There's GOT to be a way...Brake Accumulator

[Mad_Bohemian 3]

I have found there are all sorts of hydraulic brake accumulators that can still be had (except for our TCs )  I'm not very knowledgeable on how that all works, but it would seem to me that the principles should be the same and one should be able to use  one from another vehicle... If it's a matter of matching up threads, adapters could be machined. Please educate me guys, what makes the TC accumulator the ONLY  kind that can be used....has anyone ever attempted a swap..??

Edited August 17, 2019 by Mad_Bohemian (see edit history)

[4 Peaks 11]

I got one from TC Parts.   www.TCParts.com

[ghostymosty 61]

If I remember all the threads on this, the issue is simply clearance from the firewall and clearance from the hood. Some people have notched a clearance in the firewall to make other accumulators fit if I remember correctly. The other thing to be careful about is the pressure of the accumulator, some are higher or lower than the TC which could make a problem.

[TC KER 4]

When changing out  the old accumulator for a new one is it best to bleed the brakes with the old accumulator on or put the new accumulator on first and then bleed the brakes?

[Reaper1 94]

Replace the accumulator first, then bleed the system.

[TC KER 4]

Thank you Reaper1.

[Mad_Bohemian 3]

Here's a PM I got from a member..
 

Quote

Accumulators are plentiful, buying quantity one at a reasonable price is the challenge. For $400 you can still get the factory original ATE accumulator with a Jaguar part number, double that price and you can get the exact same part with a Cesna part number. ATE will not sell retail direct quantity one to a private party.

With the dollar at todays value, the WABCO STC2784 delivered to your door from Range Rover Parts in England is best priced part from another car that is fully compatible physical size, thread fitting and operating pressure. Does hold a couple more cc's of fluid than the factory original ATE part so the resivour tank looks lower than it does with the ATE part when pressurized.

 

 

[TC KER 4]

I'm having a heck of a time trying to locate a replacement relay.  It's the black one that appears to be affiliated with the brake pump motor.  It's from under the hood in the black box on the passenger side (the box that contains this black one, the orange one, the green one and the two 30 amps fuses).  I had the hard brake thing going on so I put on a new accumulator and then found out the pump motor wasn't working.  I traced it over to this relay by jumping the the female side of the plug which activated the pump motor.  Does anyone know where to get one of these relays?

[Hemi Dude 263]

1 hour ago, TC KER said:

I'm having a heck of a time trying to locate a replacement relay.  It's the black one that appears to be affiliated with the brake pump motor.  It's from under the hood in the black box on the passenger side (the box that contains this black one, the orange one, the green one and the two 30 amps fuses).  I had the hard brake thing going on so I put on a new accumulator and then found out the pump motor wasn't working.  I traced it over to this relay by jumping the the female side of the plug which activated the pump motor.  Does anyone know where to get one of these relays?

Have you pulled the fuse and checked the terminals that the fuse slips into? Most failures are due to the fuse and terminal burning away. 

[TC KER 4]

Hi Hemi,

 

Good to hear from you.  I scratched inside all 4 female parts of the plug in your picture and wire brushed all 4 male parts. I used a jumper wire from the top female plug (in your picture) to the one on the right side and the pump motor worked and the hard brake thing went away.  When I plug the relay back in the pump motor won't work. Do you think the relay is bad?

 

Thank you, Kerry

[TC KER 4]

I checked both 30 amp fuses with a meter and they are functioning properly.

[Hemi Dude 263]

Did you use an OHM meter or a VOLT meter. Did you actually pull the fuse out and look?

[TC KER 4]

I used a volt meter. I'm not very experienced doing this.  I took the two screws that hold the fuse box into place off and then turned the box upside down.  I put the positive pin of the volt meter before the 30a fuse and the negative pin of the meter on a random metal ground and got continuity (the same continuity as touching the meter pins directly to the battery). Then I did the same thing on the other side of the same 30a fuse.  I did this to both of the 30 amp fuses so they appear to be working correctly. Both 30 amp fuses are in new condition.

[Hemi Dude 263]

2 hours ago, TC KER said:

I used a volt meter. I'm not very experienced doing this.  I took the two screws that hold the fuse box into place off and then turned the box upside down.  I put the positive pin of the volt meter before the 30a fuse and the negative pin of the meter on a random metal ground and got continuity (the same continuity as touching the meter pins directly to the battery). Then I did the same thing on the other side of the same 30a fuse.  I did this to both of the 30 amp fuses so they appear to be working correctly. Both 30 amp fuses are in new condition.

Well then, let me ask you this question... Have you checked the circuit that ACTIVATES the relay which go to the other 2 legs of the relay?  Here is a test procedure.

You want to follow the check list to the right beginning with the words "Check motor fuse (30A). Go down the list.

