63 Wheels- one year only?

[Zimm63]

Do I recall correctly that the hub diameter is different in 63 than 64/65?  Are 63 wheels one year only?

 

I am getting ready to swap out my 8 year old tires, even though they have very few miles.  When I had them put on, the installer told me that the spare wheel was bent and that I should really look for another one.    I did replace a tire a couple years ago and plan to use that for a spare. 

 

Have I got this right?  If so, does anyone have a straight wheel for a 63 they are willing to let go of?

 

Thanks

[Turbinator]

Zimm, I have them in Lutherville stacked up like cord wood. The 65 has the larger inside hole diameter.

The 63/64 are the same size inside hole diameter.

The wheels for 63,64, and 65 are either 5 1/2” or 6” wide 5 on 5.

I check for a true spin, the wheels are media blasted and powder coated black. This the way I prepare and sell the wheels.

PM me if interested 

Terminator

[1965rivgs]

1 minute ago, Turbinator said:

Zimm, I have them in Lutherville stacked up like cord wood. The 65 has the larger inside hole diameter.

The 63/64 are the same size inside hole diameter.

The wheels for 63,64, and 65 are either 5 1/2” or 6” wide 5 on 5.

I check for a true spin, the wheels are media blasted and powder coated black. This the way I prepare and sell the wheels.

PM me if interested 

Terminator

Bob,

`65 wheel has a SMALLER center hole. 

Tom

[Turbinator]

Tom, thanks for straightening me out on this one. Another good source was probably confused when he told me the difference. Of course, it could be me that was very well confused. I have a metal paint marker I’m going label the few I have what is what. I think playing all the football without a helmet is starting to take effect.

 

Turbinator

[RivNut]

When Buick made the Formula Five Wheel (what we call the rally wheel) available as an option in '65, they put a register ring in the wheel (the 64 Wildcat only wheel did not have this ring) so that it would be a hub centric wheel rather than just riding on the lug nuts and studs.  In order to add this ring to the wheel, the hub diameter had to be made smaller to fit into the register ring.  SO.  If you'll remember that the rally wheel was NOT an option on the 63 and 64 Riviera, you can figure out when the hub diameter got smaller.  Yes Virginia, all of those 63 and 64 Rivieras showing up at the ROA meet and entering as 'stock' are not stock if they're shod with rally wheels.   

Edited September 8, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Pat Curran]

A quick way to make sure you are getting the right wheel is to look for the cut outs for the turbine wheel covers.  They all had them even if you didn’t have that option.

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

, all of those 63 and 64 Rivieras showing up at the ROA meet and entering as 'stock' are not stock if they're shod with rally wheels. 

 

I thought those were called obligatory wheels.

 

Somewhere back in the early days I heard those wheels called "Styled Steel" wheels and that always stuck in my head. Rally has always meant a couple of guys in a Volvo, one driving and one busy with a map and a stop watch. Over on the other side of some showrooms that had small cars of that type, but with a 117" wheelbase I figured the Riviera was a small car.

 

How I remember the large hubs: I didn't know the difference and found a very nice pair of '65 rear drums. I glass beaded them, epoxy primed, and satin black urethaned them. The hole was too small to put them on. I put them in a lathe and hogged out about 1/8" from the center hole. My car is a '64.

 

Bernie

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, Pat Curran said:

A quick way to make sure you are getting the right wheel is to look for the cut outs for the turbine wheel covers.  They all had them even if you didn’t have that option.

The '65 and later also had the four holes; they were used for poverty cap clips on the lower end models.

 

The easiest way for me to tell the difference is the center hole itself.  On the 63 / 64 wheel, there's just a plain hole.  On the 65 and later wheels, the center hole has a lip on it.

 

All of the following pictures are of the face of the wheel.  

 

Here's a picture of a 63/64 wheel. The center hole just looks big and there's no lip on it.  It has the four holes for the turbine covers/clips for poverty caps AKA dog dish caps.

 

Here's a picture of a '65 and later wheel.

 

The center hole just looks smaller and there's a lip around the hole.  It too has the four holes, but the turbine cover was not available in '65 so these are for poverty cap clips.

 

 

You can, if you're in a pinch, even use wheels from earlier years.  They have the same diameter center hole as the 63 / 64 wheel but they have five holes for clips AND the humps for rivet clearance have a small hole in the center.  These small holes were used for aligning the wheel on the brake drum.  These cars did not use lug nuts, they used lug bolts.  The brake drum had a locating pin on it and you put the locating pin through a small hole and the threaded holes on the brake drum/hub would line up for the lug bolts. But they're the same width and have the same back spacing.  Use them on a 63/64 with base wheel covers or wire wheel covers.  On a '65 they'll work but they won't be hub centric.

