Hudsy Wudsy Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 I just came across a reference to Fieros on a current thread. I had already forgotten about the marque until now. I never saw a lot of Fieros, even when new, but I recall vividly seeing two that were broken in two behind the driver's seat. I'm curious to know, not that it's very important, if this was a well known flaw and ,thus, why they disappeared. Anyone have any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Junk out of the gate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54vicky Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 I do not remember the year but there was a problem with them catching fire.they were dogs until the 6 came along 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Cardinal Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 I had an 88 Fiero Formula; 2.8L V6, 5 speed MT. Loved it! Lotus suspension design was incorporated into the 1988 model year; last year of the car. Handled GREAT; fun autocross car! I don't know anything about them "breaking" behind the seats. @54vicky: yes, the "Iron Duke" 4 cylinder cars were mundane performers, but Pontiac had to design and market the car as a low-cost "commuter" to get corporate approval for the program. They could not get program approval for a mid-engine sports car...look how long it took for THAT to happen. Lots of stories about overheating and fires.Not sure what the cause was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) I bought a bright blue '87 Fiero in 1988 that was a blast to drive with the 5 speed. An 18 year old kid with a beat up Fiero was dying of cancer in Minnesota so a couple of dozen other Fiero guys went up there from all over the US and worked 24 hours straight to restore his so he could take it for one last drive before he died. Have a Kleenex handy at the end of this 6 minute video.... Edited August 18, 2019 by Lebowski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Most of the overheating issues were with the v6 model from what I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 hours ago, TerryB said: Most of the overheating issues were with the v6 model from what I remember. no, i have owned 2 pontiac fiero gt with the 2.8 V6, never a overheating problem, the cause of fires in fieros was owners too lazy to check oil level or engine coolant level, engine ends up getting low on oil, engine overheats, throws a connecting rod through the block, hot exhaust manifold catches the oil on fire. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 hours ago, pontiac1953 said: no, i have owned 2 pontiac fiero gt with the 2.8 V6, never a overheating problem, the cause of fires in fieros was owners too lazy to check oil level or engine coolant level, engine ends up getting low on oil, engine overheats, throws a connecting rod through the block, hot exhaust manifold catches the oil on fire. One of the engineers I worked with was single and anal when it came to cars and how they run. He hooked up thermal sensors to his v6 and found cooling was not as good as it should be. He made his own fan system to improve cooling in the engine compartment. As you mentioned it was up to the owner to make sure all oils and cooling were maintained, if they were not there was trouble. My friend maintained his and in fact still owns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 While my 84 Fiero didn't actually break in half, it was in two pieces during reconstruction of my toy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Having had a gaggle of them can say it was easy to discourage tailgaters by just rocking the steering. One/both rear tires would leave the ground and they would back off. The TBI 4 cyl (Iron Duke) is best forgotten but the Chev 2.8 (3.4) V6 has the most beautiful car sound imaginable. Engine swaps (3.4 TDC, L67, Archie V8s) are common. Never had an overheating problem but made sure the fan relays worked, used a 180F thermostat, and brought be fans in by 185. Lose a relay and it will overheat. Quickly. Roof vent kept cool when parked and AC was very effective. Is also a very comfortable car to drive even with my screwy position. Was actually looking for another Fiero when I discovered Reattae. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Like many cars, the only people who say good things about them are the people who owned one. I wish I still had mine and my nephew has two. Mine had an engine conversion to an early 1990's 4.3 V6 Chevy truck engine. I would buy another. Bernie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I saw one at a car show a long time ago with a 500 cu. in. Caddy engine in it. I wish I had taken a pic of it but this was before cell phones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 16 hours ago, Hudsy Wudsy said: why they disappeared. Anyone have any thoughts? The 1988 got Lotus front suspension and that gave a real enhancement over the Opel Kadet system. The car was becoming a direct competitor to Corvette sales. GM vaporized it. This discussion has already got me into my old Fiero pictures and onto the Fiero site: http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi Not a safe place for a weak mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichill Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Mine was a V-6 and I loved it. I had no issues with overheating living in Georgia and driv9ng it to Florida nearly e very weekend. Great unique car