valk

'41 engine compartment details

Recommended Posts

On 7/31/2019 at 10:28 PM, neil morse said:

Also, getting back to my original point, I assume you will concede that Doug's panels, while very pretty, are different than the originals.  He has created something that is "not correct," yet is accepted as such by the judges.  Regardless of how they were originally done at the factory, this is undeniable.  (See comparison below.)

 

Original glove box door

 

481488578_IMG_1509(2).thumb.jpg.56f11a52c1563b530e4a77c8535ee43e.jpg

 

Doug Seybold glove box door

 

dashpanel.thumb.jpeg.a283c298999f41d43fc85ae2748b48e1.jpeg

It would seem at first glance, that the bottom photos style of turning would be easier to reproduce or possibly less difficult would be a more accurate statement, given that none would be easy on the compound curves of the panels. Is it possible Buick had engine turned, flat panels and pressed them into shape, then also swaged them together with another panel? If you look closely at panels of the 1940 cars you can see, I think, even with my limited powers of observation, swaging around the holes where the holes for the gauges are placed in the panels. Just as a personal preference the top photo of the engine turning, which seems like what's also on aircraft panels Ive seen, is dramatically more appealing than the "straight", if you will, pattern on the lower photo. (Personal preference and subjective,  so not subject to evidencery proofs, as in judging), Maybe if someone had some documented provenance of the "straightline" pattern on an unequovically proven original car thru documentation and notory public, that would satisfy all as a judging standard, simple? Anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, carbking said:

One additional comment about carburetor finishes.

 

Maybe 25 years ago, we were approached by an owner of one of the  "Classics" to restore his carburetor for an upcoming prestigeous  auto show, one that was invitation only.  Cost was absolutely no object. The carbuetor was a Stromberg. I pulled all the prints and did a meticulous restoration. The day after the show, I got a call from an extremely irate customer. The chief judge, who happened to be the leading authority on this make of car (his father and uncle had worked at the factory, and another relative was a dealer) docked my customer a point because I had painted the automatic choke housing. That point was enough to drop him from first to third. I offered to send him a copy of the drawing, which I did. About a month later, I got a call that, after showing the judge the original drawing, the judge allowed as maybe it was possible that he could be wrong; but by then it was too late to change the order of finish. He was invited to return next year.

 

The point being: IF ONE IS PLANNING TO SHOW THE CAR IN A JUDGED COMPETITION, THE CRITERIA BEING USED BY THE JUDGING AUTHORITY IS ALWAYS RIGHT, EVEN IF IT IS INCORRECT! So if someone is planning to show their car, disregard my comments concerning carburetor finish, and use what it being accepted.

 

Jon.

I've never entered a judging competition but when I read the rules of one on this site, if I remember correctly it stated if you have evidence to support your work is correct then a judge can't rule against you. If I was to enter a competition I'd take every bit of supporting evidence with me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, valk said:

Just when I thought we had it....just got through speaking with Bill Anderson. He notes engines were tested before painting but not with using the engine fuel pump (and they are not red).  Engines were fed gas with some external source and if everything checked out, the block was painted and fuel pump installed.  What is not exactly clear is whether the fuel lines were installed but not hooked up  when the engine was tested and then painted.   Bill does not know definitively but suspects they were not. The picture of the Century red lines look factory correct in that they are shaped the right way, not bent, and have a clip holding them together - not an easy do-it-yourself look.  Not trying to pick a fight here, but I did notice Lawrence's pushrod cover is painted black and if this is not correct, and I don't beleive it is, than someone did some creative painting somewhere along the line. The fuel lines also look like they have been removed or at least moved around a bit and not in perfect factory configuration, like the Century, and this somewhat diminishes the argument that they were originally painted .  Conclusion: no definitive proof either way and one can point to evidence on both sides but the argument for leaving them unpainted seems a bit stronger in my view (until something changes). That said, either way would have to be acceptable from a judges POV.  

 

Issue #2 dash finish. Bill and some-other-guy-he-did-not -name are actively working on determining how these were done.  Preliminary findings are they were machine-turned and the process was complex starting with polished metal, machine turning the design, and either yellow or green tinted laquer or finish depending on the car. I'm just going to wait for his results.  If they were decals, you would think some enterprising restorer would make repros. 

 

Lastly, I'm surprised that we don't know more about these great cars and I urge fellow members to remember we are all after the same thing.

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm curious as to why Bill paints the shocks and brake backing plates silver when in the production photo they are clearly black. I'll email and see if I get an answer.

