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Anyone know the origin of these radiator emblems?


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 I just won an auction on eBay for a set of miniature radiator emblems. They are apparently good copies of the actual emblems, though they are flat on the back and we're glued down. The seller thinks they may have been made in the 1960s , I'm just curious if anybody remembers these things being sold or what the origin of the maker is. I already had about a dozen in my collection ,  but this auction really piqued my curiosity. Based on the few emblems that I already have, I think these are probably cloissonne, for most of them. Thank you in advance

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Glad you got them.  The listing started at about $1400+ and stated they were genuine antiques.  I actually emailed the seller and wondered how he knew that.  I've  collected these pins and badges for a long time and there were several here I'd not been able to find yet.  I'm very familiar with the set-that's the way they were made, as a "collection" and they are reproductions.  There is no mounting studs on the pins, they are glued to the felt backing.  I explained that originals would have had the mounting studs or pins on them, and if they had been removed for mounting, that (in my opinion and that of other collectors) would greatly detract from their value.   Additionally, the vast majority of such items were originally marked on the back by the company that made them.  L.E. Grammes, Allentown PA, Bastian Brothers, Rochester NY,  Whitehead and Hoag are some of the several different companies who produced these as salesman's lapel pins, or as give-aways at early automobile shows (advertising items).   So, they were indeed sold as miniature radiator emblems, not sure what company produced them, but individually, they are still available and show up on Ebay often.  There are occasionally such pins that show up for sale that were removed from similar display boards and sill have the felt backing glued to them. 

Anyway- the seller acknowledged he did not really know if they were genuine or not, so he amended his listing and lowered his expectations.  It's a nice wall hanger but indeed, probably not much older than the 60s. 

Terry

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Awesome info, thank you so much Terry. I knew they weren't original, but they are still antiques of antiques so to speak. I have several other of these badges or pins in my collection, and the back pins were removed as well, but still the craftsmanship in the ones I have is incredible and comprable to a full-size badge. I think the lowered price was very fair. And certainly a very rare thing to find in a grouping like this

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5 hours ago, hanski said:

These miniature badges were available from Harry Pulfer at price of $1.00 each...enclosed is a poor picture of his catalog and list of the makes.

IMG_7057[1].JPG

Yup, that's it.   You could buy the whole collection or buy them individually.  The emblem display shown in the catalog is exactly the same as the display Basscaster bought.

Terry

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Mr Pulfer always carried his little book of Car makes with him, saw him and his book many tines at Hershey. Did get some  emblems from him occasionally.

Years ago at Hershey, rummaging thru piles of literature,  I found his little book, With his name etc and with his notes on colors and had written descriptions.

 

I had forgotten about the string he had thru the book as a loss prevention step, until I saw worn hole in it when purchasing it.

 

He was a neat little gentleman.

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I knew his partner, Bill WilIiams, who later ran the business prior to is passing several years ago.  Great folks. 

I wouldn't go so far as to call them "original."  I guess it's how you define the term. They are simply miniatures of car emblems, recreated in the 60s (and continuing today).   While it's true that miniature emblems were originally produced in the teens, twenties and thirties for use as salesman's lapel pins, or as advertising items given away at dealerships and automobile shows, the collection you purchased are modern reproductions. 

 

It's worth noting also that some of the earlier miniatures also were made as stickpins and I have a number of those in my collection also - marked on the reverse with the makers logo. 

 

The mounted pins you purchased were never really made by or for the automobile manufacturers they represent.  They are also known as "fantasy items" or "instant collectables."  They were created as a collectible item and were intended merely as a decorative or nostalgia item for an auto enthusiast.  Many of them are still available today and have been produced in large quantities,  strictly as collectors items. Unfortunately a load of them show up on ebay being advertised as "original" or "antique."  Just because they came out of an "old collection" or an "estate" doesn't mean anything.

 

In my opinion, an "original" item would be one that actually existed in the era it represents, not a later representation of it.  

 

Just enjoy it whatever it is.  It's a nice display and I'm sure it'll look great on your wall. 