in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPPI Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) This thread is a perfect example of how urban legends and car myths are created over decades, and the Fiero is one of those popular misunderstood cars that fall into that category. While I'm not a Fiero Ambassador and don't want to spends hours defending the car or its creators, but because I'm familiar with the Fiero and other mid-engine sports cars since the 1980's I do feel obligated to briefly point out some common misperceptions. I will respond directly to the comments first then elaborate on the car in general at the end... Quote Junk out of the gate There were many cars in the 80's that were junk out of the gate by many manufacturers, but the Fiero isn't one of them when you understand the specifics. Quote I do not remember the year but there was a problem with them catching fire The majority of engine fires were due to defective connecting rods in the 1984 four cylinder models. During production the defective rods were sent back to the foundry twice, yet some still made it into production. If the owner neglected oil changes that defective rod could fail and eject through the oil pan or block, resulting in oil onto the hot exhaust system and sometimes catching on fire. The other isolated fire cases that were not related to the 1984 defective rods were the same as any other car fire you see today, owner neglect and stupidity (dry leaves on engine, oil leaks, parking a low clearance sports car on dry grass, and so on). The issue that most people overlook is you can't give the general public an affordable mid-engine sports car and expect them the follow the same safety rules and maintenance as an exotic car owner does. Quote they were dogs until the 6 came along Even with the 2.8 L44 V6 with 140 HP and 180 TQ which was decent NA specs at the time, because the car was so heavy it was still sightly under powered. But comparing apples to apples, the majority of 80's cars were also under powered. Look at the Delorean for example with its similar 2.8 V6 powerplant, yet the Fiero design was superior compared to the Delorean's stainless steel clad/veneer panels on a fiberglass body, not to mention the fit/finish, safety, and reliability factor... but this is not a Delorean vs Fiero thread. Quote Lotus suspension design was incorporated into the 1988 model year; last year of the car. Handled GREAT... Pontiac had to design and market the car as a low-cost "commuter" to get corporate approval for the program. They could not get program approval for a mid-engine sports car The Lotus story is a myth, but you are correct on your second statement... Chief designer Hulki Aldikacti wanted to build a rival to the Corvette but the GM Execs never wanted it. His concept had to be sold as a mass produced commuter. So what most people don't know is they designed the important structure and foundation correctly out of the gate, then to stay within budget constraints they used off the shelf suspension components (Chevette front suspension and Citation front cradle reversed and modified for the rear). This is often used as a punch line by those who don't understand the Fiero, but what is funny about that is many auto manufacturers around the world used off the shelf parts with their cars. So the Fiero budget suspension was 1984 to 1987, then GM gave them the green light to spend about $30 million dollars ($60 million is today's money) on the 1988 model year redesigning the entire suspension giving it the true sports car suspension it deserved and was supposed to have in 1984. That consisted of a coil over front and tri-link rear similar to a Porsche. Since 1988 is the final year for the Fiero its the only one with that completely different suspension, that is why they are more desirable and worth more than the 1984-87 years. Quote Most of the overheating issues were with the v6 model from what I remember. Generally speaking there were no design flaws to contribute to overheating. Just like any enthusiast does to any hobby car, there is always room for improvement on the cooling, so what many Fiero owners do is take out the 195 stat and and install a 180 stat with a 210 fan switch so the fans come on earlier than factory. Another big mistake that leads to overheating is when individuals or garages change the coolant using traditional front-engine methods by using the radiator cap in the front of the vehicle, where actually you have to have the vehicle facing nose down using the coolant cap on top of the engine where the push-in thermostat is, because that is the high point and ensures there is no air is the system. There were a few cases were the cooling fan was backwards, but 99% of overheating cases were owner neglect, or general auto repair garages unqualified to work on mid-engine sports car, or by denting the coolant tubes under the car when putting it on a lift. (same as exotic mid-engine sports cars) A few other tidbits to note... The Fiero design had many pioneering greats including a space-frame chassis, impact resistant Enduraflex panels and laser-guided body panel alignment. The super strong space-frame chassis consists of 275 pieces of steel held together with 4300 welds weighing 700 pounds. The space-frame went through a 2.5-story Gilman mill-and-drill machine where it’s chassis was gauged at the tops and leading edges of both doors and centered cross-car, then drilled with 39 mounting points for the external