Summershandy

Straight 8 engine overheated at idle

Recommended Posts

Cool, I just got my thermostat in. Is this how the configuration of thermostat and ring sit in the housing?

 

 

IMG_7953.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Benefits of AACA Membership.

17 minutes ago, Summershandy said:

Cool, I just got my thermostat in. Is this how the configuration of thermostat and ring sit in the housing?

 

 

IMG_7953.JPG

yes

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I trimmed the retainer ring flush to hold the thermostat in. It ain't stainless either or it wouldn't cut so easy. 

 

IMG_7957.thumb.JPG.ba816eabb7f0aace8375f6afe1ed0dfa.JPG

 

 

Good to see the ring can't actually fall into the cylinder hole even if you squeeze it and try.

 

IMG_7959.thumb.JPG.c2385c20e73987fa92a41b96c0d2b240.JPG

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything is put back together so I went for a cruise today. 82 degrees out. Cooling system worked well for an hour drive....until we went to a drive thru burger joint. It was slow today being Sunday. The temp gauge rose to just over 3/4 high. Started to drive again and the needle went back down. Guess I have to accept the fact this is how the engine's cooling system operates. But, I did just remember that last year I had removed the inspection covers thinking I could get more air flow. Think I'm going to try that next time. Wife & I think that in 1954, there were less cars, less lights, no car shows and no slow drive thru burger joints.....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought, hows the timing ? Wonder if a few degrees of advance might help. have you ever set timing with a vacuum guage ?

 

Beyond that maybe just bump the idle speed up a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds pretty normal. With old gauges, it's hard to know what's accurate and it sounds like those in your Pontiac don't even have actual numbers, correct? Drive it some more and you'll get a feel for what's normal and how it behaves and you won't worry about it anymore. As long as it cools off once you're underway and doesn't go critical sitting in traffic, it's all good. If the cooling system is in good order--and it sounds like it is--then it should reach a saturation point when it's sitting still where the radiator can reject just enough heat to stabilize at a certain temperature. It won't be as cool as when you're underway, but there will be an equilibrium point between the heat the engine is generating at idle and what the radiator can reject.

 

In addition to the vague factory gauge, I have a modern mechanical gauge with clear numeric markings on my '41 Limited and it's connected to the thermostat housing so I know it's as accurate as possible. Underway, it shows 160 degrees but if I get stuck in traffic, it'll go up to 190 or so, but it always stops there and goes no higher. Once I'm moving, back to 160 in a matter of minutes. I think that's pretty normal for any old car with a healthy cooling system.

 

I think you've got it solved. Now go enjoy!

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

With old gauges, it's hard to know what's accurate and it sounds like those in your Pontiac don't even have actual numbers, correct?

 

When I got the car it had an under dash aftermarket numbered gauge. I had installed a 180 degree thermostat and the gauge read 180-190 operating. 

I just dug out the work order for my rebuilt temp gauge and found this drawing at the bottom of the sheet which I hadn't noticed before. 

Guess this was part of Abbott's calibration. Wonder if the lines drawn were intentional because the line for the 190 degree is on the right side of the dash mark. That would mean 180 is smack dab in the middle to me. Also good to know what the hot mark reading is.

 

 

 

 

IMG_7964.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dang antifreeze weeps out from the housing and head now. I made so sure of the clean surfaces and added a super thin coat of sealant to the paper gasket. One surface side was a bit pitted so I wanted to account for it. After a heat cycle the bolts were able to tighten a bit more. Maybe the retainer is a little too long and preventing a perfect tight seal? It's not a major thing and I'm leaving it for now. I'll look at it again this winter when it's project time again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i was thinking that the retainer did look a bit too long after it had been trimmed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, pontiac1953 said:

i was thinking that the retainer did look a bit too long after it had been trimmed.

 

Took it to a show yesterday. Under a 5 minute line up to register. Drove around before I went home. Cooling system ran good. 