 

Here are a few photos of some of mine.  I've been collecting for a long time and try hard not to buy anything except originals, although I do occasionally have a later reproduction given to me by someone with good intention, and I keep them-it's the thought that counts!

 

Apologies for the poor photos but was moving quick to get them done with my hand-held cell phone.  I've included a couple of pics of the reverse side showing mounting methods and some of the pin manufacturers markings on them.  Enjoy.

Terry

 

 

Pin group 1 my collection.jpg

Pin group 2 my collection.jpg

Pin group 3 my collection.jpg

Pin group 4 my collection.jpg

Pin group 5 my collection.jpg

Pin group 6 my collection.jpg

Pin group 8 my collection.jpg

Pin group 10 my collection.jpg

Pin back aide original Griffy.jpg

Pin back side original Whitehead and Hoag NJ.jpg

Pin back side original Bastian Bros.jpg

Edited by Terry Bond (see edit history)
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Those are great Bob.  Race related pins are seldom seen.  I do have a few watch fobs and medallions, and some of my favorites are the early BARC - Brooklands Automobile Racing Club pins.  They came in boxed sets including a members badge and two guest pins.  British of course, but a very historic race track.

Terry

 

Brooklands boxed 1909 set.jpg

Brooklands group 1.jpg

Brooklands group 2.jpg

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The original little emblems are fun to see, and so long as you realize what the difference is between those and the Pulfer pins I think his are good to see too.

 

Here are the original ones that I have collected over the years, there’s more that aren’t on my display because of space. I also have several watch fobs that are miniature emblems too...

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Very nice. I like that Pulfer Rambler script up there. Haven't seen many of those. I think these kind of miniature emblems and fobs are a very nice addition, and worthy of any serious collection. Especially when they are 50 years or older, which most are. In most cases they were crafted in ways that have been lost to today's processes for similar items.

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I think it’s a Bastion Brothers item, but it’s definitely marked. If you want me to, I’ll take it off and confirm that maker. There are some unmarked original pins around, but they are still able to get identified by their quality and style of mount. Rule of thumb: if it ain’t marked be VERY CAUTIOUS when buying!!!!!!!

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Terry or Bob, (or anyone)

 

 Have either of you ever located a Studebaker emblem from the late 1920s buses ? I've seen poor photos in literature, but have never seen a good photo of one. Would either of you gents have one you can share a photo of?

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

Edit: Fox is another company who made the Dodge Brothers emblems for late 20s early 30s trucks if anyone is curious..

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, basscaster said:

It sure looks like the style of those scripts on the catalog page provided above by hanski. Any idea of the maker?

Here are a couple of pics of my duplicate - as you can see from the photo of the reverse, they were made by Schwab in Milwaukee,  Wisconsin.

 

54 minutes ago, TheMoneyPit said:

I think it’s a Bastion Brothers item, but it’s definitely marked. If you want me to, I’ll take it off and confirm that maker. There are some unmarked original pins around, but they are still able to get identified by their quality and style of mount. Rule of thumb: if it ain’t marked be VERY CAUTIOUS when buying!!!!!!!

Money Pit offers great advice to collectors-before you spend money make sure it's the real thing.  As I've mentioned previously, these pins and watch fobs are being made today, some cleverly disguised to age them. 

Terry

Rambler front.jpg

Rambler back.jpg

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Regarding miniature versions of radiator logo emblems there were also a lot made for use on the cars as correct originals. Most are larger than those shown by the OP and were used on dashboards, engine parts, headlights, taillights and on two-piece radiator emblems as the logo mounted on separate backing plates. Some, but not all, have makers marks such as D.L. Auld, Fox Company, Robbins, and Bastian Bros.

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While trying to find more info on the Studebaker emblem used on late 1920's buses I came across this site. It has a TON of photos of emblems, logos and advertising that was used from different eras. I'm not much into Studebakers but have recently been studying buses from many makers of the time but thought I'd share this incase some of you may have an interest.


