whether Buick or Ford, can someone suggest a value. 

[Ben P. 605]

Well, no, those could be Buick.

*I am NOT an expert - only familiar with my own 1918 E-35*

My first thought was - I don’t doubt Buick caps could have been on them even if they weren’t Buick, it’s amazing what people can hodgepodge together in a pinch.

The Detroit name on the the lug clamp threw me as I’ve only seen Buick, Baker, or Perlman rims on them. But then I saw reference to Detroit-Perlman rims pictured below.

Any idea what size the tires or rims are? If they were 34x4 or 36x4 1/2” tires - those were used on 1916 Buick’s. Could narrow it down further.

 

Also, the hubs could well be Buick. Or at least they look similar to my 18’s (spare also pictured below).

 

As for value, I’d look into what is being asked for the individual components (ie the hubs, bolts, clamps, wedges) and go from there. The wood is shot and the steel rims (probably) could never be cleaned up and safely re-used. The seller should know that.

 

If it were me I’d just be honest and tell him I was going to use them for wall-art and I’d love to have them at $25 ea.

 

Those white tires are incredible, any idea what they are?

 

Lots of luck,

Ben P.

[MrEarl 9,365]

Wow thanks for all the info @Ben Perfitt  I'll ask the seller what size they are.  Doubting I'll end up with these as they currently reside on the Oregon coast (Tillamook) plus the owner while realizing they are wall hangings think they are rare and high dollar wall hangings. It's an antique shop I've done business with before though so I may make an offer.

I did google and find some interesting info regarding white tires though. Reading this makes me wonder if the wheels  may be older than the teens.

 

let’s take a look at whitewall history in the automobile manufacturing world. Originally, tires were off-white in color, due to the color of the natural rubber formula. Tire manufacturers then added zinc oxide to the formula, which gave the tires a brighter white appearance. White tires were not a status symbol or aesthetic feature—it was just how the tires were produced. The tires would quickly turn to a beige color as they traversed the dirt roads of yesteryear.

It wasn’t until 1910 that BFGoodrich started adding carbon black to its tires, as this ingredient added strength and durability to the rubber. Soon, most new cars rolled out of the factory on black tires, as this updated chemistry resulted in a stronger tire. Since adding carbon black to the rubber was an additional production cost, some tire companies added it only to the tread surface. This resulted in the first tire with a white sidewall quite by accident. The whitewall would later be refined, and it eventually transitioned to a strip of white rubber being added to the tire’s all-black carcass during the manufacturing process.

[Ben P. 605]

Sure.

The wheels do look like teens. If I did the math right, the 34x4” tires would be on a 26” rim. The 36x4 1/2” on a 27”. I’m assuming any original lettering might be unreadable or otherwise lost on those 100+ yr old white tires.

While black tires were introduced by 1910, most cars still rolled out of the factory on all white tires through the teens. In 1918 Buick was still using them. Not sure when that ended, but all white tires were still being made into the 20’s. 

 

It is extremely interesting that white tires are still on these wheels though - because tires didn’t last too many thousand miles then! I’m guessing these were on a car that suffered a very early death - they weren’t on very long since they both match (look closely at non-manufacture photos of teens cars - if they are clear enough you’ll notice NONE of the tires match. Just didn’t last long and folks were forced to use what was available when/where they blew out) and being all white, the newest they could be is the early 20’s.

 

Ben P.

 

[Ben P. 605]

P.S.

Including this snippet from a 1917 publication entitled ‘The Automobile Tire Handbook’ because the author cites some examples of expected mileage you could get out of tires then.

But it’s also funny as heck if you read the whole thing. The gimmickry is hysterical. I don’t know what company was behind ‘The Automobile Tire Handbook’, but they definitely had an interest in selling ‘oversized’ tires. Certainly had an interesting argument backed up with zero facts. But whatever you do... “don’t seek advice from the dealer or garage man”. They just might tell you the truth.

This public push to disbelieve the experts is nothing new.... 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Ben Perfitt
Typo (see edit history)

[Layden B 130]

What rim diameter are they?

Detroiter 1913  used 32 x 3 1/2 clincher

[Larry Schramm 3,127]

Lamar,

 

The first thing that I thought when I saw them was Model T wheels and as said earlier an aftermarket upgrade. 

 

If the seller is so adamant that they came off a Buick, ask him for the hubcap to see that it fits.  Just a thought.

[Terry Wiegand 1,866]

Ben, 

You are a very good researcher.  I really like the fact that you have some of the old catalogs and manuals to back up what you are saying.  One cannot argue with the written word on the page.  Please keep up the good work because it helps not only you, but, all of us on here.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out in Doo Dah

[Terry Wiegand 1,866]

Ben,

In the middle to late teens Buick used at least two wheel manufacturers.  There was Baker and Jaxon that I knew about.  My '16 used Baker wheels.  And then a few years ago I learned about the Perlman wheels.  I am really glad that you and others keep uncovering the information that shows that there were others out there doing the same thing in this time frame.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas