Steve_Mack_CT

Young people in the hobby DO exist!!

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I'm 37, so no kid, but on the younger end of the spectrum.  I think the important thing is what's discussed above - I'm in my local AACA chapter but I can't make it to everything. Went to a cruise-in with the club this Saturday, but had to leave early because my kids were going crazy and it was past their bedtime. I think the connectivity offered by the internet and forums like this will really save the hobby.  I've gotten advice from across the globe as I've working on my Packard!

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Mr. Beck, how come you are so much nicer in person!  You even smile! :) Good seeing you this past weekend.  Seriously, you are absolutely right about the MAIN focus is not real young people.  Just A focus!  We will lose a few generations if we do not focus on those with time and disposable income and the time to devote to this hobby.  It is a big reason why we developed the Military program which is finally starting to take off !  However, nurturing and supporting young people still must happen as well.

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Posted (edited)

So I dropped off a care package to my new friend this morning.  He was knee deep in the Chrysler, which is a 27, I was mistaken yesterday.  He is going to email or text me his name & address, he is 20 years of age.  He remembers riding in the car with his grandfather as a child, and definately wants it running as it did a few years back.  Never heard of AACA, this forum, or even Hemmings.  So he has a lot to learn, and he also now has a couple of contacts who PM-ed who know those early Chrysler cars much better than i do.  A good start... 🙂

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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They're out there and i find most of them have a lot of disdain for those who try to tell them anything with an engine is bad. 

 

I have two teenage car buddies, one 19-year-old who is searching for a 1969 Barracuda (and is finding that even hardcore Mopar folks are dismissive of the 67-69 cars) and a 17-year-old who has a nicely done 1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary. I took them to the GAA auction in Greensboro a couple weeks ago and those boys were in heaven. Both can talk knowledgeably about cars and the Camaro kid takes exceptional care of his car, as I'm sure the Cuda kid will once he finds it.

 

So I encourage youngun's who like cars every chance I get, as we all should do. They get fed enough crap without older car guys feeding them more.

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4 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Mr. Beck, how come you are so much nicer in person!  You even smile

 

Nice talking to you also, Steve. Most people do find me pleasant and helpful. I do consider myself principled and as you probably noticed I don't hesitate to voice my opinions and when necessary press my point. It's seldom personal.

4 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Seriously, you are absolutely right about the MAIN focus is not real young people.  Just A focus!  We will lose a few generations if we do not focus on those with time and disposable income and the time to devote to this hobby.

 

I'm glad we are in agreement. And apparently we are. I was expecting  a bit of a negative reaction and am glad most, so far at least, took my comments as constructive and not as a mindless complaint.

Likely just as important, perhaps even more so, is retaining members. I've let my membership lapse this year. I wonder why. Do you?..............Bob

 

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My son seen here at 18, in 2017 washing the car. Getting ready for a cruise. I let him take it out for cruises with his girlfriend. He's loves the car. He has told me I am not ever allowed to sell it as some day he wants to claim that "Ya, this was my Dad's car when I was a teenager. I own it now." That brings me a smile.

 

However I am not sure what is to become of the the blood, sweat, and tears required to own and maintain an old car like this. My son seems busy with many other things in his life. Wrenching is not anywhere near the top of his list of interests. Perhaps he will slow down as he ages and become more like his old man? I hope so. I just can't get enough of the time I spend, over the fenders of my vintage cars. I thoroughly enjoy repairing and maintaining them. To me, it's a big benefit of owning an old car. To my son, it seems like maybe something he'll deal with in the future.

 

We all come from different up-bringing. The times today are very different than when each of us were young. I was over, under, and on my old jalopies every weekend out of necessity. Just to keep them running. My old man had little to no car wrenching experience, so I had to figure things out. Often the hard way. Often throwing good money after bad to try and repair a wore out car. Todays junkers are computerized, OBD-equipped cars with fuel injection, ABS and a host of other ailments to try and repair. A 20 year old car today would likely not be all that cheap, nor fun try and keep running for a young person new to wrenching. In 1987 my 14 year old Pinto, or my 11 year old Dodge Dart were simple vehicles. Bolt on parts and go. I did not know much about the words, scanner or diagnostics.

