Pontiac Fiero questions

[60FlatTop]

I have always been noted for poor taste by my more traditional friends. My brother threw a dirt ball into my eye when I was a kid and I use that eye for beholding.

 

Twice I have been severely tempted by these.

 

And it sin't over yet.

[padgett]

a) bet you'd like a Spohn.

b) Fiero has dual ashtrays (but only one lighter).

[88GT]

I'm an Engineer with Degrees in Mechanical and Electronics. When the Fiero was being developed and produced, I was fascinated, but I had 3-young kids and a 2-passenger sports car was not possible. Now I'm a bit older, and the President of the New England Fiero Association, and own 3 '88 Fieros, 2 T-Tops and a convertible. All three have engine upgrades. It is an amazing car!

 

I have NEVER heard of a Fiero breaking in half. In fact, the Fiero came in 2nd only to the Volvo for safety, and is the only car ever to get a 5-star safety rating with out air bags. The Fiero was/is one of the strongest cars ever made.

 

People say the '88 suspension was designed by lotus, but it wasn't. The entire Fiero was actually designed outside of Pontiac. And the '88 model year got a major upgrade. The '84 - '87 Fieros were built on a Chevette suspension with a Citation drive train in the back. You need to appreciate that the Fiero was not popular at GM, and had a shoe-string budget, but towards the end, after a major upgrade for the '88 model year, the Fiero was out performing the Corvette! Sports car magazines were comparing the Fiero to Lotus, Porsche and Ferrari. As Hulki Aldikacti (the "father" of the Fiero) said at our 25th anniversary convention, when asked about the Fiero and Corvette on the GM proving grounds... "Ya, we kicked its ass!". But, as he noted, that was the kiss of death for the Fiero... don't mess with the All-American Dream Car!

 

As for fires, it was only in the '84 model year and it was a problem acquired from the Citation. On a rare occasion, the coolant would drip onto the exhaust manifold which would then catch fire. Its my understanding that there were only 150 cases of these fires, and the problem was resolved, but keep in mind that Chevy did not like the Fiero and would run any little problem up the flag pole!

 

Over heating can be a problem with the Fiero. The problem stems from the mid engine being in back of the passengers and the radiator up front. The problem comes because an air bubble gets stuck in the coolant lines. The solution is to jack the back of the car way up, and fill the coolant from the thermostat housing on the engine. This gets the bubble out and the car will run cool.

 

If you have any other Fiero Questions, feel free to ask!  Ray Paulk

[mike6024]

Affordable for the youth as a project.

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Here is one for sale.  It's been modified.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/d/surprise-1987-fiero-gt-custom/6941103842.html

[coachJC]

I don't own any Fieros but I have a friend who has 3 an 84 he bought brand new, an 86 and an 88 Formula, he also owns a 29 Model A. At work we have lots of conversation about cars old and new, what he has going on with his cars and me about mine. When interesting things come up on on the AACA Forum or the MTFCA forum I send him links and when interesting thing come up on the Pennock's Fiero forum he sends them off to me.

 

As an outside observer of the Fiero group it is interesting for me to see how that group has really been growing with how active that Forum is and how they also use other social media (What'sApp) group as means of communication and how they plan events and group tours they put on in our area. They also seem to really span the age levels from teenagers (guys and girls), to the guys in their 60s who bought them when they first came out in the mid 80's.

 

They had a get together this year at the the GM Nationals at Carlisle where over 70 Fiero's showed up and my guess is almost everyone drove, including one from New Mexico. There are aftermarket sites where they can buy all kids of parts they require and lots of different builds on the forum with all the info you want to find about keeping them close to factory to some pretty wild engine swaps. A link to this post was posted on their forum and it was interesting enough for a few of them to sign up and help dispel some of the myths that have been created over the years about this car.

 

There is always lots a talk on this forum about the cost of cars, age of owners, getting youth involved, and participation in everts, well here is a group that seems to be doing OK in all of those categories. It is not all doom and gloom out there as some seem to make it appear.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by coachJC (see edit history)

[R Walling]

 I am having trouble with my 84 Fuel Injection.

 It ran well when I parked it over the winter and would not start in the spring.

 It seems that there are few people that know how to diagnose the problems with the FI.

 I thought it might be the mice but I see no evidence of that.

