Mark Kikta

1922 Starter generator

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I have almost completed disassembly of my starter generator.  Here are pictures of my front and rear bearings as well as the armature.  What have others used to degrease and clean your armatures with before testing?

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Mark, 

     I would GENTLY use a little wax and grease remover on a paper towel and just clean off the majority of the armature without using much pressure.   That insulation can be very fragile, and if you leave it alone it can work fine even though it does not look very clean.  Undercut your generator armature surface and you should be good to go.    Hugh

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Today I finished cleaning up the Case and end pieces of the starter generator portion.  Looks like I need a couple of brushes that are very near their limits.  I believe I will replace some of the brittle/ decaying wiring with modern rubber coated wire.

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When you go to assemble it, I think you'll find it easier to install the brushes last after everything else is in place.

Juggling the brushes and trying to install the armature is difficult if the breushes are in place first.

 

I just rebuilt three '18 Buick SG's. Fortunately the brushes were OK.

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16 minutes ago, Mark Kikta said:

Thanks Don

 

Did you have to rewire any of the brush holders?

 

Don't rewire, just use the heat shrink insulation over the old insulation. The wire itself is tinned copper which is the best there is, and lasts for 1000000 years. 

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I can’t tell by your picture but if the wire you want to replace attaches to the movable brush assembly you will need to replace it with something like this. 

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Electrical-Silicone-Flexible-temperature-resistance/dp/B0756TDXJ9

 

you must use high strand count wire which is very flexible. You do not want to reduce the flexibility if it attaches to a movable brush. 

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Here are a couple of pictures of the wire I am most concerned with.  The insulation is deteriorated at three locations and yes it is on one of the movable brush holders.  So I see why you say it needs to remain flexible.  If I shrink wrap this wire it will lose some of it's flexibility.  I am going to order some of that flexible wire stvaughn mentioned to see how it feels before I decide how to deal with this one.

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Posted (edited)

Mark, 

      A previous owner used some wire sleeving in my starter generator for the same issue.  This is more durable and flexible than heat shrink.  See Sleeving and then fiberglass high temperature sleeving.  McMaster Carr sells it.  Just another option.  Shown here in yellow.   You can also see the heat shrink used on the left.     Hugh

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/wire-sheathing

 

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Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Mark,

I replaced the wire you show. All were shot, one had been in a fire.

That wire follows the brush and must flex some. I agree with your concers. But you must use high strand count wire for flexability.

 

I would like to find suitable starter brush material so I could machine up a spare set. Mine might last only another 50 years!

 

One of the crazy things is that the one starter brush is always in contact with the commutator.

 

I also ahd to replace the little rollers on the brush lifting arm

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I ordered the wire from Amazon that said "Soft and Flexible 1050 Strands 0.08 mm of Tinned copper wire High temperature resistance"  Anxious to see what it is like.

 

My rollers in the photo below look OK to me but could use some lube after cleaning.  Did you lube your rollers with anything?

 

I am told there is a company here in Baltimore that will make brushes.  Now I'm just trying to find out who they are.

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Mark :

 It looks like you are going through the S/G meticulously so I believe you will have a great reliable unit. And yes where the wires are frayed and need replaced the newer high strand count and high temp insulation is a good choice. I have a small section of the roller material  in case you need it. Sometimes there is a flat spot or they crack or break from hard use.

 

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Larry,

What is the material used in the rollers?  It looks like phenolic in the photo.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Cleaned up my armature as well and used my hobby saw to undercut the armature commutator surface. Seems like the commutator pieces are all good.  Did not see any shorts with my volt meter tests.

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I made my brollers from phenolic and didnt use lubricant. The lube might collect brush dust and jam things up.

As long as the roller is free, rotates and has no flats it is OK.

 

A friend bought brushes and they cost a small fortune. I'm willing to make mine if I can find the correct material.

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Advance Electrical Rebuilders in Michigan make the brushes for most model  S/G  Not cheap. On EBay for $120

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I went ahead, gave in and ordered a full set for my 22.   This way I can change them all out at once and no more worries.   I also decided to go ahead and use that wire that I ordered to replace all the wiring in my S/G.  It was all very soft tinned copper so it should work fine.

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Mark, 

    Where did you get the hack saw for the armature.  I used a broken off hack saw blade and it seemed Ok, but slightly wider than I wanted for the task.    Hugh 

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11 minutes ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Mark, 

    Where did you get the hack saw for the armature.  I used a broken off hack saw blade and it seemed Ok, but slightly wider than I wanted for the task.    Hugh 

Grind the kerf off of the teeth. 

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Hugh,

 

Bought it at a hobby store where they sell modeling supplies

 

R,

Mark

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Posted (edited)

Mark,  did you order the brushes with the recess.   there the ones I got for my 1920.  Not sure if 22 is the same.

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Edited by ROD W (see edit history)

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Yes I sure did.  The picture had 5 brushes that I closely compared with mine.  There was an application chart also that showed this kit fitting 1918-1922 I believe.  I ordered the kit with 2 large recessed brushes and 3 smaller others. Two with 2 holes and one with 1 hole.  My S/G is a model 184 which was on the application list.

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