Harold

New Craigslist TOU...any thoughts?

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I just tried to log into my CL account and was greeted by a delightful new Terms of Use agreement for me to sign.  Seems like there are now a multitude of ways for them to collect penalties for a variety of offenses.   I haven't digested them all yet, but was wondering if others got this notice and what they think about it.

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I sell or I try to sell on CL   have never listed a car  just antiques and materials   do not know if I have an account   but I just go to the appropriate heading for my article and list             I have read about people having issues -----is that just for cars ?????     what is the issue ??

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The new TOU has a list of offenses that CL can charge you for if they occur.   They actually have dollar values attached to them (like $4.00 per offense).  I found it very strange that they broke things down that way.

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Posted (edited)

  WELCOME TO CRAIGSLIST. We (craigslist, Inc.) hope you find
it useful. By accessing or otherwise interacting with our servers,
services, websites, mobile app ("App"), or any associated
content/postings (together, "CL"), you agree to these Terms of Use
("TOU") (last updated August 16, 2019). You acknowledge and agree CL is
a private site owned and operated by craigslist, Inc. If you are
accessing or using CL on behalf of a business, you represent and
warrant to CL that you have authority to accept the TOU on behalf of
that business and that that business agrees to the TOU. If you do not
agree to the TOU, you are not authorized to use CL or download the App.
We may modify the TOU at any time in our sole discretion. You are
responsible for periodically checking for changes and are bound by them
if you continue to use CL. Our privacy policy
(cl.com/about/privacy.policy),
https://cl.com/about/privacy.policy
prohibited list (cl.com/about/prohibited),
https://cl.com/about/prohibited
and all other policies, site rules, and agreements referenced below or
on CL, are fully incorporated into this TOU, and you agree to them as
well.
        LICENSE. If you agree to the TOU and (1) are of sufficient
age and capacity to use CL and be bound by the TOU, or (2) use CL on
behalf of a business, thereby binding that business to the TOU, we
grant you a limited, revocable, non-exclusive, non-assignable license
to use CL in compliance with the TOU; unlicensed use is unauthorized.
You agree not to display, "frame," make derivative works, distribute,
license, or sell, content from CL, excluding postings you create. You
grant us a perpetual, irrevocable, unlimited, worldwide, fully
paid/sublicensable license to use, copy, display, distribute, and make
derivative works from content you post.
        USE. Unless licensed by us in a separate written or
electronic agreement, you agree not to use or provide software (except
our App and general purpose web browsers and email clients) or services
that interact or interoperate with CL, e.g. for downloading, uploading,
creating/accessing/using an account, posting, flagging, emailing,
searching, or mobile use. You agree not to copy/collect CL content via
robots, spiders, scripts, scrapers, crawlers, or any automated or
manual equivalent (e.g., by hand). Misleading, unsolicited, and/or
unlawful postings/communications/accounts are prohibited, as is buying
or selling accounts. You agree not to post content that is prohibited
by any of CL's policies or rules referenced above ("Prohibited
Content"). You agree not to abuse CL's flagging or reporting processes.
You agree not to collect CL user information or interfere with CL. You
agree we may moderate CL access/use in our sole discretion, e.g., by
blocking, filtering, re-categorizing, re-ranking, deleting, delaying,
holding, omitting, verifying, or terminating your
access/license/account. You agree (1) not to bypass said moderation,
(2) we are not liable for moderating or not moderating, and (3) nothing
we say or do waives our right to moderate, or not. Unless licensed by
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rent, lease, sell, publish, distribute, license, sublicense, assign,
transfer, or otherwise make available CL or our application programming
interface ("API"), (ii) copy, adapt, create derivative works of,
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App, the API, any website code, or any software used to provide CL,
(iii) combine or integrate CL or the API with any software, technology,
services, or materials not authorized by us, (iv) circumvent any
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proprietary rights notices. You agree not to use CL or the API in any
manner or for any purpose that infringes, misappropriates, or otherwise
violates any intellectual property right or other right of any person,
or that violates any applicable law.
        LIQUIDATED DAMAGES. You further agree that if you violate
the TOU, or you encourage, support, benefit from, or induce others to
do so, you will be jointly and severally liable to us for liquidated
damages as follows for: (A) collecting/harvesting CL users'
information, including personal or identifying information - $1 per
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of a third party in connection with your use of CL without that party's
express written consent - $1,000 per violation; (C) misrepresenting
your identity or affiliation to anyone in connection with your use of
CL - $1,000 per violation; (D) posting or attempting to post Prohibited
Content - $4 per violation; (E) posting or attempting to post
Prohibited Content in any paid section of CL - the price per post
applicable to that section of CL; (F) sending an
unauthorized/unsolicited email to an email address obtained from CL -
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(I) abusing or attempting to abuse CL's flagging or reporting processes
- $1 per violation; (J) distributing any software to facilitate
violations of the USE Section - $1,000 per violation; (K) aggregating,
displaying, framing, copying, duplicating, reproducing, making
derivative works from, distributing, licensing, selling, or exploiting
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for each day you engage in such violations; (L) requesting, viewing, or
accessing more than 1,000 pages of CL in any 24-hour period - $0.25 per
page during the 24 hour period after the first 1,000 pages; (M)
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above liquidated damages or statutory damages under the anti-spam
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in addition to monetary damages.

