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Pete Phillips

1972 LeS. conv. for sale, Dallas, TX.

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Customer/friend of mine in Dallas is approaching her 81st birthday with deteriorating eyesight, and has decided to sell her 1972 LeSabre convertible. She has owned it since 1977 and I have been its primary caretaker/mechanic since 2005. Always garaged, everything works except the clock, and the A/C is going to need Freon for the first time in 12 years. No rust, Dallas car since new, engine was replaced in 1985 and probably less than 10,000 miles since then. Starts almost instantly, runs and drives perfectly. 350 2-barrel, power steering, power brakes, power windows, power seat, power door locks, AM/FM aftermarket radio but the original is in the trunk; top looks perfect, works smoothly, top boot is missing. 159,000 miles on the car, probably no more than 20,000 on the engine. Seats have incorrect upholstery on them, but in good shape; paint is about 7 years old; two tires are old, two are fairly new. Licensed and inspected, drive anywhere if you replace the two oldest tires. No cracks in the padded dash, which is amazing for a Texas car. She is asking $18,000 but $15,000 will buy it--just don't tell her I said that! Have lots of photos. Car is in Dallas, Texas. Check the production on '72 LeSabre convertibles--very rare car, only a little more than 2,000 were made.

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Posted (edited)

Pete, since this isn't your car, I hope it's okay 

to post an opinion on its price.

 

Despite this LeSabre's scarcity, I think her asking

price is far too optimistic.  I think the value of these

1971-75 GM B-body convertibles is actually going

down.  A couple of years ago I saw a really nice

1972 Pontiac convertible, with pretty low mileage,

bring $13,000 at a Carlisle auction--and that too was

a low-production model.  Myself, I bought a few years ago

a 1975 Pontiac Grand Ville convertible with a documented

8000 miles, a prior AACA senior award winner, for $20,000.

Grand Villes from 1975 are readily available, but I believe

that, unfortunately, the current market doesn't value

scarceness or commonness much differently for these models.

 

Maybe you can offer her some good advice on pricing.

With rather high mileage and a wrong interior, is this

an $8000 car?  With your expertise, she can certainly

rely on your opinions.

 

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

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I have to agree, the asking price is over twice what the car is worth, the 350/2 is a real killer for the car.  While these are rare, they are not nearly as sought after as the Centurions.  It would hurry a low mileage loaded pristine show car LeSabre convertible to bring $15K.  Looks like it make someone a great fun driver car though for more in the ballpark of Johns thoughts

 

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ya gotta wonder then, when will convertibles, say in this condition, begin bringing the prices of like convertibles of the 40's, 50, and even 60's?  ever?   or is it about time?

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"OVER TWICE what the car is worth"?? I have to disagree with that!

Yes, she has it priced high and won't get the asking price, but anyone who thinks the car is worth less than 9K in this condition is simply out of touch with current values, in my opinion.  One of the problems is that the lady gets pulled over and asked if the car is for sale every time she takes it out anywhere--every single time. That would tend to lead one to think that they can ask and get any price.

Pete Phillips

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1 hour ago, Pete Phillips said:

"OVER TWICE what the car is worth"?? I have to disagree with that!

Yes, she has it priced high and won't get the asking price, but anyone who thinks the car is worth less than 9K in this condition is simply out of touch with current values, in my opinion.  One of the problems is that the lady gets pulled over and asked if the car is for sale every time she takes it out anywhere--every single time. That would tend to lead one to think that they can ask and get any price.

Pete Phillips

 

Our (former) 1971 convertible had the 350ci, and was a very respectable driver. In my opinion, one doesn't "need" the big block for a nice driver, and will likely get more decent fuel mileage as well. My only concern at the time was the odd method in which the top mechanism folded, compared to 1970 and prior examples. It generally worked OK, but sometimes had to be lifted and coerced into the proper perspective. Other than that, ours was a fantastic road car, stunning in her red with white top and interior, and always smooth as silk. Our only repair was for a leaking rear seal on the hydramatic - $25 at the time, to pull the driveshaft, R&R the seal, reinstall the driveshaft, and add Dexron.

 

Someone will really enjoy this car.

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6 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

...the lady gets pulled over and asked if the car is for sale every time she takes it out anywhere--every single time.

That would tend to lead one to think that they can ask and get any price.

 

Now, when she gets inquiries, she can answer "Yes!"

It sounds like her best advertisement is simply driving

the car around town.  And then she can see whether

the offers are adequate for her, and what the inquirers

had in mind in terms of price.

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Several issues.  159,000 miles is 159,000 miles.  2. This car if marketed in a homogenous market such as Craigs List or ebay will compete against ALL convertibles from ALL brands.  Not too many buyers out there specifically looking for LeSabre convertibles, so a potential buyer will look at everything "apples to apples" and this one may not stack up to what $15K will buy.  $15K will buy a high point Centurion convertible, an Eldorado convertible, and the market really goes into the sixties.  The buyer is someone who wants that full size convertible experience and there is a surplus.  

