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Score sheet results discussion?


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I’m going to my first AACA show with a car in Hershey this year and I’m trying to understand a little more. My question is, after your car is judged and deductions are made, does the head judge explain the deficiencies found with you so you can correct them. I understand that the other judges cannot speak with you but I’m curious how one knows what to correct for future showing. 

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After the show, you can request a "read out" from the VP of Judging. What you will receive is a blank (no numbers) judging sheet with the areas in which your car received deductions highlighted. So, you will not receive any information on the number of points that were deducted, but you will know every area where you received any deductions. I would expect a very small amount of highlighting on your sheet. The VP of Judging can also possibly give you some additional feedback to help you narrow down any questions but he will not discuss the number of points deducted.  

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Assuming there were no mistakes made, the judging sheets are pretty easy to tell if it's your car. Incorrect parts, incorrect finish, or condition. While I've never been part of the discussion on why things are set up the way they are I think the not revealing points and 10 point spread for awards is a ideal way to ensure a small mistake or differences in judges is rarely the reason a car moves down a rank. And FWIW captains are generally very good at questioning and training a judge who might be overly zealous as well as one that might be missing some things. Also since only one judge is handling an entire class for any given area, and that cars only compete within their class, greatly helps balance out judging "styles".

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All this is good to know but I am worried on some things with my car. The reason is I’ve done a ton of research on my Olds and have worked with the current NAOC 32’ Olds technical adviser plus the prior one to make my restoration as close to OEM as possible. There are other 32’ Olds that have won their juniors that have items that are known to those few who are knowledgeable with the 32’ Olds, as being incorrect. Some are very noticeable, some aren’t, but those items were done differently on Olds compared to most other 32’ brands so I assume the judges might miss them. If they look at my car and see that only the bell of my horns are chrome and the trumpet tube is painted, they might deduct points because most cars aren’t that way and other Olds that have won the junior aren’t either. Same for the wheel and body pinstripes. If the judges don’t question me and just assume my car is incorrect, how will I be able to address this?

 

also have another question: are the classes kept together? In other words, would all class 20B cars, 32-33’ production cars, all be lined up in the same area? Are cars and their general classes kept in the same area of the show grounds year after year? If so, where are the cars of the early 30’s parked?

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Yes, cars are parked by class. I don't have an old showfield layout map handy, but from memory, I would say that class 20B is somewhere near the front of the showfield, probably about 4 or 5 rows back from Hockersville Road. 

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10 hours ago, chistech said:

All this is good to know but I am worried on some things with my car. The reason is I’ve done a ton of research on my Olds and have worked with the current NAOC 32’ Olds technical adviser plus the prior one to make my restoration as close to OEM as possible. There are other 32’ Olds that have won their juniors that have items that are known to those few who are knowledgeable with the 32’ Olds, as being incorrect. Some are very noticeable, some aren’t, but those items were done differently on Olds compared to most other 32’ brands so I assume the judges might miss them. If they look at my car and see that only the bell of my horns are chrome and the trumpet tube is painted, they might deduct points because most cars aren’t that way and other Olds that have won the junior aren’t either. Same for the wheel and body pinstripes. If the judges don’t question me and just assume my car is incorrect, how will I be able to address this?

 

also have another question: are the classes kept together? In other words, would all class 20B cars, 32-33’ production cars, all be lined up in the same area? Are cars and their general classes kept in the same area of the show grounds year after year? If so, where are the cars of the early 30’s parked?

Hopefully,  you obtained factory documentation on those unique items for your Olds. Bring it with you. The team captain will check on the class prior to judging. Make a point of telling the team captain that you have factory documentation. 

For what it is worth, there is a show field map on the Hershey AACA web site. It does not show where the classes are for this year. Matthew's description seems accurate to me.  Besides,  Hershey Region members do a great job of showing you where your class is and offering guidance. 

BTW, production classes do have different brands being judged together. Team captains know there are distinct differences. And It sounds like you are well prepared.  Now go and enjoy the experience. 

Edited by Phillip Cole (see edit history)
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Thanks Phil. Yes, I have documentation on most everything from factory bulletins, factory photos, and forensic photos taken during disassembly. I am preparing a folder with all that info. That’s a good idea to let the head judge know at the start that I have documentation of things that they might consider incorrect, as my fear was they might not ask me and assume something is incorrect having seen it done another way on another 32’ Olds that’s already won previous AACA awards. Very little is known on the 32’ Olds models and I have done many hours of research and spoken with the few who know the most. I just don’t want my goal of exactly OEM to come back and hurt me in the scoring. Don’t get me wrong that I’m insinuating the judges don’t know their job, it is that someone really has to dig deep into the Olds to really know of all the small and different things done in these cars. To give you an idea, we’ve discovered at least three running changes in the hood assemblies during the production year, two very significant chassis/front motor mount changes,  even the use of eight cylinder indented firewalls on six cylinder cars, and small things like angle cut exhaust pipe ends on deluxe cars with luggage racks to rear spare tire models with straight cut tailpipes! As you can see, I probably went way overboard with my research. 😆 

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11 hours ago, chistech said:

If they look at my car and see that only the bell of my horns are chrome and the trumpet tube is painted, they might deduct points because most cars aren’t that way and other Olds that have won the junior aren’t either. Same for the wheel and body pinstripes. If the judges don’t question me and just assume my car is incorrect, how will I be able to address this?


We are not all knowing as judges. You the owner will know more about your model car than we do. We often judge cars we know little about. You don't even need to know all that much about cars to be a judge, the guidelines are built for this. Before we would mark something as being incorrect finish or part all together we are trained to ask for factory documentation. We learn while judging for sure. But you're more likely to get away with something out of our ignorance than to be marked wrong for it. Judges don't want to sound too silly and ask about everything. We are also specifically trained NOT to compare cars within a class for the purpose of judging, though as people, that might cause us to at least ask the question if we notice a difference.

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Thanks for explaining that Doug. As I mentioned, I’m new to showing and I’m just concerned with having everything right and being prepared best I can. While I’m confident my car will do well, I still can’t stop being somewhat nervous I suppose.

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I have found, as a judge, that if there is a major deduction when judging a car, the Team Captain will speak with the owner and tell them where the major deduction occurred.  He will not discuss the number of points deducted but will be courteous with the owner in advising the area of the deduction.  If the owner has factory documentation of the area in question he may show it to and discuss it with the Team Captain.  Such documentation is necessary to prove what may be correct and I have witnessed changes in scoring as a result of such documentation.  In addition to sales literature I find that a dated factory service manual, with service bulletins, is excellent proof of how the vehicle was constructed.

 

It sounds like you are well on your way to showing your '32 Olds at Hershey.  As a frequent exhibitor as well as a judge I will close by saying, remain calm and relax while your car is being judged.  The judges are there to make sure each car judged receives the award it has earned, not to take away awards.

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