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Thank you all for your input, of course the ultimate example of this tax avoidance were the small SIX cylinder British cars in the early 1930s..

Most of the British manufacturers built one. In 1930-36 Austin had the 12-Six  with a 61.25mm Bore. Hillman in 1928-32 went one better with their 8 cylinder Vortic 63mm Bore.  In 1929 for just one year Humber had their Six-50, 65mm Bore.  Lanchester had a Light Six, in 1933-37 with a 57mm Bore. MG worked their way through the Alphabet starting with their L type, then K and N, Magnettes all with the same 57mm Bore. Morris followed suit with their 10-Six also 57mm Bore.  Riley produced their version with the 14-Six and  Stelvio 1929-34, 60.3mm Bore and the MPH 1934-5 with a 57mm Bore. In 1932 Rover had their 6 cylinder Pilot 12, 59mm Bore. Singer also joined in with their 1933, 14hp, 60mm Bore. In 1933 Standard introduced their "Little 12" with a 57mm Bore. Talbot not wanting to be left out had a 12/30 as early as 1922-24 again with a 57mm Bore.  In 1932, Triumph produced their 12/16 with a 56.5mm Bore.  Even Vauxhall by 1934 under General Motors rule produced their "Light Six" with a 57mm Bore.  Not wanting to left out, in 1931 Wolseley produced the Hornet Six, 57mm Bore.

I am sure that their must be one or two I have overlooked and I do hope I have not bored you with all this. 

 

Now back to my current project, the 1935 Singer 11hp with just Four Cylinders and 66.5mm Bore.

I am about to order the steel tube for my body frame. I find it is better to construct this onto the chassis BEFORE I clean and paint it. This way I avoid the risk of damaging the new paint. I build the body frame straight onto the frame and then remove it to paint the chassis later. The first step is to fit the radiator, so I know the height to build the scuttle to.

BUT wait I am reminded that I must look at lowering the rear springs before I do anything else.

Even before I do that I must have a clean and tidy in the garage so I can start work without the need to be constantly moving "stuff" to create some "elbow room".

It is now just after 10.oo AM and I have yet to open the garage door!

 

Bernie j.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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13 hours ago, oldcar said:

 

I am sure that their must be one or two I have overlooked and I do hope I have not bored you with all thisI see what you did there Bernie....😂

 

Now back to my current project, the 1935 Singer 11hp with just Four Cylinders and 66.5mm Bore.

I am about to order the steel tube for my body frame. I find it is better to construct this onto the chassis BEFORE I clean and paint it. This way I avoid the risk of damaging the new paint. I build the body frame straight onto the frame and then remove it to paint the chassis later. The first step is to fit the radiator, so I know the height to build the scuttle to.

BUT wait I am reminded that I must look at lowering the rear springs before I do anything else.

Even before I do that I must have a clean and tidy in the garage so I can start work without the need to be constantly moving "stuff" to create some "elbow room".

It is now just after 10.oo AM and I have yet to open the garage door!

 

Bernie j.

 

Can't wait to see what you come up with!

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Hi Frank

You have to realise these things take time, I am sorry you will just have to wait. 

BUT please consider that what I am attempting to replicate is a typical ENGLISH 2/4 seater sporting tourer from the Early to Mid 1930s. 

Remember too that I do not use an English Wheel, so no "compound curves". 

Perhaps a slightly larger version of the Austin 12/Six (as in the photographs) is about the best description I can give you for now.

Even "simple" bodies like this one takes time. Being a 2/4 seater (longer wheel base) the Singer should have a door on the passenger side.

In the second photograph you can just see the rear of the Lagonda Rapier so this should give you a "clue". They are all from the same 1930s period. 

 

Take a look at the square tube "body frame" in the first photograph. every piece of tube had to be cut and fitted by hand, every joint gas welded using a hand held oxy-acetylene torch. All this by the one pair of 80+ year-old hands.

I have used this same process for every "body" I have built in the past 50/60 years.

 

Some people will never learn. Most other people just sign the cheques...............