 

Checked this morning and the weeping coolant is very, very minimal. Actually is too hard to see against the dark green engine color. 

 

I'll take it apart this winter and file it down and clean up the surfaces again.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/18/2019 at 11:46 PM, Summershandy said:

 

Took it to a show yesterday. Under a 5 minute line up to register. Drove around before I went home. Cooling system ran good. 

 

Checked this morning and the weeping coolant is very, very minimal. Actually is too hard to see against the dark green engine color. 

 

I'll take it apart this winter and file it down and clean up the surfaces again.

 

 

 


couple of things. If it is weeping coolant then the cooling system it is not holding pressure, meaning it will be susceptible to boiling/overheating. Cooling system pressure is critical for maintaining proper temperature.


If there is pitting of the thermostat cover housing, then to surface it flat is easy. Best to use a perfectly flat  surface plate (glass is good) and some wet and dry grade paper and some water or engine oil.
 

Move the housing in a series of figure 8’s over the paper on the flat plate, continually wiping and checking the gasket surface of the housing. Add more water or oil to reduce friction and to flush away the removed metal.

 

Continue surfacing the housing until the whole of the gasket surface is clean and shiny and flat. With a new gasket and sealer, no more leaks!

 

It make take a few minutes or longer to resurface the housing, but it will give a better and more accurate finish than a file.

Just my two bobs worth 

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

It make take a few minutes or longer to resurface the housing, but it will give a better and more accurate finish than a file.

 

Thanks Rodney for the reply. I was referring to filing down the thermostat retainer. The housing never leaked before I installed the new OEM assembly. The housing is in pretty good shape with maybe one pit hole. I've since trimmed, cleaned and resealed it back up. If it does start to leak again, I'll be sure to make those surfaces new again!

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So after getting some drive time with my new 54 and reading some threads here.  I noticed my car is running 3/4 of the way on my temp gauge, so I started looking at the cooling system.  This is with an outside temp of 83F and we usually run over 100 most of July and August.  Using a heat gun I had I am seeing a 16-19 degree drop across the radiator.  Is that what you guys see?

 

Then I went to changed the radiator hoses rinsed out the radiator and refilled.  So I cruised again about the same time similar traffic temp gauge hovered slight lower between half and 3/4.  During my changing of hoses I did notice a lack of a Thermostat installed.  So I am working on remedying that shortly just waiting on the parts. I see conflicting ideas on if you need one but since it did I want to have it correct.

 

Here is my question what is the best way to determine if the water pump is the issue or the radiator?

 

In my other classics I just yank the old one and put in an aluminum unit,  I paint it black so with the hood down you cant tell.  Im not a crazy person.  But since a drop in replacement is kind of expensive, I want to make sure that is the right move.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Eaglekiller said:

During my changing of hoses I did notice a lack of a Thermostat installed

 

My engine never had a thermostat either when I got it. I can't comment on running without it because I never had it on the road until after one was installed. I figured if it was designed for one, there should be one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the information that used to be posted on the Early Times Chapter website, it is normal for these cars to run fairly hot.

 

There is a steel water tube to cool the exhaust valves. It inserts from behind the water pump. It can rust out causing the engine to run too hot. You can probably figure that out with the thermometer gun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If engines did not need a thermostat, the manufacturer would never ever have put one in! They are so conscious of saving money, that any extra cost must be warranted. A thermostat is essential to correct operating temperature!

there endeth the lesson.

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Bloo said, I pulled my brass distribution tube out as far as I could get it to inspect when I had the rad and pump out. Unfortunately I couldn't pull it completely out unless I started taking body parts off. I poked around with a cloths hanger making sure none of the holes were plugged either. I've got a few posts on my past heating issues. My straight 8 temp gauge sits around 1/2 way while cruising and slowly rises sitting at a red light. Once during a "parade" on a very hot day, I had my gauge max out until I turned off the engine. Had puking and bubbling coolant everywhere. Thought I had baked the engine. Those straights are tough as nails although I don't recommend pushing it that far. I've since installed a 6 blade fan which I haven't tested yet. I will be posting results when that day comes. 