 I think that is in a bad connection in the wiring harness from the ECM to the injector.

 Trying to follow the wiring to locate an open circuit is a night mare in the confined space of the engine compartment.

 Roger.

 

[David Hambleton]

Here's the fleet coachJC refers to; the Model A is more house-appropriate and makes the Fieros feel like race cars. 😁

 

[60FlatTop]

I mentioned in an earlier post that I would buy another one. I don't remember why I sold my 4.3 but the guy who bought it called me up a year or so later an asked if I had any cars for sale. I sold him an XJ6 Jaguar.

 

One entertaining part of the ongoing story of these cars; you hear all the comments about mixing parts for the bins to make a second rate, problematic car. Then you scroll on to another topic where a glowing description of the mix of parts used in a disc brake conversion to make the owner's car safer. Gotta love it.

 

That Chevette the front suspension originated around 1964 at Opel, moved to Argentina in the late '60's, and was hustled to the US in reaction to the first "oil crisis". That was when Buick knee jerked a bunch of the 215-8 and V6 rights back from British Leyland.

 

Bernie

[padgett]

Thought Rover still had the Aluminum V8 and Buick bought the 231/3.8/3800 back from AMC and vastly improved it (added a balance shaft and created the "even-fire" offset crank that Mercedes copied in the M112 engine.

 

The '84 Iron Duke had the "throttle body injection" of which the less said the better however I do have an OTC 2000 with the "Pathfinder" cartridge for diagnosing. They used the original (slow) computer command control (CCC) and is easy to reprogram with Moates gear.

 

ps "solution is to jack the back of the car way up" - my driveway has a 15 degree slope which works very well. On ramps a car is level. The really phun job is to replace the fuel pump - the gas tank is in the console.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by padgett (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

21 hours ago, David Hambleton said:

Here's the fleet coachJC refers to; the Model A is more house-appropriate

 

If the 15 light window effect is done with a plastic grid the Fiero's are OK.

[David Hambleton]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

If the 15 light window effect is done with a plastic grid the Fiero's are OK.

Well we're partially ok then, lol!  The upstairs and sunroom windows are vinyl replacements.  😀

[TerryB]

Three pages of discussion on a 1980s automobile, this is great!

[DAVES89]

We can do the Reatta next!

[Hans1]

if you start a seperate thread,  you may already know the convertibles were leakin lenas, said Kukla Fran & Olie. 

[padgett]

I have a Haartz top on mine, it does not leak even in a car wash.

[Frank DuVal]

On 8/21/2019 at 4:07 PM, 60FlatTop said:

bunch of the 215-8 and V6 rights back from British Leyland.

 

Padgett is right, Buick only bought the V-6 engine rights AND tooling back from AMC. They never went back to the aluminum V-8 design of the 60s. Late 70s Buicks had either the  231 V-6 or the cast iron 350 until they got the GM family engines (260, 301, 305, 307, etc.)

 

I took a tour of the Buick Flint engine plant in 1988 and they told the story of blowing the dirt out of the plant floor holes to bolt the V-6 tooling right back in the exact same spot it was in when it left in 1967!

 

For mid 80s troubleshooting, get a Snap ON Red Brick, aka MT2500. Still a lot of them on Ebay for sale. Usually comes with Domestic Primary Cartridge and Domestic Troubleshooter Cartridge. Even works for that weird 1995 OBD 1.5 that Park Avenues and some Camaros use.

[padgett]

Fun thing about the Aluminum V8 was that it was used in Australia before Rover etc (also Morgan +8 and the Triumph TR8 - shape of things to come) and Jack Brabham (Repco) used one to win the Formula ! world championship in 1966

[Marty Roth]

On 8/22/2019 at 8:09 PM, Hans1 said:

if you start a seperate thread,  you may already know the convertibles were leakin lenas, said Kukla Fran & Olie. 

 

Both my '41 and '54 Caddys have Haartz tops,

and neither of them leak !

[60FlatTop]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:09 PM, Hans1 said:

if you start a seperate thread,  you may already know the convertibles were leakin lenas, said Kukla Fran & Olie. 

 

Years ago I had a '62 Buick Electra and removed the roof. It was very presentable even with the top off.

I never got a picture of it without the roof back in the chemical film days.

One day there was a local car show in town and a few droplets in the air. I stood in the garage doorway thinking about it. Then aw, what the heck. Off I went completely open, Olefin exposed.