Have a think about it, I even make the little things such as the dash-board "Glove-box".

None of these things are delivered to the door "ready made". Just the 6 metre long, lengths of steel tube. and sheets of aluminium.

 

Perhaps this will be the "Last one ever". 

 

Bernie j

 

No offence meant, but having re-read the above, I cannot help wondering how many people,  if any,  can truly appreciate what I am doing?

 

 

 

1884913965_Austin004.thumb.jpg.64c6a7c82878f9b29ae085bd131659b0.jpg534122255_Austin005.thumb.jpg.a7b0365ba32db371fa7e8c8850ed4784.jpg

 

854798400_Austin008.thumb.jpg.4dafae43cc3dd066c2a9dcd49207b671.jpg

 

253459343_Austin126015.thumb.jpg.771d38859a0521cf7f1eabeafdf434bd.jpg

 

 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Thank you "Merrill" Frank Dale and the one "other" I appreciate your "Thumbs up" but no one answers my questions. This leads me to believe that no one really understands what I am trying to do.  Of course I did not include the "before" photographs of the Austin 12/Six featured above.

I will include them now. Virtually all my "rebuilds" come into my carport is similar condition to this Austin. 

My current project the 1935 Singer 11 while perhaps not quite as derelict adds to its degree of difficulty by virtue of its extremely advanced (for a 1930s Singer)  specification.

Incidentally, the Austin featured in these and  previous photographs has now been painted Black for it new role as an "ICE & SNOW" Racer in Switzerland.

 

Bernie j.

 

 

Austin 001.jpg

Austin 002.jpg

Austin 003.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Hi Bernie...

In all fairness, you should keep in mind that what you are doing is completely alien to about 98% of the people who participate in this forum. Many will appreciate it and happily follow your progress but to ask them to appreciate the process is asking a lot. There are, of course, exceptions but the overwhelming emphasis of this site (at least as I have come to see it) is on how a car looks, not how it works. One of the things I've learned by doing my own creative work is that there is a big difference between knowing how something is done and knowing how to do it but it is very difficult to convey that sort of expertise unless the person you are conveying it to has a basic understanding of how things work.

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Thank you both JV and Mike.

It is interesting that virtually all the Singers shown on the video were 9hp. by the most common and widely used of all Singers. I think that with the exception of one 1935 "Bantam" I have never owned a Singer "9". That particular Bantam had three lives during my ownerships. It had started life as a 2 door Saloon but what above all else  made it different was the Chassis Number , which identified it as the very first Bantam to be built.  LC-00001  That it has an "earlier "Junior" radiator was simply a matter of convenience, and what I had on the "shelf" at the time. Oh, yes, it is the same car.1811802814_MelbourneMotorBodyWorks.thumb.jpeg.b016d34bea2b523313547979fed575c1.jpeg

 662511482_MelbourneMotorBodyWorks1.thumb.jpeg.107a3327bc3251d4e070683e392b3276.jpeg

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13 hours ago, oldcar said:

I appreciate your "Thumbs up" but no one answers my questions. This leads me to believe that no one really understands what I am trying to do.

 

Hello Bernie,

 

I for one appreciate the thought and work that goes into turning a rusty wreck of a saloon car into a pretty period looking sports car. Although I have designed and built a few 'space framed' race cars in the 60's and 70's I have not, until now, ever considered using a similar technique to build a body for a vintage car. I was very interested to see the photo of the 'skeleton body' of the Austin. It looks as if you weld the tubing together, rather than, the nickel bronze welding that I used to do. I would be very interested to see more detailed photos of your method of making the curves in the tubing. Presumably you use ERW tubing? What size and gauge of box section tube do you use? It is good that you can visualize the shape without resorting to initially drawing out the body shape.

 

I look forward to reading and seeing photos of your build on this unusual Singer.

