setting values

[Werne]

Hello everybody
does anyone have the settings for track crash and caster, for a 63 buick riviera

(trace fall caster)
thanks in advance werner

Edited September 25, 2019 by Werne (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

(Camber, Caster, and Toe-In?)

[Werne]

yes of course, my English is not so good, sorry, someone has the data for me, I need it urgently, thank you

[JFranklin]

1 hour ago, Werne said:

yes of course, my English is not so good, sorry, someone has the data for me, I need it urgently, thank you

Does anyone on these forums have a motors manual to help Werne out? 

[C Carl]

Hi Werne ! 

An idiomatically correct title for your needs would be :   Need Alignment Specs - '63 Riv

Why not also post under that title below in the Riviera section, or the Post War - Technical. I speak Spanish pretty well, so I understand your situation. I think the hardest thing to get exactly right in a second language is humor. Jokes are the hardest, right ?

                                                                                         Good luck, friend !   -    Carl 

Edited September 26, 2019 by C Carl (see edit history)

[RivNut]

If you're running radial tires, you don't want to use the original factory settings.  Google 'Russ Martin Nailhead' and view his website.  In the website he prescribes settings for the 63 - 65 Rivieras riding on radial tires.  Click the Tech Info heading and scroll down to Suspension.  The last paragraph tells the settings for caster, camber, and toe-in.  Good luck.

 

Ed

[Larry Schramm]

12 hours ago, RivNut said:

If you're running radial tires, you don't want to use the original factory settings.  Google 'Russ Martin Nailhead' and view his website.  In the website he prescribes settings for the 63 - 65 Rivieras riding on radial tires.  Click the Tech Info heading and scroll down to Suspension.  The last paragraph tells the settings for caster, camber, and toe-in.  Good luck.

 

Ed

 

Go here.

 

http://centervilleautorepair.com/tech-info/suspension-how-to-what-to-check-it

[NTX5467]

I will concur with what Russ states.  It has been borne out by how the OEM alignment recommendations have evolved with radial tires on "control arm" front suspensions.  It was known, earlier on, that radials were more tolerant of camber settings than bias ply tires were, due to the more flexible sidewalls of the radials, BUT that toe-in was much more critical as the stiffer tread area of the radials did not like being pushed sideways by too much toe-in or toe-out.  As the wheel is pushed against the roadway, the tire will desire to be pushed rearward, so the "toe-in" adjustment will compensate for that action upon the steering linkage, resulting a "rolling toe" of near "zero" as a result.

 

GM discovered, when the All Season radials appeared in the earlier '80s with their blockier tread designs, that to get normal wear, it was necessary to rotate the tires with EACH oil change.  Later tread designs and OEM specs put the toe-in as close to Zero as possible.  Which possibly was helped by harder suspension bushings and steering linkage joints with less deflection built into them?

 

The increased caster will result in the outer tire having negative camber in a turn, which as the car leans, will keep the outer tire more vertical to the road surface.  "Bracing" it against the turn so to speak, rather than leaning over on the outer edge (which will decrease cornering performance).  Similarly, the inside wheel will exhibit positive camber, for the same reason.  BOTH front wheels being more vertical to the road surface can help steering response.  

 

As noted, the rear track bar bushings are a somewhat over-looked/not considered factor in the handling of GM or similar rear coil spring suspended vehicles.  As can be the rear axle control arm bushings, too.  

 

One thing which Russ did not mention was "polyurethane suspension bushings" to replace the OEM Rubber bushings.  From what I've figured out, there is a reason for that recommendation not being there.  The OEM engineers needed rubber in some places to absorb forces before they got to the body structure.  There are places designed to absorb/dissipate suspension road forces, whether in the suspension, the frame/chassis, mountings thereof, or the body structure itself.  In a bod/frame construction car, the desire was to keep these things isolated closer to their origin, for the best riding/driving experience for the passengers.  Most of the front cornering forces are absorbed by the lower control arm mounts, whereas, as mentioned, the upper control arm mounts are more locational in nature.  Using the harder polyurethane items sends forces normally absorbed by the OEM rubber items to places that were not designed to deal with them, by observation.  Which can cause issues with OTHER parts of the total body structure, over time, as a result.

 

One thing I might mention is that Russ's recommendations can also work on almost any vehicle, whether radial tires or not.  I've also had good luck with running tire inflation pressures which mimic the basic vehicle's weight distribution.  I started with 30 frt/28 rear (for a basic 55/45 f/r weight distribution).  With bias ply tires, when I'd turn the wheels side to side, while stopped, the resulting rubber pattern on the concrete was a full patch, rather than having a light patch in the middle.  With 28psi being the "70mph+" inflation recommendation, with 24psi being for the "soft ride/minimum load" recommendation.  More inflation, less tire body flex as it rolled.  Longer tire life, too.  The tread wore "flat", by observation.  Those were my experiences . . . proceed at your own risk.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[old-tank]

26 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

...increased caster...

On some cars after switching to radials the steering wheel will not return to center after a turn; increasing caster is way to solve.

[Bloo]

All else being equal, radials have less rolling resistance than bias tires (but more grip).

 

Toe out (generally, on American rear wheel drive cars) causes a car to feel unstable and dart around. Toe in is set so that you never get toe out at speed, when the force caused by the rolling resistance starts to compress the suspension. Stock toe settings will work fine with radials, but due to the lower rolling resistance of the radials, less toe is actually necessary to prevent toe out at speed. If you use less toe, the tires are scrubbing less as they roll and will last longer. One half the factory setting is usually about right. You might get away with even less with experimentation. The goal is zero toe at speed.

 

More caster makes the steering return more positive, and there isn't much downside to having just a little more, particularly if the car has power steering. Don't overdo it. The caster forces of the 2 wheels oppose each other, and if the grip is getting upset a lot, it could cause some instability. On the other hand, radial tires, especially old ones, tended to be heavy, and the gyroscopic effects of the wheels were noticed more in the steering. A little extra caster and a more positive return just feels good. I have done it with plenty of Chrysler products, but never a Buick (yet). 3 or 4 degrees where 1 or 2 was specified felt really good. YMMV.

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Werne]

Thanks all

Werner