body panels. This precision allowed panels to be fitted within 0.50mm, the process is a worldwide industry first. Following the mill-and-drill procedure, the frame was dipped into an electronically charged primer called cathodic elpo uniprime. After dipping, the Fiero chassis was never drilled or pierced again. The exterior body panels are not for safety and weigh only 175 pounds, yet total vehicle weight of a fully loaded 1988 GT with a full tank of gas with it driver is a whopping 3000 pounds. Exterior panels are one of the last things installed during assembly. Three types of Enduraflex body panels were used on the exterior: RRIM (fiberglass reinforced reaction injection molding), SMC (sheet molding compound) and TPO (thermoplastic olefin). All the exterior body panels were painted off the car as a set in proper relationship to each other to ensure paint consistency. Unlike most vehicles it is a running, driving, safe automobile without its outer skin. NHTSA crash tests gave the Fiero a 5-STAR frontal and side impact rating. As of 2005 it was the safest domestic car ever tested without an airbag, had one of the highest ratings ever recorded in GM barrier safety tests, and it was the only American car that passed strict Swedish rollover tests. With its space-frame construction, multiple crumple zones and side impact beams its basically a steel-caged tank. Like the original poster pointed out it does have a weakness, if T-Boned hard from the side at the rear, the rear section can detach from the occupant cage, but what automobile doesn't have a vulnerable spot in a world of unpredictable physics, most antique and classic cars are death traps by comparison. The team had big plans for the Fiero, prototypes were built with light weight aluminum space frames, turbo V6 aluminum engines were tested and V8 engines were on the drawing boards. That resulted in quicker performance than the Corvette with better handling and safety, at almost half the price. If the Fiero had a very bright future, why did GM stop producing it? Several reasons... 1) When the Fiero evolved into a true mid-engine sports car by 1988 as originally envisioned by Hulki with turbo V6 and V8 engines in the near future, the Corvette was on life support with dwindling sales. The GM Execs could not allow the Fiero to outperform its flagship sports car for almost half the cost. 2) Bad media press from the 1984 four-cylinder engine fires killed its reputation. 3) Insurance skyrocketed in the late 1980's on 2-seat automobiles. Even though GM spent $300 million ($600 million in todays money) to produce the Fiero, they forcasted a potential loss of $20 million between 1989 and 1995, thus claiming there was no future market for it and wanted to focus on the Corvette, Firebird and Camaro. The Fiero made a profit every year it was sold and was a success, its construction was revolutionary and it was the only mid-engined production sports car ever built by an American manufacturer until the recent FordGT came along. Carroll Shelby said "the Fiero is the ultimate modern day hot rod" because with its mid-engine layout, strong space-frame construction, and affordability. Some of the popular engine conversions for the Fiero include Chevrolet small block, Cadillac V8, and Buick 3800 Supercharged V6. With these engines it can produce 12 to 13 second quarter mile times and tear up a road course. The Fiero is one-of-a-kind and an affordable alternative to the expensive mid-engine sports cars. Edited August 19, 2019 by PVPPI errors (see edit history) 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I never heard of one breaking in half. Catching on fire, yes. Mine was GT (V6) with a ground effects kit an low profile Wheels & Tires' Lots of fun to drive. Felt like an air conditoned Go Cart. When I took it to the Dupont Registry Cars & Coffee they would alwys direct me to park in the Ferrari area. Poor parking guy didn;t know a Pontiac from a Ferrari/ontiac from a Ferrari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPPI Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 When I took it to the Dupont Registry Cars & Coffee they would alwys direct me to park in the Ferrari area. Poor parking guy didn;t know a Pontiac from a Ferrari That doesn't surprise me, plenty of car enthusiasts not knowledgeable about certain cars, and those two cars being from the same era and both being a mid-engine sports car with similar lines and proportions. Here is a GT parked next to a 308, as you can see they are approximately the same size and wheelbase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I bought a new 4-cylinder automatic in 1986 and used it as a daily driver (including on vacations) for 5 years. It may not have been a speed demon but it got good mileage and had enough zip to accelerate and keep up with interstate traffic. It didn't break in half and it didn't catch fire - I was conscientious about changing oil and coolant and keeping them filled. It was the best handling car I've ever driven on snow and ice - good weight distribution, not overpowered, and light enough that it didn't bog down. It was still running great when I traded it, and I wish I hadn't. The only reason I did is because I was getting old enough to have difficulty with a low-slung car - I used to joke I had to step up to get out of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Excellent discussion on a car from the 1980s era and lots of new information for me! Saw one for