How to go about searching for a specific car...

[mrcvs]

Odd question, I know....

 

Went to Dad Awkscht Fescht this morning and after convulsing after paying the $9 entrance fee (x2), because the 1917 Maxwell needs points & a condenser, come to find out, the wife is okay with an early Jeep, one of 4 there was a 1948 Willys.  So, it's not the car in the yard that's an issue, but the type of car.  Later than I like...but if the wife likes it.

 

Hemmings tends to have stuff that can't sell locally.  My 2 old cars were not specifically sought for...found at the right price at the right time.

 

I always thought my next car might be brass era, simply a right car at the right price deal, but nothing specific.  And it might be, but how would you go about finding something cheaply in a "reasonable" amount of time...affordably?

[mrcvs]

I should add this is a "let's encourage this before she loses interest" question.

[JACK M]

You need THIS Jeepster.

Drive it home. Well, maybe.

We could work a deal.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by JACK M (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

How about a Willys Jeepster? There's a decent one for sale here on the forum and they are the most car-like of the early "Jeeps" so she might not object to the ride. I think Jeepsters are cool and they're probably the last of the true open 4-seaters so they're a little practical, too. Parts are plentiful, they're tough as iron, and repairs are easy. They're not designed for off-road work, but that's probably a plus since that makes them ride and handle better than the usual 4x4s. And, of course, my usual advice stands: pay to ship the right car home, don't shop local just because you don't want to pay for shipping.

 

EDIT: I see my friend Jack has already posted his Jeepster. That's the one I'd buy if I were you.

[JACK M]

8 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

I should add this is a "let's encourage this before she loses interest" question.

 

LOL. quick enough?

 

[JACK M]

I will quit now, I'm starting to feel cheap.

[mrcvs]

How  much?

[1912Staver]

Regular, early CJ's are very basic. Cute to look at , but unless you really are a "Jeep person " many shortcomings.  Slow, extremely short wheelbase so a very choppy ride , Spartan in the extreme. Sort of a 45 MPH golf cart.

 Jeepster's have a lot of the Jeep charm but are a much more practical choice.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited August 3, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[mrcvs]

I have to say I was really disappointed with Dad Awkscht Fescht.  $9 to get in is way too much for many who just have a casual interest, and I have more than a casual interest and thought it was steep.  Not enough EARLY stuff anymore.  For a dying hobby, to get in needs to be well under $5.

[TerryB]

15 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

I have to say I was really disappointed with Dad Awkscht Fescht.  $9 to get in is way too much for many who just have a casual interest, and I have more than a casual interest and thought it was steep.  Not enough EARLY stuff anymore.  For a dying hobby, to get in needs to be well under $5.

Did you have to pay to park too?  I remember parking in a field near the train tracks and paying $5 to park.  That was about 10 yrs ago.

[1937hd45]

Save up for Hershey admission is free. 

[TerryB]

5 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Save up for Hershey admission is free. 

Parking is far from free thanks to HERCO.

[mrcvs]

12 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Did you have to pay to park too?  I remember parking in a field near the train tracks and paying $5 to park.  That was about 10 yrs ago.

AND $5 to park!  $23 for two individuals, and one of them never wanted to be there to begin with!  This hobby is shooting itself in the foot.  How does it expect to increase interest amongst a millenial generation with little interest to begin with?  Need to make it free parking, $4 to get in, 2 for $7.50.

[TerryB]

1 minute ago, mrcvs said:

AND $5 to park!  $23 for two individuals, and one of them never wanted to be there to begin with!  This hobby is shooting itself in the foot.  How does it expect to increase interest amongst a millenial generation with little interest to begin with?  Need to make it free parking, $4 to get in, 2 for $7.50.

I’m sure the park charges them a fee they have to pay plus insurance for the event can be very expensive.  I don’t blame them for the price, actually it’s not too bad in today’s world.  And I understand paying your co-pilots fee, I have the same issue😀

 

Back to your question on Jeep.  This one is definitely not as nice as Jack’s but closer to where you live 

 

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/bedminster-1949-willies-jeepster/6933134767.html

[JACK M]

1 hour ago, mrcvs said:

How  much?