 

Young people today do drive. I see a lot of them in 2003 Honda Civics. Or Toyotas or some other Asian car. As repair parts and shipping costs continue to sky-rocket in price, do they more often just drive 'em to death and crush 'em? Missing out on all the wrenching we did as teens? These newer cars are not built to last that's fore sure. Car culture has evolved, much has changed. Perhaps as all the baby-boomers age, vintage car prices will fall?  Perhaps a new generation is waiting in the wings for price reductions? Maybe there is a large group on the cusp of taking over? We shall see. Already we know that there are few cars that can be restored for profits any more. Many old cars barely attract a sell price that will allow an owner to break even on new installed parts alone. Never mind body and paint costs.

 

I am a member of my local Vintage Car Club. I get my son involved whenever I can. He drives club owned vintage cars whenever possible. He respects and actually likes old, stock, cars. I will continue to try and keep hum interested. Also continue to try and attract interest in the club, from a younger generation.

 

IMG_1796.PNG

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My son has a 2001 Acura CL  S3.2 that I would like to get my hands on once in a while.

image.png.792a436095b9ef0812ee40a23dee8761.png

 

But he won't let me drive it.

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Meet Miss Victoria ....

 

89A1CDB7-84A0-45BB-890F-8AADCA8B89A7.thumb.jpeg.45287587b9c431d8cedfc17139a8669c.jpeg

 

“ Tori “ is 26 and joined the the Crew at Last Chance Garage in Unionville, PA about a month ago.

 

My good friend Lou Mandich is very pleased with how Tori is working out.

 

 

Jim

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30 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

My son seen here at 18, in 2017 washing the car. Getting ready for a cruise. I let him take it out for cruises with his girlfriend. He's loves the car. He has told me I am not ever allowed to sell it as some day he wants to claim that "Ya, this was my Dad's car when I was a teenager. I own it now." That brings me a smile.

 

However I am not sure what is to become of the the blood, sweat, and tears required to own and maintain an old car like this. My son seems busy with many other things in his life. Wrenching is not anywhere near the top of his list of interests. Perhaps he will slow down as he ages and become more like his old man? I hope so. I just can't get enough of the time I spend, over the fenders of my vintage cars. I thoroughly enjoy repairing and maintaining them. To me, it's a big benefit of owning an old car. To my son, it seems like maybe something he'll deal with in the future.

 

We all come from different up-bringing. The times today are very different than when each of us were young. I was over, under, and on my old jalopies every weekend out of necessity. Just to keep them running. My old man had little to no car wrenching experience, so I had to figure things out. Often the hard way. Often throwing good money after bad to try and repair a wore out car. Todays junkers are computerized, OBD-equipped cars with fuel injection, ABS and a host of other ailments to try and repair. A 20 year old car today would likely not be all that cheap, nor fun try and keep running for a young person new to wrenching. In 1987 my 14 year old Pinto, or my 11 year old Dodge Dart were simple vehicles. Bolt on parts and go. I did not know much about the words, scanner or diagnostics.

 

Young people today do drive. I see a lot of them in 2003 Honda Civics. Or Toyotas or some other Asian car. As repair parts and shipping costs continue to sky-rocket in price, do they more often just drive 'em to death and crush 'em? Missing out on all the wrenching we did as teens? These newer cars are not built to last that's fore sure. Car culture has evolved, much has changed. Perhaps as all the baby-boomers age, vintage car prices will fall?  Perhaps a new generation is waiting in the wings for price reductions? Maybe there is a large group on the cusp of taking over? We shall see. Already we know that there are few cars that can be restored for profits any more. Many old cars barely attract a sell price that will allow an owner to break even on new installed parts alone. Never mind body and paint costs.

 

I am a member of my local Vintage Car Club. I get my son involved whenever I can. He drives club owned vintage cars whenever possible. He respects and actually likes old, stock, cars. I will continue to try and keep hum interested. Also continue to try and attract interest in the club, from a younger generation.

 

IMG_1796.PNG

 

 

Two cars in my car collection I have owned since I was 17, one I bought used and the other I special ordered new. I got my love of cars from my Dad and my brother-in-law, then later in school. I was schooled in the Los Angeles Unified school district in the middle of the last century. In those days EVERY school boy, whether or not he was going to college or not had to have at least one semester of drafting, print shop, wood shop, metal shop, electric shop by the end of the 9th grade. The 3 year H/S was Wood shop, Electric shop, Auto shop, Machine shop, Welding shop, and again drafting. If you were going to college among the afore mentioned you would have had your algebra by the 8th grade and your first year of a foreign language  and geometry done by the end of the 9th grade. We also had the usual english, history, geography, music appreciation, art appreciation and P.E. for a total of seven periods a day.