sale recently for $1500, pretty sure it was a 4 cyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 My neighbors daughter used hers to move all her personal stuff and a large dog to Florida from Illinois in the 90’s and then a month later when she realized how much she missed her Mother she moved it all back. I still marvel when I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said: My neighbors daughter used hers to move all her personal stuff and a large dog to Florida from Illinois in the 90’s and then a month later when she realized how much she missed her Mother she moved it all back. I still marvel when I think about it. Ours had a luggage rack on the trunk lid. Is it still a trunk if that's where the engine is? Anyway, when my wife and I took it on vacation, we packed on the luggage rack, in the trunk, and on the spare tire under the "hood". We couldn't take everything we owned but we had room for what we needed plus what we acquired along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPPI Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) Quote Ours had a luggage rack on the trunk lid. Is it still a trunk if that's where the engine is? Anyway, when my wife and I took it on vacation, we packed on the luggage rack, in the trunk, and on the spare tire under the "hood". We couldn't take everything we owned but we had room for what we needed plus what we acquired along the way. Funny that you would bring that up, when I had my Fiero's about 20 years ago our washing machine broke so I took my wife to her mothers house to do the laundry. It was such a nice day I wanted to take the Fiero, but she said "you will never get all that laundry into the Fiero" and I accepted her challenge. I still have a photo of everything I fit into the trunk compartment that day, below is that photo and another photo showing what an empty Fiero trunk looks like, its amazing what you can fit in there! Edited August 18, 2019 by PVPPI (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 44 minutes ago, PVPPI said: Funny that you would bring that up, when I had my Fiero's about 20 years ago our washing machine broke so I took my wife to her mothers house to do the laundry. It was such a nice day I wanted to take the Fiero, but she said "you will never get all that laundry into the Fiero" and I accepted her challenge. I still have a photo of everything I fit into the trunk compartment that day, below is that photo and another photo showing what an empty Fiero trunk looks like, its amazing what you can fit in there! And you didn't even need the special Fiero fitted luggage the made use of every available cubic inch of storage space in the car! 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPPI Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 That luggage kit is slick, I never knew that existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, PVPPI said: Funny that you would bring that up, when I had my Fiero's about 20 years ago our washing machine broke so I took my wife to her mothers house to do the laundry. It was such a nice day I wanted to take the Fiero, but she said "you will never get all that laundry into the Fiero" and I accepted her challenge. I still have a photo of everything I fit into the trunk compartment that day, below is that photo and another photo showing what an empty Fiero trunk looks like, its amazing what you can fit in there! I thought you were going to say you hauled your washing machine in the Fiero - now that would have been impressive! The spare tire was a skinny temporary one - IIRC, a regular tire wouldn't fit in the same space under the hood but would fit upright in the deep trunk. So you were supposed to haul the flat there until you could get it fixed and put back on. Fortunately we never got a flat while on vacation - we would have been in trouble with the trunk full of other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans1 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 The Mill and Drill for the space frame was very interesting to watch. After Mill and drill, many of the "pads" that had been machined were of varying thicknesses. This was the method of equalizing the finished frame for fitting body and other components. ///////////////// A side light from the Fiero Plant floor: personal experience and observation. When attending my first meeting, and walking in a wide walkway to attend a meeting and view line operations, I was showered with sparks from a welder some 45 feet away and behind me at a 45 degree angle. Wearing wool slacks and a cotton dress shirt I was a mass of holes on my left and back side. Now being aware of the possibility of needing more clothing on subsequent visits I observed the welder from a distance . The operator seemed to note single walkers about to pass by, and rotated standing position and repositioning the spot welding gun, would appear to shower the single person with sparks. there were some chuckles about it in the meeting, but ...................... ////////////////////////// At Cadillac, we had a Superintendent bent upon starting his own company to install larger engines in the Fiero, nothing came of it that I know of.................Differential issues were an issue, along with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPPI Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Hans1 said: The Mill and Drill for the space frame was very interesting to watch. After Mill and drill, many of the "pads" that had