 

 

 

 

Here's a picture of a brake drum with the locating pin and holes for lug bolts.

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ed

 

 

[Turbinator]

On 9/8/2019 at 6:23 PM, Pat Curran said:

A quick way to make sure you are getting the right wheel is to look for the cut outs for the turbine wheel covers.  They all had them even if you didn’t have that option.

Pat, would you speculate why the 65 steel wheel seems to be more abundant than the 63/64 wheels?

thanks

Turbinator

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Pat, would you speculate why the 65 steel wheel seems to be more abundant than the 63/64 wheels?

thanks

Turbinator

Not necessarily.  The wheel came before the turbine cover.  The cover was adapted to fit the existing wheel.  The slots were used  for the clips for poverty caps.  I've removed a few of these clips from earlier wheels.

[Pat Curran]

3 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Pat, would you speculate why the 65 steel wheel seems to be more abundant than the 63/64 wheels?

thanks

Turbinator

Not really sure.  I have never had to search for one.

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, Pat Curran said:

Not really sure.  I have never had to search for one.

Pat, thanks for your timely response. I was just wondering why one group of wheels is more readily available.

Turbinator

[awk409ak]

Rivnut,

Yes Virginia, all of those 63 and 64 Rivieras showing up at the ROA meet and entering as 'stock' are not stock if they're shod with rally wheels.

 

So what defines STOCK, anything on the is on the option sheet?  So a dealer adding the Wildcat wheel on a 64 Riviera is not considered stock?  I understand if they were 65 wheels, but why aren't the 64 wheel considered as a dealer option?  Putting together a list of the option that are on my Riviera and getting a window sticker done.  Was going to ask around for a price of the 64 Wildcat wheels.

 

Art

[RivNut]

Were they a dealer option any more than ordering all of the pretty items for the A9 option and calling your car a Gran Sport?   I'd say that unless you have the proof in writing, you shouldn't be able to do it.  Or you can take a picture of the code # and date stamp on the wheel.  You'd have to run the Wildcat wheel with the Wildcat center cap since no Riviera center cap came out until 1965. Just saying that when we see car being offered for sale, we take great pride in finding fault with it.  Should go both ways; you find something wrong with that car, they can find something wrong with yours.

[awk409ak]

Rivnut,

I was just trying to clarify something about the wheels.  I do have what appears to be Wildcat wheel with the Wildcat center button cap.  I have not found a date code yet.  I know that does not that they really are Wildcat wheels.  But is someone going to want the wheel remove to see date code?  I'll keep looking for date code.😊

 

Thanks,

Art

[RivNut]

38 minutes ago, awk409ak said:

Rivnut,

I was just trying to clarify something about the wheels.  I do have what appears to be Wildcat wheel with the Wildcat center button cap.  I have not found a date code yet.  I know that does not that they really are Wildcat wheels.  But is someone going to want the wheel remove to see date code?  I'll keep looking for date code.😊

 

Thanks,

Art

Art,

 

There are a couple of things that you can look at without taking a tire off. One, which can be changed, is the color of the webs. If they're light gray and you think that's original paint then the other thing to go along with that is that in 64, because of the big hubs, there were no register rings welded into the back of the wheel.  Usually, you can see where register rings have been removed if the car originally came with them.  There are two different diameter center holes where the caps fit; 2" or 2-1/8".  I don't have access to that info right now, but if someone doesn't post it soon, I'll get to it in a couple of days.

 

Ed

[RivNut]

Stumbled across it.  I'm sure there are some wheels out there that don't fit these parameters, but it's a good start.  So you don't need to dismount a tire, there's no code in the '64 wheels.  It appears that the only difference between the 64 Wildcat wheel and the 65 wheel is that the 64 is a lighter color and has no register ring.  

 

[awk409ak]

Rivnut,

I was looking for the stamping on the back side of the wheel rim.  I was not planning on removing the tire at this point.  I will post pictures as soon as I get them from my phone.  The web area is silverish or light gray.  No sign of register ring or mod's made.  The hole is 2".

 

Art

[RivNut]

1 minute ago, awk409ak said:

Rivnut,

I was looking for the stamping on the back side of the wheel rim.  I was not planning on removing the tire at this point.  I will post pictures as soon as I get them from my phone.  The web area is silverish or light gray.  No sign of register ring or mod's made.  The hole is 2".

 

Art

No stampings on the back side; the only ID ( 1965 and later) is on the rim and can't be read without removing the tire.  