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Hello Bernie,

I sure appreciate what you are doing and how you approach your body building.  Your style is a bit different from the typical stuff being built here in the US.   I am not real sure that I have a handle on the "Rat Rods" being built here in the US.  I guess to each his own.  I am also saving, still, the Alvis TA-21 that I have outback that will be my British style inspired special.  I will be using some left over Singer 4AD body parts, for my build, as I really like the smooth lines of the Singer Roadster.   I just can't decide if I want to build a timber structure or steel tube.  I do not want to have the nasty potential for future galvanic corrosion between the steel tube and aluminum skin.  What are your thoughts?

Al

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I will answer Al first as I will need to take some photographs for Mike which I will set up later. 

 

Al; I usually either use pre painted tube or if time permits paint the frame, Most steel tube is treated with some form of galvanising.

 

I have never had a problem with my welded joints. For heavy gauge steel I tend to use Electric (arc) welding.

 

I am waiting for my order for steel tube to be delivered on Monday (tomorrow). so I will take some photographs then.

 

Bj

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I am pleased to report that the new "body" for the Singer was delivered today. 

 

Bj.

 

DSCN6578.thumb.jpg.7331664b3113c14fe121de922f906aa8.jpgDSCN6577.thumb.jpg.f00dc694675f176ae7d0fae73cd3dcb8.jpg

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27 minutes ago, oldcar said:

I am pleased to report that the new "body" for the Singer was delivered today. 

 

Bj. 220.25 kB · 0 downloads

 

DSCN6578.thumb.jpg.7331664b3113c14fe121de922f906aa8.jpgDSCN6577.thumb.jpg.f00dc694675f176ae7d0fae73cd3dcb8.jpg

 

 

Hello Bernie,

 

There is something about laying a new order of painted RHS/SHS on the workshop floor that gets the blood moving. 

I will be one of the many watching your progress with interest. 

 

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After a spell of a "couple of years" I am relived to discover that I have not forgotten how to weld.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Bernie, Some things never go away, Kinda like riding a bike! You may be a bit rusty (pun intended) but that soon goes away as your mind and hands get it back together.

Al

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Thank you all, 

It must be my reaction to "ageing".  I find it is good to have a reason to get out of bed in the mornings. Something to keep me motivated. I feel that this is lacking in so many people of my age and even younger. I must confess that I tend to "use" this forum. I appreciate all your comments, through those I know that I am not iust another "silly old bugger". My elder brother died last Saturday after spending the last two or three years "in care". Something I absolutely refuse to let happen to me. I am still two or three weeks  away from my 83rd Birthday and I am already planing how I intend to celebrate my 85th. To achieve this will mean that I have to work hard to finish the Singer. 

As with all my projects!   They are all undertaken with a "plan in mind".  

This may sound slightly crazy but doing my "project cars" is the only way that I can SAVE a "reasonable amount of money". This is the only way I know that I can contribute my share of our overseas trips.  It is all about "That green stuff that DON"T grow on trees"! 

For me it is better than putting money in the Bank! You cannot get it out until the project is finished........

 

Bernie j.

 

Now that you all know, please do not tell anyone else.................................................and SMILE.

 

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How do you intend to handle the rear, tail section? It seems the earlier models (in that video) the rear is very squared-off, with a trunk/suitcase mounted and two spares. The newer ones seem to have that swooping tail. It seems to me either could be done without invoking compound curves and the English Wheel. I am supposing you would go with the earlier, squared-off tail. Or maybe something else of your own design.

 

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Screenshot (3).png

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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Hi Mike

It must be my inner traditionalist coming out, Having made a start on the body frame I have decided that because of the original wheel-base, that the body must be, as I had previously stated, an "occassional" 2/4 seater. To keep a balance with this length I believe that I would be making a mistake to attempt to lower the radiator. The result would in all probability be in "Canine terms" more of a Dashound that an Airedale terrier. Woof woof. Being something of a Sporting Terrier lover, I would always go for the Airedale.

 As any Airedale owner will tell you, the breed is very much the "Sporting Gentleman" of dogs.