been machined were of varying thicknesses. This was the method of equalizing the finished frame for fitting body and other components. ///////////////// A side light from the Fiero Plant floor: personal experience and observation. When attending my first meeting, and walking in a wide walkway to attend a meeting and view line operations, I was showered with sparks from a welder some 45 feet away and behind me at a 45 degree angle. Wearing wool slacks and a cotton dress shirt I was a mass of holes on my left and back side. Now being aware of the possibility of needing more clothing on subsequent visits I observed the welder from a distance . The operator seemed to note single walkers about to pass by, and rotated standing position and repositioning the spot welding gun, would appear to shower the single person with sparks. there were some chuckles about it in the meeting, but ...................... ////////////////////////// At Cadillac, we had a Superintendent bent upon starting his own company to install larger engines in the Fiero, nothing came of it that I know of.................Differential issues were an issue, along with others. Great story, thanks for sharing, I was never there but have talked to people like yourself who were. When I went to tech school in the early mid 80's we had to learn every inch of that Fiero, ugh. From what I gather there was a lot of pride at that factory (Fiero means Proud) despite the bad media press. Just like anything else in life when you play the "what if game" things might have been different for the Fiero had there never been the early 4-cylinder engine fires, and or if Back To The Future used the Fiero instead of a Delorean, lol. Your Cadillac guy back in the day was probably referring to the Cadillac 4.9 V8 which is a very popular engine swap over the last two decades, the Cadillac Northstar V8 is a less common engine swap, with the Chevy V8 and Buick 3800 SC being the most popular. Edited August 19, 2019 by PVPPI (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Ok the truth is that like a Trabant a burning Fiero is toxic. That said what happened was that Pontiac speced three quarts of oil for the '84 and many Americans are used to running two quarts low. Coupled with weak connecting rods (why most attempts to add a turbo failed), if the crank seized often a rod would break and exit the side of the block usually on the firewall side. This would dump hot oil on the even hotter catalytic converter and hot starter terminals & ignition often occurred. Pontiac issued a recall which involved a sticker for the owner's manual, various shields/drains over hot things, a longer oil filter (PF 52 instead of PF47), and a remarked dipstick for four quarts of dino. No internal parts were touched. Other than having the recall done I had it for several years before giving it to my son. Lady ran a red light and exit Fiero. After I had several others until in 2001 when I was looking for another Fiero I found an '88 Reatta with low miles and excellent condition and much more space for less money. Even had a touchscreen in the dash. I still have it. Keep in mind that in the '80s, All GM divisions (except Oldsmobile - they got the Bravada instead) had halo 2-seaters: Allante, Corvette, Fiero, & Reatta. Sad part is that now GM only has three two-door cars and all start with a "C". Personally find it interesting how the eras change used to be that a four door cost more than a two door. Latest is when I bought my Jeep in '12 - nobody wanted a SUV - miniVans were the rage) so I got about 30% off MSRP in rebates, capture discounts, and magic since no-one wanted a Grand Cherokee (DOHC-6, 5 speed, 4 wheel disks, IFS/IRS, front and rear sway bars...and a factory towing package). Was only a few Benjamins more than a year old with 20k miles. Also has a lifetime warranty (NLA). No braner. Edited August 19, 2019 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 45 minutes ago, padgett said: ...a sticker for the owner's manual... My car got the recall. There also was an adhesive-backed printed aluminum plate you were supposed to stick on the console - as I recall, it encouraged you to keep the oil filled and change it per the maintenance schedule. I still have a service manual and the owner's manual with recall sticker from my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Guess the plate was more general than I recall - just encouraged proper maintenance. The rest of the recall document is here (scroll down through page): http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20060811-1-038264.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 That is funny - says "fewer than one percent of 1985-1987 Fieros..." - the problem was with the '84s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) My '85 GT ran great, never caught fire or broke in half. Its best feature was aux.stereo speakers in the seat headrests, The V-6 had lots of go. Edited August 19, 2019 by JFranklin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPPI Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Quote That is funny - says "fewer than one percent of 1985-1987 Fieros..." - the problem was with the '84s. There were a few recalls to the later models, more so out of overreaction to the early fires trying to prevent any more mishaps, basically PR damage control. One of which was to remove the rubber seal from the forward edge of the trunk lid under the rear glass. You can see the seal in the trunk