 School in those day taught you how to use your head and your hands. Later on in life even if you didn't have a job in one of those fields you sure had a understanding and appreciation of what other people did for a living. What we got was a good foundation, but I'm afraid the kids growing up today do not have a basic background. My daughter-n law teaches H/S calculus and she can tell you if you take the calculator away the kids are lost.

 This leads us to the cars of the mid 70's to present day. Kids will have no problem dealing with OBD1, 2 and when it comes OBD3. The question arises will they know how to use the machines in the machine shop, or how to check the machinist work when the engine block come back after being sent out?

Todays car's aren't as complicated as you may think and the advantage is they can talk to you. For example today, my 2019 truck developed a ABS brake pulsation. Instead of having to check all the wheel sensors my scanner had already pin pointed that the rt rear sensor was at fault and upon inspection it revealed some road debris had been kicked up and damaged it.

 As said before in other threads that the problem of the long term future will have more to do with desire and ability of future car lovers,  parts being stored or more importantly reproduced, the price and availability of fuel, even attitudes of popular opinion of society looking down at people for owning such environmentally incorrect vehicles.

 

Just a note about the photo above; For over 60+ years owners manuals have said to never wash a vehicle in the sun.

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On 8/6/2019 at 2:10 PM, Steve_Mack_CT said:

This made my day.  I was coming back from the dealership a little while ago (for a noise they cannot seem to diagnose but that is an entirely different matter..) and I pull into our neighborhood.  A few houses down from me I see a kid in his early 20s with a 29 Chrysler roadster in about the shape my A is in, holding the carb in his hand walking around.  I stopped and we introduced each other, he inherited the car from his grandfather and it interested in keeping it running in stock form - maybe restoring someday.

 

Needless to say I am stockpiling some excess books, etc. for him.

 

Can we get this guy into the AACA Steve M, West or anyone else?

 

Yet ANOTHER car friend who is under 30 let alone 40 or 50.

 

turned my mood around instantly!!!  🙂

 

They are out there and starting to pop up and be noticed.  Read this article from the recent Concours of America at St John’s.  

 

http://americajr.com/news/2019/07/29/john-d-groendyke-bill-warner-honored-at-41st-concours-delegance-of-america/

 

Ben is 18, owns that car on his own, maintains it, drives it, and enjoys the heck out of it. He is also an instructor at the Gilmore Model T driving school and a member of the CCCA.  There is no AACA group in our Michigan area.

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I used calculus in College  about 35 years ago. I would also be lost if you took my calculator away. In High School in the mid 1970's we took the basics of slide rules etc. however calculators were just showing up. I had a 5 year gap between HS and Technical College , by that time calculators were completely dominant. So the pre - calculator generation is rather getting on these days. Lots of my generation involved with hobby cars despite our calculator crutch.

 

 

Greg in Canada

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4 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I used calculus in College  about 35 years ago. I would also be lost if you took my calculator away. In High School in the mid 1970's we took the basics of slide rules etc. however calculators were just showing up. I had a 5 year gap between HS and Technical College , by that time calculators were completely dominant. So the pre - calculator generation is rather getting on these days. Lots of my generation involved with hobby cars despite our calculator crutch.

 

 

Greg in Canada

You are missing the point. Without a calculator and not knowing how to use that calculator in your head anymore you are useless. It's like trying to build a house without a foundation.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry, I was just trying to point out that calculators have actually been a tool in the study of math for quite a long time. 

My Son graduated HS last year. I helped him with things like math and science home work as needed. I was actually quite impressed at both the breadth and depth of all the courses he was taking. Not just the core academics but all his HS courses.

We still have shop courses here in B.C. Canada. My Son didn't take much beyond the Jr. level wood and drafting; he is much more of a music person,  however at parent teacher night I could see there were quite thriving shop programs. I was briefly a shop teacher myself so I take a stronger than average  parental interest in what is going on in shop class.

 I know HS shop programs have been eliminated in some geographical areas, however a fair number do still exist.