I got to the show and the rain came with a vengeance. So I got into a friend's '57 Ford cloth top convert.

 

It didn't make much difference..

[padgett]

One of the fun things about my '01 Merc retractible is that if it rains on the console, it won't shift. Trust the Germans to build a convertible that can't get wet.

[zmcdonal]

Fun little cars and actually very safe for their time. 

[arcticbuicks]

My mom had a red 2M4 fiero new and then my sister had it years .....then I bought a white one new .......and later a 1988 GT V6 ......they were all excellent and fun and lasted very well.had a few recalls for brakes ,fire prevention solution ,emergency brakes,one had complete new engine recall as for oil dipstick too long and showed full oil with only 2 quarts ,they were great heaters and comfy for 2 .....the 4 cylinder engine was similar to citation but in fact different the standard trans was fiero only and I think isuzu .only complaint we had was the headlight motors quit often 

[PONTIAC1953]

On 8/19/2019 at 9:37 PM, 60FlatTop said:

I have always been noted for poor taste by my more traditional friends. My brother threw a dirt ball into my eye when I was a kid and I use that eye for beholding.

 

Twice I have been severely tempted by these.

 

And it sin't over yet.

I met country singer Roy Clark one night in Vinita, Ok turnpike gas station, I was driving truck, and wanted a cold drink, he was standing at the gas pump, filling his Zimmer Fiero that him and his wife were driving in. his Zimmer was red.

[TAKerry]

Have to give my 2c since its been brought back, my sister in law bought a new in '84. She used it to commute a hundred miles or so each day. Which is good I suppose as they were initially meant to be a commuter car. After 150k or so miles she had to have the motor rebuilt. This happened about every 50k after that until she finally traded on a toyota. My wife bought a new on in '85. It was a base model, 5 sp. no a/c. The best we could afford as we were just preparing for our wedding. Car ran great. Had it for about 4 years then traded on a civic. I would love to have a Indy pace car in my garage, I also like the styling of the GT's. My experience with it as a new car was that it was decent and reliable. Its easy to pick apart any used car.

[8E45E]

On 8/20/2019 at 4:10 PM, 88GT said:

People say the '88 suspension was designed by lotus, but it wasn't. The entire Fiero was actually designed outside of Pontiac. And the '88 model year got a major upgrade. The '84 - '87 Fieros were built on a Chevette suspension with a Citation drive train in the back. You need to appreciate that the Fiero was not popular at GM, and had a shoe-string budget, but towards the end, after a major upgrade for the '88 model year, the Fiero was out performing the Corvette! Sports car magazines were comparing the Fiero to Lotus, Porsche and Ferrari. As Hulki Aldikacti (the "father" of the Fiero) said at our 25th anniversary convention, when asked about the Fiero and Corvette on the GM proving grounds... "Ya, we kicked its ass!". But, as he noted, that was the kiss of death for the Fiero... don't mess with the All-American Dream Car!

That is the backbone of GM's  demise of being a leader and world class innovator with a huge drop in market share as its ultimate "reward".  In the 1980's GM Corporate's protective momma mindset stuck their noses too much into each division's personal business and when Chevrolet Motor Division complained to momma that brother Pontiac had a better car that outperformed its own Corvette, she stepped in and shut the Fiero project down, leaving a lot of owners and enthusiasts of the marque mad and confused.  Two decades prior to that, in the 1960's Chevrolet Motor Division would have looked at what PMD did as a challenge and worked on improving the Covette to one-up Pontiac with GM Corporate's full approval back then.  It that mindset was allowed to continue into the 1980's, GM would still be the leader of the pack, and Pontiac might still be with us today.

 

Craig  

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

And I believe the "momma" is more accurate than indicated. I do nor think "Mary" is a car fan.

 

  Ben

[GrumpyJim]

On 8/18/2019 at 7:45 PM, Hans1 said:

The Mill and Drill for the space frame was very interesting to watch. After Mill and drill, many of the  "pads" that had been machined were of varying thicknesses. 

This was the method of equalizing the finished frame for fitting body and other components.

/////////////////

A side light from the   Fiero Plant floor: personal experience and observation.