[awk409ak]

So it appear that I could have Wildcat wheels?  Here some pictures.  Center cap black has washed off so I need to repaint it or find replacements.  Hole is 2".

[RivNut]

If I were in your shoes, I'd put a really high price on those wheels and caps and find a 64 Wildcat owner who'd like to step up a notch.  Take the money and buy a different set of wheels and caps and put the rest of the money in your IRA.  I'm betting that buyer is out there somewhere.  Try finding another complete set in good condition.

[awk409ak]

Your JOKING right. 

Yea, but I really like the wheels on the Riv.  It does add some conversation and mystery to the car.   Did this Riv come with them, was it ordered this way,  was it a dealer that added them on for an addition charge or did the previous owner just add them. 

Thanks,

Art   

[Turbinator]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:28 PM, RivNut said:

If I were in your shoes, I'd put a really high price on those wheels and caps and find a 64 Wildcat owner who'd like to step up a notch.  Take the money and buy a different set of wheels and caps and put the rest of the money in your IRA.  I'm betting that buyer is out there somewhere.  Try finding another complete set in good condition.

Ed, the thing I see different from other Rally wheels ( in this subject) is the color gray , as opposed to black, and the Wildcat emblem. I must say they do look sharp. Does not appear to me hard to make up a set? The emblem is very nice.

Turbinator

 

[Pat Curran]

3 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Ed, the thing I see different from other Rally wheels ( in this subject) is the color gray , as opposed to black, and the Wildcat emblem. I must say they do look sharp. Does not appear to me hard to make up a set? The emblem is very nice.

Turbinator

 

The webs on the 1965 chrome wheel were dark gray from the factory.  Never black for this particular year.  The same gray was used for the recessed areas on the rocker panel moldings and the clamshell visors.  You see many restorations that have used black and it isn't correct.

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Turbinator said:

Ed, the thing I see different from other Rally wheels ( in this subject) is the color gray , as opposed to black, and the Wildcat emblem. I must say they do look sharp. Does not appear to me hard to make up a set? The emblem is very nice.

Turbinator

 

Those 64 only, Wildcat only center caps are extremely rare.  I challenge anyone to find a complete set in good condition.  I'm saying that he could replicate the wheels using a later year wheel, painting the webs the same silver, and using a Riviera cap.  Many a 64 Wildcat owner would pay handsomely for a genuine set of 64 Wildcat rally wheels with the correct cap.  That center cap is stamped.  It would require a lot to make a press that could reproduce it in a limited number.

[telriv]

IF you want something EXTREMELY RARE I have a set of "Motor Wheel Spyders". 5x5x15x6 in good condition I MAY part with for the right   $$$$

 

Tom T.

[awk409ak]

Hi All,

Does anyone know if they made these Wildcat cap with silver back ground around the wildcat.  I know of the black around the wildcat, that common.  Mine are silver and it does not look like the black has faded or worn off.  All four of mine look the same, silver.  Also it appears to be a sticker of some kind.  The wildcat is not stamped in the metal cap, see the backside of cap
.  

Here's 3 of my cap.  The fourth one I was tape off the wildcat, thinking of painting around it black, but stop to ask the above question.  In no hurry to paint them really.

 

Ed, 

I took your challenge, ha ha, not really, but found four 64 center caps.  $760 and from the picture could be a little iffy condition.

 

Art

[RivNut]

In this picture, it appears that there is an insert of some sort behind the stamped Wilcat.  It's not part of the cap that has the mounting tangs on it.   ??

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Here are a couple of pages from 1964 Buick sales brochures that show the Wildcat center cap. Both on the rally wheel and the spoked wheel cover.  In both applications, the Wildcat is surrounded by a black background.

 

[awk409ak]

Ed,

You're right!  I have that same brochure on the colors, and yes it black around the wildcat.

 

Thanks,

Art

[Turbinator]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:02 AM, awk409ak said:

Ed,

You're right!  I have that same brochure on the colors, and yes it black around the wildcat.

 

Thanks,

Art

Art, I can replicate the Wildcat emblem you are talking about.

$760? Not hardly. In the pics are my handiwork replicating the 63 TriShield and 64 Riviera emblem.

[awk409ak]

I was considering masking the cat, then spraying the back ground black.  I haven't started it, because it's not a high priority.  $760, no way.  I still have to get my dash pad done.

 

Art

[RivNut]

Turb, 

I'm not wanting to take anything from you, and from your previous post I don't think that I am, but if Art wants Wildcat center caps in a turbine spinner, he'd be better off getting ahold of a  set of base 1964 Wildcat wheel covers and swapping centers I like I do with base Riviera covers.