 

PM sent.

The only issue I have is if it is parked for more than a week or so it wants to be primed at the carburetor.

But starts right up with a prime.

No heater, very basic.

[TerryB]

Just now, JACK M said:

 

PM sent.

The only issue I have is if it is parked for more than a week or so it wants to be primed at the carburetor.

But starts right up with a prime.

No heater, very basic.

Yours is super cool!  Get a decent wool blanket like they used in the days of open cars and you’re good to go!

[JACK M]

I am motivated but have shown my lowest price.

I am just finishing a new house and could use some furniture.

[JACK M]

3 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Yours is super cool!  Get a decent wool blanket like they used in the days of open cars and you’re good to go!

 

I have not driven it in winter weather but in the cool of the evenings it gets plenty warm in there if all of the sides are in place.

[joe_padavano]

15 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

AND $5 to park!  $23 for two individuals, and one of them never wanted to be there to begin with!  This hobby is shooting itself in the foot.  How does it expect to increase interest amongst a millenial generation with little interest to begin with?  Need to make it free parking, $4 to get in, 2 for $7.50.

 

Apologies for veering off topic here, but seriously? Been to a movie lately? How much do you pay each month for cable? I find it hilarious that we alternately get people here who complain when participants in a car show are charged, and then we get complaints when spectators are charged. Try organizing your own show or swap meet, pay for a venue, pay for insurance, pay for advertising, pay for security support, pay for trophies, and then let people in for free.

 

As for the millennials, I have little sympathy for people who happily pay $7, $8, or $9 for a coffee-flavored milkshake from Starbucks every day on their way to work. That's not the reason why they don't care about the car hobby.

[60FlatTop]

I remember when those Baby Boomers were squandering their money on 45 RPM records, the soda fountain, and lining up their hard earned dimes on the pinball machine. THAT bunch had misplaced priorities for sure. Some even spent good money on the 1/25 model kits, shelves of them. Each successive generation has bred another group of ne'er do wells.

 

$9, can you imagine. And a couple of days ago there was a link to an article about an 87 year old man who worked in a gas station for 10 cents and hour. He saved up $50.00 and bought a 20 year old Model T Ford. By my figuring he worked 500 hours for that car. Yep, millennials ain't got the gumption he had. No appreciation for the value of hard work.

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, mrcvs said:

I have to say I was really disappointed with Dad [sic] Awkscht Fescht.  $9 to get in is way too much for many who just have a casual interest, and I have more than a casual interest and thought it was steep.  Not enough EARLY stuff anymore.  For a dying hobby, to get in needs to be well under $5.

 

I agree that the Macungie show used to be better--they have

had 1300 cars, and many more 1920's-and-under cars.

When they didn't keep all the early cars together, starting

about 10 years ago, that seemed to be the sudden end of

early-car gatherings there.

 

However, if one of the best Pennsylvania shows--with over 1000

antique cars, and no street rods, located in a beautiful tree-studded

park with music in the band shell--is disappointing, consider everyone

that lives in areas far removed from antique-car territory.

Some people have to drive long distances to see a show

with 50 cars, and pretty ordinary ones at that, parked on the

asphalt of a bank or office building.  Macungie is still good!

Edited August 3, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

This will only get better, without posting a reply. 

[mrcvs]

I will have to check out the Jeep in Bedminster.  My wife was thinking along the lines of $7500 max.

 

Spell check turned Das into Dad...

 

I "get" it that some folks will gladly pay $9 for a drink or a movie.  But the up and coming generation(s) find the drink or movie worth it.  If they generally think of old cars as just a bunch of old guys hemming and hawing over rusted steel, $9 is a hard sell.  Might as well have that drink or go to a movie.  At $3 or $4, it becomes cheap entertainment and perhaps "worth a look".

 

The spectators should be charged...yes.  I don't "get" charging those who bring a car to the show.  If enough folks say that's a ripoff, they don't show up, there's nothing to look at, and the spectators don't come either.

 

Was there early stuff there?  Yes.  But the pre 1920 stuff was sparse, mostly a few Model T's and a Dodge.  Really makes me think twice about going to it again, especially when the $9 doesn't really last that long...my copilot is hot and bored and asking "can we go yet?"