[Hemi Dude 263]

Let me know tomorrow or Monday what you find.

[TC KER 4]

I'm working on the "check pump/motor current" and "check pressure control switch".  I'll let you know how that turns out. 

 

I found the motor relay to be good; I tested it by following this video:

 

 

 

 

[Hemi Dude 263]

I was quite sure you would find the relay operational.

I would suspect the pressure switch first, the ABS controller last.

Check continuity of all related wiring. 

[Triple Black 1991 1]

If one of your pictures showed the schematic I could get you a part number for an aftermarket if available.

[Triple Black 1991 1]

It seems the Original part number for the black relay is 4463357.

So far it looks like an OE unit is avail through arizona parts (after he returns from vacation)

you could also try tcparts.com

[Hemi Dude 263]

7 minutes ago, Triple Black 1991 said:

It seems the Original part number for the black relay is 4463357.

So far it looks like an OE unit is avail through arizona parts (after he returns from vacation)

you could also try tcparts.com

"I found the motor relay to be good; " TC KER indicated that the relay was OK.

[Triple Black 1991 1]

sorry... I missed that😳

[Matthew Cody 18]

The accumulator is the same as GM part 25528382 or Jaguar JMC1907. Chrysler discontinued the parts decades ago, the GM part has been "Discontinued" but the Jag part is still available, at a pretty high cost.  I ran those numbers on eBay and found several new units available for around $280+ with positive reviews, they are not specifically labeled by who manufactures them. These accumulators do have a shelf life of 10 years, so getting a "New Old Stock" unit may not be wise. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Matthew Cody (see edit history)

[Hemi Dude 263]

Time is running out on the ULTIMATE FIX See our ABS replacement article  Not because the instructions will go away, but your salvage yard stock is depleting.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Hemi Dude
Different website added (see edit history)

[4 Peaks 11]

I got a accumulator for my 89 8v two years ago, from TC Parts.  $250. +shipping.

[Matthew Cody 18]

52 minutes ago, Hemi Dude said:

Time is running out on the ULTIMATE FIX See our ABS replacement article  Not because the instructions will go away, but your salvage yard stock is depleting.

That's the way I'd normally do it, but my 91 is an all original 46K mile example and I want to keep it as original as possible. I'm going to replace my accumulator along with a brake flush (never been done as far as I know)...now if I can find a lesser loved 90-91 V6 car I'd have fun, delete the Teves and do a manual transmission swap. 

[Hemi Dude 263]

That TC which I sent a photo of in the SUBJECT line "THINKING ABOUT PAINTING MY 90 5 SPEES" has been converted to a 3.0L with a 5 speed. I drove it on Interstate 40, real fun to drive.

[TC KER 4]

Thanks for the picture of the checklist you showed me Hemi.  I'm struggling to figure out some of it so I'm looking for a mechanic in The Coachella Valley area that knows how to work on the electrical part of the brakes. I've found out that 3 auto shops out here (Exotic Car Services, Davies and Gabor Foreign) won't work on them.  The pump motor works when I used a jump wire at the relay and I believe from the testing I did on the relay that it is good.  I really feel I'm close to figuring this out and it is something simple.  You don't suppose it has anything to do with the "4 warning lights not working" that you and I went over when we met in Laughlin do you?  I wonder if anyone has any leads for a mechanic me?

[TC KER 4]

I found a mechanic that walked me through the electrical functions and we found that the pressure switch has failed.  Is part number AC Delco #25530882 the correct pressure switch replacement part? 

 

[Hemi Dude 263]

Last Sunday I wrote "I would suspect the pressure switch first, the ABS controller last."  Glad you found that to be the cause, the Chrysler part # is 4464005. It appears that GM# 25530882 is the correct part you need.

[TC KER 4]

Has anyone ever posted the instructions on how to change out the pressure control switch?  I can't seem to find any instructions on this.  Is a special tool needed?

[Hemi Dude 263]

There is likely a special socket, but you can ‘break it loose’ with a pair of “water-pump pliers. Be sure that the system is pressured DOWN, even though the system has been inoperative, you did manage to power up the pump!

Once it is loose and unplugged, just unscrew it. Screw in the new one snugly, plug it in and the system should power up when you turn on the ignition. Make sure you have no leaks. Clean all spilled brake fluid with a water rinse and blow away residual water with compressed air.

[TC KER 4]

I'm thankful to hear that it should be a relatively easy operation.  I was curious what would happen if I tested the new pressure control switch by plugging the 5 pin electrical connection in it without screwing it in to the brake unit and turning on the ignition.  Would it make some sort of sound or vibration?