The more sporting Singers seem to have been aimed mainly at the "Trials" competitor. The Two Spares meant that the cars could carry an alternative pair of rear wheels fitted with "low pressure mud and or snow" tyres. These could be fitted quickly at the start of a trials section and then just a quickly changed back to the road wheels. 

Wheels are going to be one of the many things I will have to sort out. The Singer has been "retro" fitted with Rudge Whitworth splined hubs with Knock on wheel caps to retain the wheels. The car came fitted with MG "A" 15 inch wheels which are completely unsuitable. The original size  wheels were 16 inch fitted with 5.50 tyres. I have one pair of almost useable 16 inch rims. These need to be built onto a pair of RW hubs. I still have to decide what size road-wheels I need to buy to go onto the car. Meanwhile I can "push it around" on the 15inch. It may seem that I am doing things in reverse order to my normal restoration. 
I have decided to finish the body including interior trim etc, BEFORE doing the engine, brakes etc. These can be attended to while the body is removed for painting and trim.

It appears to me that today there is much more emphasis on the cosmetic detail,  as in being more appropriate for "Collector Cars"!

Cars that in the long run may never "turn a wheel",  than having a fully rebuilt engine that "starts on the button".

To answer Mike's question the Singer will almost certainly have twin spare wheels mounted at the rear. Rather than a rear mounted "slab"petrol tank, the fuel tank will be tucked in under the rear seat.

Again I do not think that today, it is necessary to make provision for a petrol tank that will carry sufficient fuel for a non stop journey of 400 to 500 miles.

 

Bernie j.

 

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I seem to have problem with my email but I can still access this page. Work has actually started and is progressing with my new body frame for the Singer.

This is going quietly and by this time next week I should be able to show you that I have not been completely slacking off.  

Sorry but no photographs as yet. Come back in a week or ten days time.

 

Bernie j.

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Hello Again

I still have not complete;ly solved my computer problem but  it did let me in here today. Work on the (Steel tube) body frame is progressing but no photographs as yet. I am about to make a start on the (passenger side) door. I have packed up early today (Sunday) and will miss Monday morning (Petanque) and Tuesday, another funeral! 

So please do not hold your breath. I would think that at the rate I am going with multiple days lost that it will take another week or even two. 

I am delighted with the way it is progressing and despite the lack of "drawings" it all seems to be falling into place. At this stage I feel that I have done the right thing by not cutting down the radiator height. I will have a better idea when I can move it out of my "garage" and get a proper look at it. 

 

Back to work. Who was it that said "80 is the New 60"?

 

Bernie ?

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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For you Bernie 80 is thenew40 keep up the pace young man and we will try and keep up,good luck with the new old project,   Dave

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Hello Again, Thank you Dave I always thought that it was the daily glass of good "Southern Australian Shiraz".

I still have not complete;ly solved my computer problem but  it did let me in here today. Work on the (Steel tube) body frame is progressing but no photographs as yet.

I am about to make a start on the passenger side door. I have packed up early today (Sunday) and will miss Monday morning (Petanque).

 

It is now Monday afternoon and I have just "finished" for the day. The rate that I am going through 4 inch "cut off" blades in my angle grinder I must be making some progress. The pile of steel tube is going down. I think I know where it is disappearing to but should know for sure before the week is out.

But please do not continue to hold your breath. 

 

Bernie j.

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Hello Bernie,

For your shaping work are you using a conventional grinder with cutoff discs or have do you use a "high speed" Metabo? 

Al

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Hello Al

I am using a Markita (Bosch Copy) 100 mm angle grinder with a 1mm "cut off"(for cutting both ordinary steel & stainless) blade. There are two or three "labels" but it is difficult to say if one is any better than another.

They have a short but useful life. Anything up to 10 (ten) per day. At around an Aust $1.50 each they are "affordable"

 

Bj..

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Hello Bernie,

I prefer using the Metabo any place I can due to the fact of a much more precision cut and less heat distortion.  A cutting torch is brutal compared to the cut of a high speed grinder!

Al

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Hi Al

I cannot remember when I last used my Oxy torch for anything other than welding and the occassional" bend".

 

Bj

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