[mrcvs]

I should add one of the vendors was complaining about the low foot traffic because of the too high admission fee.  Lower the cost by at least 50% and triple the amount of foot traffic.  So it's not just me...

[TerryB]

The Mecum auto auction with 1200 cars is going on in Harrisburg PA the past few days.  I could be drawing some of the Macungie crowd to it.  If price was the only factor to attendance drop that would be easy to fix.

[John_S_in_Penna]

And the last I checked, the Mecum auction charges

$30 admission at the door, or $20 in advance.  And

that's just to look at the cars, not to bid.  They're

doing it for the money, while Macungie is staffed by

dedicated, generous AACA region volunteers.

[mrcvs]

I get it that it is staffed by volunteers, most who are very nice folks, and it is terrific that it is local and a wonderful way to spend a few hours.  I just see low foot traffic and not much young blood, so how do we change that?

 

Maybe the Harrisburg venue did draw some of the foot traffic this year?  Maybe you can charge $30 to get in the door somewhere, but that's the high end stuff.  Do I appreciate the high end stuff?  Sure!  But for me, in a household with a mortgage and student loan payments, an old car is going to be at the lower end.  I'm middle class, I have no choice.  My old cars are wants and not needs.

 

Having said all this, and my wife wouldn't agree, I think it was worth it just to see Nelson Rockefeller's 1960 Chrysler limousine and to learn about Chrysler's venture in Italy to produce the Chrysler Norseman, a concept car that went down with the Andrea Doria in 1956.  I appreciated that.  My wife, not so much.

[zeke01]

Back to the Jeepsters: I had one for 25 years or so. They are great antique cars. Floors can be rusty but they patch easily. The overdrive is simply and makes even the four cylinder peppy. Parts are still available and usually aren’t expensive. They are a lot of fun to drive and garner a lot of attention. As far as spousal enjoyment, my wife liked riding in ours as long as I didn’t forget and leave the side curtains at home. Zeke

[mrcvs]

9 minutes ago, zeke01 said:

Back to the Jeepsters: I had one for 25 years or so. They are great antique cars. Floors can be rusty but they patch easily. The overdrive is simply and makes even the four cylinder peppy. Parts are still available and usually aren’t expensive. They are a lot of fun to drive and garner a lot of attention. As far as spousal enjoyment, my wife liked riding in ours as long as I didn’t forget and leave the side curtains at home. Zeke

Okay, very good.

 

How's it ride, especially with what is observed to be a low seat set atop of a gas tank?

 

I'm trying to encourage this interest before it fades.  We will have to see what tomorrow brings.  She might very well change her mind.

[zeke01]

Jeepster gas tanks are at the rear of the car. The ride is okay. We aren’t talking about a Lincoln or LaSalle here. Remember the origins of the Jeepster. You can feel the road but the ride is head and shoulders above a Model A Ford. I should clarify that my Jeepster was a 1948. The sixties version was a different animal from the 1948-1950 units. Zeke

[John_S_in_Penna]

The Mecum auction is not high-end material.

[mrcvs]

14 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

The Mecum auction is not high-end material.

Could it be a matter of folks are willing to pay more because they can take something home with them?  $20 or $30 is a small percentage of the purchase price of a vehicle and you can own said vehicle forever.

 

$9 for the car show and all you have to show for it is faded memories.

 

I suppose if I had the space to collect many vehicles and a pocket full of cash, and the cars at Macungie were all for sale, the $9 to get in would be the admission price for a very fun day.

 

I might be very pedestrian, but I'd start wheeling and dealing on the unrestored 1912 Model T.

[C Carl]

But where o where are you going to keep the jeep ?  -   Carl 

[padgett]

I've always looked for specific cars: year (range) make, model, options (AC a must), sorta color (not black or metal flake) and every time I look, I find but mainly because while prefer local (title and license are cheaper, condition is usually better), I look everywhere. Current DD is high production - over 20,000,  usually are less.