 

IMG_6457.thumb.JPG.c7b02d058ff062a3887ccf2934ef8547.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Summershandy said:

What Bloo said, I pulled my brass distribution tube out as far as I could get it to inspect when I had the rad and pump out. Unfortunately I couldn't pull it completely out unless I started taking body parts off. I poked around with a cloths hanger making sure none of the holes were plugged either. I've got a few posts on my past heating issues. My straight 8 temp gauge sits around 1/2 way while cruising and slowly rises sitting at a red light. Once during a "parade" on a very hot day, I had my gauge max out until I turned off the engine. Had puking and bubbling coolant everywhere. Thought I had baked the engine. Those straights are tough as nails although I don't recommend pushing it that far. I've since installed a 6 blade fan which I haven't tested yet. I will be posting results when that day comes. 

 

IMG_6457.thumb.JPG.c7b02d058ff062a3887ccf2934ef8547.JPG

looks like your straight eight has the good brass water distribution tube, i'm waiting to hear how well the 6 blade fan performs for you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

If engines did not need a thermostat, the manufacturer would never ever have put one in! They are so conscious of saving money, that any extra cost must be warranted. A thermostat is essential to correct operating temperature!

there endeth the lesson.

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

 

All arguments be damned, that is a truth.   That is a truth in manufacturing since it started

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Summershandy said:

What Bloo said, I pulled my brass distribution tube out as far as I could get it to inspect when I had the rad and pump out. Unfortunately I couldn't pull it completely out unless I started taking body parts off. I poked around with a cloths hanger making sure none of the holes were plugged either. I've got a few posts on my past heating issues. My straight 8 temp gauge sits around 1/2 way while cruising and slowly rises sitting at a red light. Once during a "parade" on a very hot day, I had my gauge max out until I turned off the engine. Had puking and bubbling coolant everywhere. Thought I had baked the engine. Those straights are tough as nails although I don't recommend pushing it that far. I've since installed a 6 blade fan which I haven't tested yet. I will be posting results when that day comes. 

 

IMG_6457.thumb.JPG.c7b02d058ff062a3887ccf2934ef8547.JPG

When the water pump comes or I have to pull out the Radiator, I will definitely be inspecting that tube.  Been looking at getting a 6 blade universal fans that look some what original that I can black out to match.  Should install new thermostat next week, waiting on the collar.  Side note where did you source that Generator?  Note:  Called CPR and they are closed due to Virus currently 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would pull the rad, you can get a better look at the tube that way. I was also looking at 6 blade fans on ebay before Charles had one he offered. Generator was on the car when I got it. Too bad about CPR, I've purchased many thing from them. 

Mark

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Summershandy said:

I would pull the rad, you can get a better look at the tube that way. I was also looking at 6 blade fans on ebay before Charles had one he offered. Generator was on the car when I got it. Too bad about CPR, I've purchased many thing from them. 

Mark

 

23 hours ago, Summershandy said:

I would pull the rad, you can get a better look at the tube that way. I was also looking at 6 blade fans on ebay before Charles had one he offered. Generator was on the car when I got it. Too bad about CPR, I've purchased many thing from them. 

Mark

 

23 hours ago, Summershandy said:

I would pull the rad, you can get a better look at the tube that way. I was also looking at 6 blade fans on ebay before Charles had one he offered. Generator was on the car when I got it. Too bad about CPR, I've purchased many thing from them. 

Mark

cpr is accepting internet orders at pontiacparts.net

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sweet,  will give that a try, I have just always called

 

1 hour ago, pontiac1953 said:

 

 

cpr is accepting internet orders at pontiacparts.net

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Eaglekiller said:

Sweet,  will give that a try, I have just always called

 

 

rich plastino has told my facebook group that telephone orders will resume on april 29th

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now