When attending my first meeting, and walking in a wide walkway to attend a meeting and view line operations, I was showered with sparks from a welder some 45 feet away and behind me at a 45 degree angle.   Wearing wool slacks and a cotton dress shirt I was a mass of holes on my left and back side.

 

Now  being aware of the possibility of needing more clothing on subsequent visits I observed  the welder from a distance .  The operator  seemed to note single walkers about to pass by, and rotated standing position and repositioning the spot welding gun, would appear to shower the single person with sparks.

there were some chuckles about it in the meeting, but ......................

//////////////////////////

At Cadillac, we had a Superintendent bent upon starting his own  company to install larger engines in the Fiero, nothing came of it that I know of.................Differential issues were an issue, along with others.

 

Actually. The mill and drill process was lauded at the time and used in several vehicles after the Fiero Introduction. The first generation GMT199 (U) vans ( Lumina-Transport-Silhouette) as well as the Saturn S-series. I have an 86 GT  I purchased from the original owner. It had sat in her garage for twenty years. I had all the calipers, pads and rotors replaced in order to make it road worthy. That was 8 years ago and it has been a trouble free car ever since. You have to remember. These were built to be a sporty economy car.  Hence the attrition rate of these cars. 

[Buick35]

I kind of like the looks of a Pontiac Solstice but I read somewhere to replace the battery you had to remove some of the fender.That turned me off,that and the headlights  could look better I think.

[TAKerry]

2 hours ago, Buick35 said:

I kind of like the looks of a Pontiac Solstice but I read somewhere to replace the battery you had to remove some of the fender.That turned me off,that and the headlights  could look better I think.

Im a die hard Pontiac guy, but I think the Saturn version had better styling than the Solstice. 

[39BuickEight]

1 hour ago, TAKerry said:

Im a die hard Pontiac guy, but I think the Saturn version had better styling than the Solstice. 

I agree that the Saturn roadster looks better than the Solstice roadster.  That said, I think the Solstice Coupe is the best looking car GM has made in 50 years, which is why I bought one.

 

[arcticbuicks]

too bad the solstice just never had much of a performance engine or anything special

[39BuickEight]

4 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

too bad the solstice just never had much of a performance engine or anything special

Mine has the GMPP 2.0 and makes 290hp/320 lb ft at barely 3000 lbs.  Sure it’s not the typical V8 that we think of in terms of American sports cars, but it scoots along and handles like it’s on rails.  They are odd cars that many people forget about until someone mentions them.

[arcticbuicks]

Fiero is one of the only cars i can think of that had the use of standard pre strut front suspension in the front [coil spring with control arm and standard shocks] ......but with full strut rear suspension........a odd combination ........i remember the cooling system ....a real pain to refill too.......i once found it easier to back down into a steep ditch to top up

[8E45E]

9 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

They are odd cars that many people forget about until someone mentions them.

They show up with regularity at our local Friday night A&W Cruises during the summer months.  Therefore, they'll never be considered 'rare', as in 'few survivors'.

 

Craig

[39BuickEight]

28 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

They show up with regularity at our local Friday night A&W Cruises during the summer months.  Therefore, they'll never be considered 'rare', as in 'few survivors'.

 

Craig

Yeah, they made over 100,000 combined (65/35 ish) Solstice/Sky convertibles, so they certainly won’t ever be considered “rare.” 

[JFranklin]

I loved my 1985 GT with The stereo speakers in the seat backs. Handeling was just as I liked, especially on the Oregon Cascade mountain roads

[8E45E]

13 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

Yeah, they made over 100,000 combined (65/35 ish) Solstice/Sky convertibles, so they certainly won’t ever be considered “rare.” 

Do those figures also include the Opel GT/Speedster, Vauxhall VX220, and the Daewoo G2X?

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

14 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

I agree that the Saturn roadster looks better than the Solstice roadster.  That said, I think the Solstice Coupe is the best looking car GM has made in 50 years, which is why I bought one.

 

I really like the coupes. I dont think they made too many of those, so if there is a rare solstice thats the one. I like the solstice, but I prefer the front end of the Satun a bit better. But either one is ok in my book ("and I have a book").My son was thinking about picking one up for a daily driver to keep the load off of his GTO a  bit.

[39BuickEight]

5 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Do those figures also include the Opel GT/Speedster, Vauxhall VX220, and the Daewoo G2X?

 

Craig

No, just the Pontiacs and Saturns.