Borg & Beck Clutch friction pads wanted for 1925 Kissel

[DBKissel]

I am looking to replace the friction pads on my 1925 Kissel Speedster.  Does anyone know where to find pads?  Also is there any kind of installation guide/ tool available?

the Clutch says Borg & Beck Type X Model 2 [from what I can make out].  The pads are apx 10 inch OD x apx 7 in ID and measure 0.106 inch thick [by dial caliper] on the 1st pad by the engine, and 0.120 inch thick on the next one. Both are split rings with about 1/2 inch in the gap.  I assume this is "normal'.  Any help is appreciated!

[JFranklin]

Ask at Fort Wayne Clutch they may have something suitable or can rebuild your part.

[DBKissel]

Thank you.  I reached out to Ft Wayne and they can make new ones, but don't seem to have the specs.  I am reluctant to proceed without knowing what the new nominal thickness should be.  So far I reached out to the AACA library to ask them to research it.  Any other ideas?

[PFitz]

They originally didn't have that gap. They were made from a continuous roll of woven asbestos, formed into a circle, and then the butt joint stapled closed with brass wire pressed down into the weave. It was a very common way of making clutch facings in the 1920's. You can still see some of the brass wire at the joint.

 

 And they would have been just under 10 inch OD so as not to jam inside a 10 inch flywheel/clutch housing. 

 

Franklin Series 9 and early Series 10 used the same floating friction disc dry clutch system.  Even with later models, the same facings were used when riveted to the disc.   

 

Pictures show a later riveted disc of the same size with the same brass-wired butt joint.

 

I sell non-asbestos replacements - pm me for details.

 

Paul

Edited September 5, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history)

[jan arnett (2)]

My moon has the same clutch and as was said there should not be a gap.  I may have one I took out.  I will check.

 

[PFitz]

Just got in a 23 disc in today to rebuild. Here's pix showing the brass wire staples  of  the butt joint of it's front and back friction facings. 

 

Starting sometime in the later 1920's, the friction facings were made without a butt joint. Most of the originals friction facings have been worn out and replaced over the years, so seeing ones with stapled butt joints is rare.

 

Paul

 

[DBKissel]

Thanks to all who posted.  I just found out from another Kissel owner that an off the shelf Raybestos RWC-1057P works fine.  The friction div of Raybestos was sold off, but I  went to Capitol Brake & Clutch in Sacramento CA [a distributor that supplied the other owner] who could supply an equivalent part [really cheap too!]  $15.35 ea.    10 Inch OD x 6 Inch ID x 0.125 " th.  [Yes the 6 inch will work where I currently have 7 inch ID.   

Good to know the stapling concept- now it makes sense in what I see.

[DBKissel]

Just a little more info for anyone else in this situation.  The discs I got were 10" OD X 6 " ID x 0.125 " th.  The OD was size on size and had to be sanded [I used a table top sander] and slowly rotated.  Knocked 1/32" off and they fit.  Next found out the 6 inch ID was only good on the flywheel side.  The "inner" pad needed to be 6 7/8" minimum.  I was able to use a Dremel circle attachment and a jig to hold the disc.  It worked.  Everything is together now and works great.  BTW if you try this wear a really good dust and chemical mask.