photo at the top of the page, there are clips that hold it in place where those little red squares are. They were afraid the seal would become detached and fall down onto the exhaust manifold. But that did more harm than good in most cases, because without that seal leaves could fall between the rear glass and trunk lid onto a hot exhaust manifold after the driver parked. The other issue with removing that seal is that rain water or when washing the car, water would get on hot exhaust manifold and eventually crack over time, which is a common problem on the inward manifold for these reasons. Many Fiero owners feel its best to leave the seal in place and just make sure it is secured properly. Personally I left my seal off because without it more engine compartment heat can escape, was conscientious where I parked, and didn't use it in rainy weather. Edited August 19, 2019 by PVPPI (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 22 hours ago, Roger Walling said: While my 84 Fiero didn't actually break in half, it was in two pieces during reconstruction of my toy. Here's another Fiero home creation: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?46221-Remember-the-Wizard-of-Oz&highlight=fiero Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVPPI Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Those are some interesting creations... I suppose you could do that sort of thing with any car. Here are a few of my favorite Fiero modifications... Edited August 19, 2019 by PVPPI (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVXJET Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) I have owned my 1985 SE V6 since new- Ordered it from the factory with the V6, the handling suspension, and nothing else; It weighed 2580 then...Now, with some mods (88 rear suspension/subframe, 3.4 long block, Getrag 5 speed, and some body mods (But it looks like a Fiero still!) it weighs 2640- that includes a tool kit and 1 (spare) gallon of antifreeze. (Note; I designed and made the "B" pillars out of aluminum- The lower scoops were made by a fellow Fiero owner) Only 5000 of the first year's 110,000 had the possibility of catching fire- The rods could break from low oil and cut the oil pan next to the Cat. Only 260 had this happen- That number vs the 110,000 manufactured in 1984 gives it a better than AVERAGE fire rate! The V6s never had that problem, and they were as fast as a normally aspirated RX7 or 300ZX of the 80s. The overheating problem could be traced to two situations; 1) Jacking the car up could crush one of the stainless coolant tubes cutting off coolant flow (I have NEVER had a problem with this) and, 2) If you fill the coolant system from the front only, you will leave an air bubble- cutting off the flow also. (I am careful to fill the system properly) Also, the Fiero was the first American car manufactured using Edward Deming's TQM system (Total Quality Management)....What is TQM and who is this Deming guy? He was the AMERICAN who taught the Japanese Quality control in the 50s and 60s....That's right, an American taught the Japanese Quality control! TQM is now used by Every car manufacturer in the world...... If you read the R&T and Motor Trend tests of the 1985 GT, it sounds like a world beater- then in 1986 the magazines all started bombing it, and even the much improved 1988 GT was bombed while the MR2 and CRX were "gifts from heaven".....The only good tests of the later Fieros was a Motorweek comparo between a Fiero Formula and a MR2 Supercharged and the R&T 1987 Sports & GT Special test by Peter Egan "There may still be a few of the small details to be refined, but Pontiac has done it's job on the important things. What more can you ask of a real sports car than you get from the Fiero GT? It looks racy and exotic, sticks to the road like glue, sounds good and gets you from one side of the mountain to the other quicker than all but a few cars on Earth- for $13,489." Edited August 19, 2019 by CVXJET (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydar Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Lots of good info here. My first Fiero was an 85 GT purchased new in 85. I traded it in 88 because I needed a bigger car. I bought an 88 coupe in late 1997, and have had at least one Fiero ever since. I currently own two 88s. One has a 4.9/Allante engine and a 5 speed, and the other is a 4 cylinder, waiting for a DOHC 3.4 swap. Edited August 19, 2019 by Raydar (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, CVXJET said: I have owned my 1985 SE V6 since new Welcome to the site CVXJET and Raydar. Since both of you are longtime Fiero owners you need to watch the video that I posted on the first page of this thread which shows that many Fiero owners are class acts who will spend their time and money to help someone in need and that the cars are definitely NOT "junk out of the gate" like some clueless people think they are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdarrunt Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Two of the most fun cars I have owned is a 1966 Corvair with the Crown Engineering sbc V8 kit and an 88 Fiero with a 377ci sbc. Neither overheated and neither broke in half. They DID have extensive modiifications but ended up being machines with a near perfect 50/50 front to rear weight bias and were real corner carvers. Should have kept BOTH of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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