[mrcvs]

47 minutes ago, C Carl said:

But where o where are you going to keep the jeep ?  -   Carl 

Indeed, that's an issue.  It will have to be parked on the street and probably in a few days even getting an early Jeep might be out of the question when she worries about "what will the neighbors think".  I'm trying to encourage something my wife is lukewarm on right now, which is better than before.  As she has a Jeep Wrangled, she was interested in the early Jeeps at the show.

 

I hate to have been so down on the Macungie show.  It's a wonderful thing for what it is, but I did state what I noted and thought and heard from others.

 

Seems like they increased prices to offset decreased attendance.  That doesn't work.  The State of Connecticut has tried for years to increase tax revenue by increasing the taxes on those remaining, and it drives more folks out.  Same thing here...

[thej63]

On 8/3/2019 at 9:15 PM, mrcvs said:

Could it be a matter of folks are willing to pay more because they can take something home with them?  $20 or $30 is a small percentage of the purchase price of a vehicle and you can own said vehicle forever.

 

$9 for the car show and all you have to show for it is faded memories.

 

I suppose if I had the space to collect many vehicles and a pocket full of cash, and the cars at Macungie were all for sale, the $9 to get in would be the admission price for a very fun day.

 

I might be very pedestrian, but I'd start wheeling and dealing on the unrestored 1912 Model T.

 

 

That mecum fee is for observation ONLY. To be a bidder costs between $100 - $500 depending on your ticket choice plus the 10% of the purchase price.

 

That being said, my wife and I both started attending Macungie only a couple years ago having just found out about it. We thought it was well worth the price of admission. The show we have trouble paying $10 per person is the new hope auto show. Not nearly enough cars there. For the number of cars that you get plus the swap meet, plus the fact that you can't put an event on like that for free, it's perfectly fair. We only wish we could have shown our car there before moving out of state.

[joe_padavano]

On 8/3/2019 at 7:38 PM, mrcvs said:

I just see low foot traffic and not much young blood, so how do we change that?

 

I submit that if admission were free, those problems would still exist.

 

Like it or not, the next generation cares far less about cars than we do. They complain about the high cost of entry (to the hobby, not to a show) and there is truth to truth to that. Popular cars regularly sell for stupid money. High schools have long ago dropped classes like auto shop (and wood shop, etc) in response to budgetary problems, so they lack the facilities and tools to learn the skills needed to execute a project car (as opposed to buying one already done). Compounding this, the next generation doesn't care about driving the way we did at their age. The fact that many wait years after they are old enough to get a license is telling. I was at the DMV the day after my birthday. Kids today don't need cars to "see" their friends, and frankly, their parents or Uber take them anywhere they want to go.

 

At the last few Carlisle swap meets there was plenty of foot traffic (despite escalating entrance fees) but no sales. Our generation is selling off projects we'll never get to and the next generation isn't buying them. Sorry, but get used to this trend. We're the last generation who will be so into cars. There will be members of future generations who are fans, but they will represent a much smaller percentage of their generation than we did. How many horse and buggy fans do you know today?

Edited August 5, 2019 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[lump]

On 8/3/2019 at 2:43 PM, joe_padavano said:

 

Apologies for veering off topic here, but seriously? Been to a movie lately? How much do you pay each month for cable? I find it hilarious that we alternately get people here who complain when participants in a car show are charged, and then we get complaints when spectators are charged. Try organizing your own show or swap meet, pay for a venue, pay for insurance, pay for advertising, pay for security support, pay for trophies, and then let people in for free.

 

As for the millennials, I have little sympathy for people who happily pay $7, $8, or $9 for a coffee-flavored milkshake from Starbucks every day on their way to work. That's not the reason why they don't care about the car hobby.

WELL said, Joe! 

 

My family and I produce the CARS & PARTS SWAP MEET & CAR SHOW events in Springfield, Ohio. They happen 4 times per year, with the spring event being the largest. Our COSTS to produce that spring event are in the lower 6 figures. And if we get rained out...we're left holding the very expensive bag! Fairgrounds rental: Roughly $25,000. PLUS electric, water, and gas if used. PLUS about a dozen off-duty sheriff deputies (some of them 24 hours a day), about 50 staff members, STAGGERING insurance costs, over 30 grand in advertising, golf cart rentals for staff (about 45 units), radio rentals for staff (about 50), traffic cone rentals (about 100),  plus all the equipment we must own and maintain all year  (hundreds of signs and other traffic control devices, golf carts, mini trucks for parts hauling, etc, etc), office staff for answering phones year around, and, well, you get the idea. 

