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Frozen nuts on gas line


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A few years ago I asked some questions here regarding my '53 Ford flathead V8 which was having a starting problem.  The mechanic who had my car for nearly a month was unable to figure out the issue and thanks to some here, the problem was identified correctly as air leaking into the line.  Sure enough, the gas line connection from the fuel pump was cracked.  The mechanic, without having the correct connection, cut out the rubber portion and attacked a rubber replacement hose with clamps.  The car starts and runs but I believe it now takes more effort.  Regardless, I ordered the correct replacement line which is about six inches long and attaches with nuts on both ends.  I tried to loosen the old parts and I was having no luck, fearing the two different metals somehow fused.  I have been reluctant to really torque the nut because if I am unable to keep the fuel line stable, I will kink it.  I cannot heat it to loosen it because it is a gas line.  Other than taking it to a mechanic who may have better tools than me, what other solutions might I try before resorting to that?

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Assuming these are inverted flare fittings, the usual problem is that the steel tube rusts to the inside of the flare nut. You can pretty much guarantee that you WILL kink the line. I usually just give up and plan on replacing the line. Once you make that leap, just cut the line at the flare nut and use a box end or socket to remove the old nut.

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2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

For goodness sake use a tubing wrench, not an open end wrench.  

 

  Ben

 

Two of them!

 

And not some thin things that will spread when you put torque on them. The current harbor freight ones aren't too bad, however nothing beats the old Snap-On flare wrenches with a flare head on one end and an open end on the other (RXS series ?). They cost a lot, probably best bought used, but at the end of the day, nothing else even comes close.

 

Use penetrating oil if the nut might be stuck to the tube. Go slow and careful, and when you feel the flare break free STOP until you know the nut is loose from the line. If its stuck, try working it back and forth a TINY bit. Add more penetrating oil. It might actually come loose.

 

If I am understanding this correctly, these fittings are into whats left of a crimped rubber hose? If so you can unscrew those old ends after breaking them loose, and just remove them. Then, you can deal with any flare nuts stuck to the tubing after it is apart. If this is the case, you have a very good chance of getting it apart without twisting up the lines.

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Here is a photo of what was used as a replacement.  One end of the cut hose line is in the fuel pump and you cannot see the other end which is connected to the metal fuel line, which is the one I fear kinking.  To me, the replacement hose is too large in dia. compared to the original.

5.jpg

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Well, thats 5/16, probably not to big, but I never saw the original. Might as well put the new one on if you have it, particularly if you plan on taking it to judged shows.

 

While I was looking for one of those factory-type hoses for my Pontiac, I used brass hose fittings and SAE 30R9 hose to build a "replacement". It is high pressure hose for FI systems, and on one hand its complete overkill, but the hose has a liner inside, and is rated for Ethanol, Gas, Diesel, and a bunch of other fuels, so it would be worry-free for a really long time. I used FI style clamps, painted them black, and put the screw on the underside to help them disappear. I have the correct stuff now, but am not really inclined to change it as the car is just a driver, and the "made up" hose doesn't look too bad.

 

45RJoGk.jpg

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Yes, I tried penetrating oil.  Both parts would not budge.  Maybe more and longer.  The wrenches I have are not long and I was unable to get the brass end to budge.  That is why I conjectured they fused together, somehow, being two different metals that have been connected for quite a while.  Will add more penetrating oil and do so for a longer time.  

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Do you know if it is actually a double flare? Look inside the end of your new one, you will be able to see the seat for the flare in there if it is. Double flares let go with a snap. That is normal, even when nothing is "fused". You need two strong, fat, unbendable tubing wrenches. Then, while holding back real good on one, give the other a good sudden, solid push. It also might be possible to arrange the two so that they are only a few degrees apart, with the upward offsets of the wrenches facing each other. Then maybe you can give it a good sudden squeeze. No need for follow through (better if you don't), just a sudden powerful twist. It should SNAP!

 

I cant emphasize enough that these need to be good tubing wrenches, or you will just round the flats off and then you really have a problem. 2 good box end wrenches would work if you could get them on somehow, but you probably can't. Thats why tubing wrenches exist. Harbor freight tubing wrenches would probably work.

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1 hour ago, Bloo said:

It also might be possible to arrange the two so that they are only a few degrees apart, with the upward offsets of the wrenches facing each other. Then maybe you can give it a good sudden squeeze. No need for follow through (better if you don't), just a sudden powerful twist. It should SNAP!

 

I cant emphasize enough that these need to be good tubing wrenches, or you will just round the flats off and then you really have a problem.

The only way to go.  Proper tools used properly.

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59 minutes ago, leon bee said:

I never heard em called tubing or tube wrench before. Google hasn't either, they refer you to flare nut wrenches.

 

28 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

They are “line wrenches” where I come from 🤓 

 

Must be regional. I have heard all three (for the same wrench). Whatever you call them, they are whats needed here.

 

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Saw the original fitting off at a point a six point socket will go on the hex part of the fitting. I can't tell if there is room for a 3/8 impact wrench but there does appear to be room for a 3/8 butterfly wrench. 90% of the time the fitting will come out instantly and the other 10% the fitting still comes out but brings pot metal with it. It WILL work.

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16 hours ago, Bloo said:

I think he wants to save the line, not the fitting. The fitting was part of an old expired crimped hose.

I went back and read the original post plus follow up with picture. It seems the original flex hose was replaced with a piece of neoprene hose, he wants to take this off and put on the correct flex hose. So, my answer still stands. By my method he can't save the old hose but why would he want to when he is replacing it, and it is incorrect and butchered?

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Correct.  I want to remove the old fittings which had been adapted by adding the replacement hose.  Right now I am adding penetrating oil, again, to the fittings and am hoping more will help.  I like the idea of cutting off the hose and getting a socket wrench in there but IF either nut doesn't budge....I'm screwed to still start and drive. I am not as concerned with the line going into the fuel pump as I am with the other end--the gas line.  I do not want to twist that one!

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:15 PM, leon bee said:

I never heard em called tubing or tube wrench before. Google hasn't either, they refer you to flare nut wrenches.

 

 Yeah, Leon, flare nut is what Craftsman calls them. I grew up with "tubing" wrench.Old habits are hard to break.

 

  Ben

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YOU GUYS ARE GOOD!  I had used some penetrating oil on the ends and added again the next day.  Then, as one recommended, I tightened just slightly and it backed out of the fuel pump with ease!  Now to work on the more difficult part--the metal gas line.  Will get longer tools for that adventure so I can have more control and torque.  Getting there!

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On 9/20/2019 at 7:02 AM, CCruz said:

The car starts and runs but I believe it now takes more effort. 

 

All the above about wrenches is 100% true BUT. . . . none of it may solve your problem.

 

What do you mean 'it take more effort'???   More effort to do what?

A 'too big' fuel line is not really going to cause problems. 

 

Are you having trouble starting? Is it hard to start after sitting a while?  Is it running bad on the highway?

You may end up with a nice looking fuel line, but find that your problem remains. 

Tell us more. 

 

Edited by m-mman (see edit history)
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