[royalcabTC 14]

Hi, I was going through some old parts that I had bought for my TC and found an accumulator that is new/old stock. I found that the speed sensors were damaged when the previous owner had the struts replaced so I am going to convert the brakes using Hemi Dudes article. I will not need this. Asking $150 plus shipping. Contact @ ny72satellite@yahoo dot com

[Hemi Dude 263]

4 hours ago, TC KER said:

I'm thankful to hear that it should be a relatively easy operation.  I was curious what would happen if I tested the new pressure control switch by plugging the 5 pin electrical connection in it without screwing it in to the brake unit and turning on the ignition.  Would it make some sort of sound or vibration?

I WOULD NOT DO THAT! Theoretically it would energize the system and run the pump continuously, IT WOULD NOT SHUT OFF, I suspect.  

Install it and let us know the result.

Buy that accumulator above, if still available.

[TC KER 4]

Ok,

 

The new pressure control switch is supposed to arrive 1 week from today so I'll install it soon after that.  I already put a new accumulator on about a week or so ago; I paid $280 for it on Ebay:  https://www.ebay.com/p/1142294990

 

Total amount:    $280.00 USD Order Description:    New ABS Brake Accumulator - Jaguar JLM1907 -  Saab 4002267 - Delco 25528382 Message:    Item Id: 382980992739 Buyer's Vehicle: 1990 Chrysler TC Maserati Base Convertible 2-Door 3.0L 2972CC 181Cu. In. V6 GAS SOHC Naturally Aspirated Hi Kerry,Yes it will definitely fit your 1990 Chrysler TC.Thanks,Dave

 

 

I'll let you know about the success story soon. Thanks again, Kerry.

[TC KER 4]

I can't seem to remove the pressure control switch with the water pump pliers. I've all but destroyed it and it won't budge.  Any other suggestions on how to remove it? 

 

 

[Hemi Dude 263]

Well, I guess I got to ask you, "Just how big is your tool?" I'm not talking about some short 9 1/2" job. I've got one 16 1/2" that I use on tough jobs.

Guys, 🤣 we are talking about 'water-pump pliers' here!!!

The main point when you are working on some stubborn part, bolt or nut "HAVE NO MERCY!" If you want it to come off, MAKE IT!

[TC KER 4]

The brakes are fixed and I’m on the road again.  They feel like they are back to new again.  FYI Hemi, the 4 warning lights started working again and all of them went off like they are supposed to; then as sudden as they worked they stopped again; hopefully they will come back on again, our good friend time will tell.  I have a question on the brake fluid level.  I pumped the brakes 25 times until it was hard with the ignition off and the level was at the full mark but when I took it for a drive as you can see in this photo the fluid level is up to the words "DO NOT".  Is this acceptable/correct?

 

 

Not that I’m recommending this but this is how I got the old pressure control switch off.  I bought this random socket that I saw at AutoZone for around $30.  It's open on one side and for some reason it fit onto the pressure control switch perfect.  I put it on the pressure control switch with the cut out of the socket pointing up and then drilled a hole in the pressure control switch and put a screw in it because the socket wound up stripping the pressure control switch. My wife held a crow bar wedged in next to the accumulator post because the whole unit moves when you try to take it off.  I used an pipe over the top of the ratchet and it broke loose. 

 

[Hemi Dude 263]

1 hour ago, TC KER said:

The brakes are fixed and I’m on the road again.  They feel like they are back to new again.  FYI Hemi, the 4 warning lights started working again and all of them went off like they are supposed to; then as sudden as they worked they stopped again; hopefully they will come back on again, our good friend time will tell.  I have a question on the brake fluid level.  I pumped the brakes 25 times until it was hard with the ignition off and the level was at the full mark but when I took it for a drive as you can see in this photo the fluid level is up to the words "DO NOT".  Is this acceptable/correct?

Not that I’m recommending this but this is how I got the old pressure control switch off.  I bought this random socket that I saw at AutoZone for around $30.  It's open on one side and for some reason it fit onto the pressure control switch perfect.  I put it on the pressure control switch with the cut out of the socket pointing up and then drilled a hole in the pressure control switch and put a screw in it because the socket wound up stripping the pressure control switch. My wife held a crow bar wedged in next to the accumulator post because the whole unit moves when you try to take it off.  I used an pipe over the top of the ratchet and it broke loose. 

 

As I suggested, "HAVE NO MERCY!" You got it off and a new one on. Congratulations!!!  

In your question, you mean that the level has fallen from the FULL arrow, down to the DO NOT area on the reservoir. THAT IS NORMAL when the system is pressured up.

[TC KER 4]

It's nice to have her up and running like normal again. Hopefully this journey to track down a bad pressure control switch can help someone in the future.  Hemi, I'll look you up next time I'm in your area and let know when you're near Indio.  Thanks to all who contributed.