 

I have 1940 but they are very similar so I'll mention a few details to change in your engine compartment if you are wanting to go for a completely original look. 

The clamps on the hoses. The heater isolation valve. The earth connection battery to block and the oil cap. All can be brought from Bob's or CARS except the brass isolation valve. Some missing clips on the fuel lines too.

Matthew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mathew.

Regarding the following,  I simply could not resist. I received my copy of Bill Anderson's "Restoration Facts 1941 Buick" today and quickly rifled through it, great stuff.  On the back cover I noticed a color picture of an engine with, don't say it, UNPAINTED FUEL LINES!! This doesn't change my position, however, that they were indeed painted from the factory. Strongest evidence to me were the pictures from 2carb40 and the neat little factory clamp that held all 3 lines together. Greg, do you have any more engine pics of that car? It's a goldmine of info...

 

Also noticed both Bill's book and Greg's pic indicate oil filter canisters should be silver on '41s. Mine is a very beautiful dark blue with an red-orange top. Where did that come from? 

Thank you. Hope this isn't getting too tedious. 

Peter

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DSC00124b.thumb.jpg.a6f2cddd8ecad8cdc752

 

I'd say those are definitely painted fuel lines, very visible on the right-most engine. Dag-nabbit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, valk said:

Thanks Mathew.

Regarding the following,  I simply could not resist. I received my copy of Bill Anderson's "Restoration Facts 1941 Buick" today and quickly rifled through it, great stuff.  On the back cover I noticed a color picture of an engine with, don't say it, UNPAINTED FUEL LINES!! This doesn't change my position, however, that they were indeed painted from the factory. Strongest evidence to me were the pictures from 2carb40 and the neat little factory clamp that held all 3 lines together. Greg, do you have any more engine pics of that car? It's a goldmine of info...

 

Also noticed both Bill's book and Greg's pic indicate oil filter canisters should be silver on '41s. Mine is a very beautiful dark blue with an red-orange top. Where did that come from? 

Thank you. Hope this isn't getting too tedious. 

Peter

 

I may be wrong about your oil cap as your rocker cover is plumbed into the air filter which I'll assume eliminated the need for a breather cap.

1940 Buick Service Bulletin states the  the oil filter is painted aluminum. The first 1940 filters were black and they had a seam at the bottom but there were too many reports of leaks at the seam so they eliminated the seam and changed the colour to aluminum. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I'm confused,on my 35 I was told that the valve cover and spark plug cover was supposed to be black. I left my valve cover black but painted my spark plug cover green like the engine. I like the looks of it.I'm not sure about the breather tube,it's green now.Most pictures I've seen have valve covers painted the engine color so which is correct?Does it depend on the year?Greg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great pics of an original engine showing proper hose clamps, twist lines on the hoses, red fuel line, etc. Thanks Greg. 

Not to rub it in, but took this pic of a '41 at a car show today showing a remnant of red paint. It also had those neat little factory clamps holding the lines together which, again, convinced me the lines were original. 

 

Hung out with Dave Stovall and his really cool, nice '38 Century coupe with rare humungus safari driving lights. Probably a better name for these...

buickallgmshow.JPG

buickfuelline.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the painted fuel lines only pertain to 41 Buicks? How about other pre-war Buicks,like my 35. Greg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any familiarity pretty much ends for me with 1939 being my oldest Buick. The collection I photo only has 1941 as its oldest Buick. I dont know of any 1935s around my area, let alone original enuff to provide example for that issue. Sure wish I did, Cuz I luv the style! If the oppotunity comes, Ill photo for sure!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, valk said:

Great pics of an original engine showing proper hose clamps, twist lines on the hoses, red fuel line, etc. Thanks Greg. 

Not to rub it in, but took this pic of a '41 at a car show today showing a remnant of red paint. It also had those neat little factory clamps holding the lines together which, again, convinced me the lines were original. 

 

Hung out with Dave Stovall and his really cool, nice '38 Century coupe with rare humungus safari driving lights. Probably a better name for these...

 

Peter you won 3rd prize in our group! I took 2nd and Bill (next to me) took 1st.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The picture of the fuel line with a little bit of paint on it is of my unrestored '41 Special. Peter and I also found paint on the fuel line next to the air cleaner. At the nationals this year I was a judge on the team that judged the 41s. I judged the engine compartment. I did not take off for unpainted fuel lines but after reading this discussion and my own observations I don't have any choice. 

 

Cheers,

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave S, dang it! I'll get you next time, congrats on 2nd place....Dave B, wish I knew you were a bonifide judge,  would have been bugging you for details! See both of you at the fall Rockville show. 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...