 

 

Greg in Canada

 

 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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4 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Sorry, I was just trying to point out that calculators have actually been a tool in the study of math for quite a long time. 

My Son graduated HS last year. I helped him with things like math and science home work as needed. I was actually quite impressed at both the breadth and depth of all the courses he was taking. Not just the core academics but all his HS courses.

We still have shop courses here in B.C. Canada. My Son didn't take much beyond the Jr. level wood and drafting; he is much more of a music person,  however at parent teacher night I could see there were quite thriving shop programs. I was briefly a shop teacher myself so I take a stronger than average  parental interest in what is going on in shop class.

 I know HS shop programs have been eliminated in some geographical areas, however a fair number do still exist.

 

 

Greg in Canada

 

 

Greg, the point I was trying to make about the shop classes is when I went to school EVERY boy had to take those classes, not just the guys that would eventually be working in the trades. Also all the girls had to take home economic classes and as with the guys it didn't matter if they were college prep or not.

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Posted (edited)

It is still like that here except all students take all the classes. Wood working , drafting, electricity, foods, art, music. Both boys and girls rotate through all the grade 8 courses. After that the courses are elective. The students can pursue the areas they have interest in. HS is just too broad these days for everyone to take everything beyond grade 8.

 

Greg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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I took the Slide rule course two or three time in Jr. college and never did make any sense out of it.

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maybe if many in the hobby werent convinced any car built after ww2 isnt an antque

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10 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I took the Slide rule course two or three time in Jr. college and never did make any sense out of it.

They wouldn't let us use the slide rule during test. We had to use the calculator in our head. This showed them the brain was functional. 

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Oh yea, I could do math.

I recall the instructors suggesting that I may have been over thinking the contraption.

Even acknowledging that a slide rule is not a precise instrument.

I am still a bit anal.

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58 minutes ago, ted sweet said:

maybe if many in the hobby werent convinced any car built after ww2 isnt an antque

 

I kind of get it from an inclusion perspective.  But everyone simply is not interested in every subcategory.  My SL is whistle clean, and sorted end to end, largely by myself.  I get a lot of attention from those with similar interest on the road, and get ignored by other car folks - I get it.  I guess I am the same way.   The social aspect is a big thing in the hobby - many of us will say more than one realizes, but it starts with the common interest.   That said I try to encourage any kid with any interest in vehicles old or new.

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19 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Well, there are NOT antiques, no matter how hard you try to change the definition, but AACA will accept your dues payment every year. Bob 

 

What is an antique is subjective to the individual, I think that is the point that Ted is trying to bring forward.I have a tough time myself accepting late 80's cars as antiques. To my 30 year old son he remembers taking a trip to Florida with my in-laws in the the 1988 Celebrity Wagon when he was 6 years old. That car is an antique to him. He will be the first on to say that my other cars are nice but he can't relate to them, even though most of those cars have been in the house before he was born

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11 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

What is an antique is subjective to the individual, I think that is the point that Ted is trying to bring forward.I have a tough time myself accepting late 80's cars as antiques. To my 30 year old son he remembers taking a trip to Florida with my in-laws in the the 1988 Celebrity Wagon when he was 6 years old. That car is an antique to him. He will be the first on to say that my other cars are nice but he can't relate to them, even though most of those cars have been in the house before he was born

My 26 yr old son expresses the same sentiments.  His big issue with really old cars is spending big $$$ on a car that can’t travel at speeds greater than 50 mph.  Living in CA I can see his point. Mid 1950s on up is ok to him as these cars are capable of driving in today’s traffic.  

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49 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Well, there are NOT antiques, no matter how hard you try to change the definition, but AACA will accept your dues payment every year. Bob 

So when will a 30 year old car [example a 1989 Reatta] be considered an antique?

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7 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

So when will a 30 year old car [example a 1989 Reatta] be considered an antique?

When someone finds it 20 years from now in a barn covered in dust and sitting on 4 flat tires. :D

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

So when will a 30 year old car [example a 1989 Reatta] be considered an antique?

 

To somebody who was born around 1989 or later it will be considered antique or in 20 years as Laughing Coyote pointed out above. 

It just seems to be the nature most people in the hobby, if a person could have  bought the car brand new and drive it it is hard for many to consider it an antique

Edited by John348 (see edit history)

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