[lump]

And after running this event for nearly 35 years, I can tell you that a few folks griped when the admission was $2. When we had to raise it to $3, a few folks got really upset...but most paid and entered anyway, grumbling all the way. Then when we went to $4, same thing. And again at $5, $6, and today at $8 attendees complained (our parking is free, by the way). But we have not ever noticed a sudden reduction at the gate immediately after a price increase. Just as you can longer buy a 57 Chevy convertible for $2,500, the cost of car-hobby life has risen. (And during this same time, our costs for renting that fairgrounds went from $3,500 to $25,000. Anyone can do the math). 

 

As for young people getting involved, in the chapter of AACA that I grew up in, people started asking me as a young adult what was needed to be done to attract young people to AACA monthly meetings, parties, and tours. I told them that we needed to have activities that young people like; such as swimming, volley ball or similar games, evening activities, and music when fit their tastes. But members quickly pointed out to me that many of our members were getting quite old, and wanted sedentary activities so they could participate. They needed places with easy access, no stairs to climb, and wanted any event to start early and end early in the day... Our holiday parties went from having games, prizes, visits from Santa Claus and late-night dancing to afternoons at a quiet restaurant, and some very quiet vintage music. Perfect for our much-loved and respected seniors, but hardly the kind of environment that would attract a young family with kids (or grandkids). 

[thej63]

21 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

 

I submit that if admission were free, those problems would still exist.

 

Like it or not, the next generation cares far less about cars than we do. They complain about the high cost of entry (to the hobby, not to a show) and there is truth to truth to that. Popular cars regularly sell for stupid money. High schools have long ago dropped classes like auto shop (and wood shop, etc) in response to budgetary problems, so they lack the facilities and tools to learn the skills needed to execute a project car (as opposed to buying one already done). Compounding this, the next generation doesn't care about driving the way we did at their age. The fact that many wait years after they are old enough to get a license is telling. I was at the DMV the day after my birthday. Kids today don't need cars to "see" their friends, and frankly, their parents or Uber take them anywhere they want to go.

 

At the last few Carlisle swap meets there was plenty of foot traffic (despite escalating entrance fees) but no sales. Our generation is selling off projects we'll never get to and the next generation isn't buying them. Sorry, but get used to this trend. We're the last generation who will be so into cars. There will be members of future generations who are fans, but they will represent a much smaller percentage of their generation than we did. How many horse and buggy fans do you know today?

 

I wouldn't say that's entirely true. A lot of my peers and those younger than me are interested in cars....just not the cars that typically frequent aaca events. Take radwood for example, that show has absolutely EXPLODED since it's debut. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug and there's a lot of people wanting to buy and collect and drive the cars of their childhood. I have a few friends who like the old muscle cars but most people I know are into cars of the 80s/90s and predominately imports.

 

To be honest, when I was first getting into classics I was drawn to the muscle car era and liked some of the cars of the 50s as well. I wasn't a fan of the 40s as they were too rounded and I saw cars of the early teens as incredibly boring / uninteresting. Since spending more time in the hobby however, my appreciation has grown to include everything. I own a '51 but the next car on my list is a 39. I'd love to own something from the late 20s as well. I've actually shifted away from muscle cars and find them to be boxy and boring now.

 

As much as I hate seeing cars of my childhood at shows (cars of the 80s/90s were largely terrible, boxy and under powered) there's still a place for them because of who they bring with them to the show. A lot of people that I've worked with over the years have never heard of a dusenburg or a cord or a kaiser, auburn, graham, etc. However, spending time around these cars can lead to appreciation of them. When a honda CRX shows up at a show because it's of age how about not publicly announcing that it's junk (you can think it all you want). That person that you're turning off to the hobby because of their interest in cars now could be interested in the cars that you appreciate later.