 

I owned a 1972 Centurion convertible that had a transplanted 350-2 barrel and it was fine.   Put a set of road wheels on this one and it's a good $7000 -$8000 car.  Sorry, just my opinion.  

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7 hours ago, MrEarl said:

ya gotta wonder then, when will convertibles, say in this condition, begin bringing the prices of like convertibles of the 40's, 50, and even 60's?  ever?   or is it about time?

 

I think the values drop stops at 1960.  40's, 50's convertibles are forever iconic and hold their value much better than 1961 to 1976.   I think the market pricing is coming back to earth after being so high for so long.  

 

I have owned several convertibles from the 60's and 70's and pricing seems pretty flat, subject to inflation.  You have a few rare ones that yield higher prices like the sixties Eldorados, a couple of Imperials and muscle car convertibles are in a class by themselves.  But talking about full sizers, in "driver" to driver + condition, $7500 to $15,000 is all you need to spend.   Compare that to 1954 Buick convertibles in similar condition, you are looking at $24,000 (?) to $75,000 (excludes Skylark).  

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I probably follow the 71-72 big cars closer than most, having owned multiples of the era and have a firm finger on their values.  As mentioned mileage, incorrect interior plus what's there looks rough, obvious condition issues make the car worth what it's worth.  I have also driven the 350's in these, the 350/4 is adequate and does a good job the 350/2 especially in a car with a/c(another thing that is not working on the car) is anemic.   Mismatched tires, the rear bumper is badly tweaked, inside door panels look poor, that is just a few things from so so pictures.  Is the rear window glass or plastic?

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Never mind. Just forget about the ad and the car. I'll market it elsewhere.  Plenty of Mexicans with fresh paychecks around Dallas.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/22/2019 at 7:31 PM, Pete Phillips said:

Never mind. Just forget about the ad and the car. I'll market it elsewhere.  Plenty of Mexicans with fresh paychecks around Dallas.

Let us know how you do Pete.  I don't think any of the opinions here are in sincerely meant.

 

There is currently a beautiful '72 Centurion convert with about 81k for sale in Wisconsin for a long time unsold...recently marked down to $8,500, and still not selling.  455, nicer interior, half the miles.  Also at least three 71-76 Grand Ville / Bonneville converts and a couple Delta 88's wanting for buyers in this price range, in similar condition, in the Minneapolis Craigslist.

Edited by SBRMD (see edit history)

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12 hours ago, SBRMD said:

 

There is currently a beautiful '72 Centurion convert with about 81k for sale in Wisconsin for a long time unsold...recently marked down to $8,500, and still not selling.

That's crazy.  Where is this car advertised?

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3 hours ago, Y-JobFan said:

 

Yes I saw that - not bad.  But needs a subject to inspection due to placement of the exhaust tips, lack of liner for the top, and not a lot of information.  Filled with bondo?  Based on location I would run a magnet around it.   Stupid speakers cut into the rear side panels.   I suspect most of the locals have seen it (locals = within 150 miles). 

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Yes as with any car it needs going over but have owned and looked at enough of these to say this one appears promising.  These didn't have beautiful finished convertible top liners like later cars did, just a basic black liner.  As long as it's not filled with bondo it's a good buy for a Centurion.   Even has the rare passenger side rear view mirror.  I may see what more I can find out about it, it's appealing 

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On 8/22/2019 at 8:31 PM, Pete Phillips said:

Never mind. Just forget about the ad and the car. I'll market it elsewhere.  Plenty of Mexicans with fresh paychecks around Dallas.

 

How many times have I written that I would never offer a car for sales to this group" Lots.

 

I'm wondering if they were saying "Si, I like it" or "See, there goes that Buick I put the interior in again".

 

This is a tough crowd. (But predictable)

 

Bernie

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Posted (edited)

To my eye, the one thing I see is the lack of contrast simply due to the triple white color scheme.  Someone buying a car like this wants to be noticed and unfortunately white on white on white doesn't do it.  If it were mine, this is one car I would seriously consider for a factory correct color change.  Actually, even a black top would make a big difference...

Edited by EmTee (see edit history)

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3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

How many times have I written that I would never offer a car for sales to this group.

Never again for me either....

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Regarding the top liner on the Centurion, the scissor tops from GM featured a "bladder" that was a liner like piece that went from the center bow (not from the header), expanded to cover the area behind the rear windows and to which the glass rear window was glued. It had drain tubes attached to the lower corners next to the window. Water drained off the exterior top fabric into these bladder/window drains and exited though the tubes out vents in the rocker panels. These bladders often showed wear due to being pinched when the top was lowered. When tops were replaced they were cut back to ease in the install of the new top I presume. I have owned many of these cars and this "cut off" appearance of the bladder is not uncommon. These modifications make for a "dilapidated" look on the inside and often cause water to drain inside the quarters rather than through the drains. A new bladder would have to installed. That would require the detachment of the rear part of the top fabric, pulling it forward to install the new bladder and re-gluing the window to the new bladder. Basic conclusion though is this top has been replaced. No surprise there.

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