Warning! It's highly addictive and will sure to sidetrack the viewer from your normal daily duties...😉

 

https://myntransportblog.com/2014/10/24/studebaker-e-m-f-erskine-rockne-south-bend-indiana-usa-1852-1967/

 

BTW, in this photo below is the emblem/logo on the Studebaker buses I'm trying to find more information on. The logo is more horizontal than most Studebaker logos I've ever seen. If anyone has a better photo of the emblem I'd love to see it.

studebaker-model-g8-3.jpg

 

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Regarding miniature versions of radiator logo emblems there were also a lot made for use on the cars as correct originals. Most are larger than those shown by the OP and were used on dashboards, engine parts, headlights, taillights and on two-piece radiator emblems as the logo mounted on separate backing plates. Some, but not all, have makers marks such as D.L. Auld, Fox Company, Robbins, and Bastian Bros. 

DSCF3582.JPG

DSCF3584.JPG

Yes, a lot of them were used on glove-box doors, dashboards, etc.  I have several. They are usually distinctive as their mounting will be sturdier.  Usually a couple of pegs, threaded studs, etc.  Here is a wonderful pair of Stutz 8 headlight badges recently acquired. These have a fairly large diameter threaded stud attached to the back and are held on with a nut and washer.  There is also a small tab on the back that was used for proper alighment of the emblem.  The nearly identical emblem was also done as a stickpin, but the emblem itself is thinner and of course does not have the heavier mounting hardware the headlight badges do.  The stickpin is marked Bastian Brothers on the backside.  They certainly are great collectibles.  I like things that don't take up too much space.

Terry

Terry

Stutz pair.jpg

Sturz.JPG

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Beautiful. Agreed, that is one of the reasons I collect emblems and pins, because they dont take up too much space. I'm in marketing, and I also love the history or automobile logos and typography. In addition to hood ornaments, these are often the crown jewel that finishes off a car's look. Surprised more people dont collect these. We are a small group.

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If you like emblems, be sure to check Mike and Murray Shears website http://www.americanautoemblems.com/

They are based in England but have one of the best collections existing and are absolute experts on them.  We look forward to seeing them at Hershey every year.  You can subscribe to receive regular updates to their website.

Highly recommended.

Terry

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Mike and Murray have compiled a great site for reference. I recently sold a super scarce NOS emblem to Mike which was a duplicate one to my own collection and I was extremely pleased that he got it for his collection.

 

My Rambler is identical to Terry’s and also marked Schwaab, it hadn’t been off that display in at least 25 years...

 

30Dodge, you have a personal message with a picture of the emblem I think is the one you’re asking about.

 

I also have several miniature emblems from dashboards, headlights and etc, they have absolutely nothing in common with the original posting. Those were made as collectibles and are in no way to be confused as an original one. An interesting collection yes, but not like the originals in value or scarcity IMO.

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21 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

While trying to find more info on the Studebaker emblem used on late 1920's buses I came across this site. It has a TON of photos of emblems, logos and advertising that was used from different eras. I'm not much into Studebakers but have recently been studying buses from many makers of the time but thought I'd share this incase some of you may have an interest.


Warning! It's highly addictive and will sure to sidetrack the viewer from your normal daily duties...😉

 

https://myntransportblog.com/2014/10/24/studebaker-e-m-f-erskine-rockne-south-bend-indiana-usa-1852-1967/

 

BTW, in this photo below is the emblem/logo on the Studebaker buses I'm trying to find more information on. The logo is more horizontal than most Studebaker logos I've ever seen. If anyone has a better photo of the emblem I'd love to see it.

 

 

The rectangular emblem you refer to was used in 1931 only on the larger truck models. It has purple and white enamel and is pretty hard to find. In all my collecting years I have only seen two, I sold this one and have a better one saved.

stude1945.JPG

1jp2f2f_cu2v_l.jpg

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20 hours ago, TheMoneyPit said:

Tex, can you confirm that the maker was Fox? Mine was missing the stud and I soldered a screw over the mark but can see “The” on one side and “o” on the other.

 

No mark visible on my keeper but the one I sold was D.L. Auld.

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