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(cl.com/about/help/posting_fees),
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liability, or expenses (including attorneys' fees) that arise from a
third party and relate to your use of CL; and (3) be liable and
responsible for any Claims we may have against your officers,
directors, employees, agents, affiliates, or any other party, directly
or indirectly, paid, directed or controlled by you, or acting for your
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the exclusive and entire agreement between us and you, and supersedes
all prior and contemporaneous understandings, agreements,
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with prior written licenses may access CL thereby until authorization
is terminated. Our actions or silence toward you or anyone else does
not waive, modify, or limit the TOU or our ability to enforce it. The
USE, LIQUIDATED DAMAGES, and CLAIMS & INDEMNITY sections survive
termination of the TOU, and you will remain bound by those sections. If
a TOU term is unenforceable, it shall be limited to the least extent
possible and supplemented with a valid provision that best embodies the
intent of the parties. The English version of the TOU controls over any
translations. If you reasonably believe content infringes your IP
rights, see cl.com/about/dmca.
 

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)

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CL has become passe...............

 

FB Marketplace is the new kid on the block and going gangbusters.

 

who wants to be beat up by a reseller?

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I've had no luck with FB Marketplace. Every time I try to write to a seller, a pop-up says "seller is not able to receive messages at this time."  I've never had this happen on CL.

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Posted (edited)

Well Harold , it seems that you will be the first to brake one or many of there rules. let us know of the fine, excuse me, the service charge.  😉

 

 Actually, according to my reading, it seems to be to protect the reader and seller from spammers. But also prevents anyone from re posting there sales offers in different web sites.

 I have seen many re posts in specialty web forums that actually help buyers looking for specific cars.

Edited by Roger Walling (see edit history)

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Well not quite: what it says is. "You agree not to display, "frame," make derivative works, distribute,
license, or sell, content from CL, excluding postings you create." (emphasis mine).

 

" You grant us a perpetual, irrevocable, unlimited, worldwide, fully
paid/sublicensable license to use, copy, display, distribute, and make
derivative works from content you post."

They limit it to "worldwide" ?

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Oh no I'm going to get a pile of service charges as I'm always reposting cars to here.  I'll let you know the bill.  Until then I'll keep trying to help buyers and sellers out. 

Of course I'm a rebel as well,  because I have posted the same ad on more than one Craigslist at a time.  Really.  I'm looking for something or even selling it and I'm on the fringe of about 6 different craigslist.  I'm suppose to wait a week.  Then remove it and list it on a different one?  That's ridiculous.  I post them all once a week.  I could see spamming the crap out of it every day as being a problem,  but do they not realize that you have to have content for people to want to view your site?  

Ebay is pushing a fine line as well, as they keep abusing their sellers forgetting that you need sellers to do the work of putting up items for buyers to buy.  The sellers do all the work and get the least representation. 

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Of course we all know to be careful when buying i.e. cars on CL.  example a friend of a friend just last week purchased what he thought was a good deal from a private party on  Sacarmento Craigslist.  $14,000. When he went DMV to register the car he found out it had been rented from a rental company.    All normal documents provided by seller were bogus Title,  his I.D etc. all fake. Police say no recourse because he can not be traced.  The buyer  is OUT $14,000. I Guess  transactions need to be done at the bank AND the DMV to be safe.

just saying.. it can happen. 

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In Florida you can check all of that online. Most of my cars were bought from CL but I checked the history first. If the seller will not give you the VIN just cross that one off. Of course Florida is different from California...

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3 hours ago, padgett said:

Of course Florida is different from California...

 

4 hours ago, 414TATA said:

Of course we all know to be careful when buying i.e. cars on CL.  example a friend of a friend just last week purchased what he thought was a good deal from a private party on  Sacarmento Craigslist.  $14,000. When he went DMV to register the car he found out it had been rented from a rental company.    All normal documents provided by seller were bogus Title,  his I.D etc. all fake. Police say no recourse because he can not be traced.  The buyer  is OUT $14,000. I Guess  transactions need to be done at the bank AND the DMV to be safe.

just saying.. it can happen. 

 

Thanks for the heads up for that potential disaster!

 

In California you can check the VIN online to see what the back fees are due, if any. They will not disclose the owners name and address out of privacy concerns. Might be a stalker looking for someone.

 

 

 

 

 

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