1937hd45

Brass Era king pins & shackle bolts

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Restoring a Model T Ford is easy, call up Don Lang and get whatever you need, not so with a 1911 Hupmobile. I'll need to replace worm king pins and shackle bolts. Poked around on eBay thinking there would be something close to start with, or is there a ready source for needed Brass Car hardware? Bob 

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Please share what you learn and use as a resolution on your parts problem.  I ended up building all new shackle bolts for the Locomobile.

Al

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Bob, I ran into the same situation on my Maxwell. Local machine shop wanted thousands to make me new shackle bolts. King pins would have been more but luckily I found N.O.S. on eBay. Returning to my shackle bolts which I thought at 5/8 inches in diameter were a lot bigger than many later cars used I came up with the idea of turning them down to 1/2 inches and buying bushings I found online. Local machine shop did 1 bolt and said he burned up 3 bits and would have to charge many more hundreds of dollars to do the rest and he just wasn't interested in doing them. Frustrated I went down and bought a Harbor Freight mini lathe and a separate powered grinding attachment for less than it would cost to turn  half my remaining shackle bolts. Don't know if your Hupmobile has the same overbuilt bolts or not but in my case it worked out well in solving a problem I just couldn't justify spending the going rate on.

 

Howard Dennis

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First, take things apart and take measurements.  Diameters, bore, wear etc.  You might find that Model T stuff can be adapted, I know I did on the spider gears for my Model 20.

 

If that doesn't work, see if you can clean up (i.e. have a machine shop or friend machine existing parts past wear points) and install bushings, as noted.  I have a set of adjustable reamers, they are a big help when fitting bushings.  Just go to the catalogs and find the closest thing that will work...

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As trimacar says, first take some measurements. Start with the spring eye. Chances are you can find a bushing that fits. If the eyes weren't bushed, you need to ream them to the next largest standard size. That will determine the size of the bolt and needed. You may be able to use off the shelf bolts - that was often done in period and they rarely, if ever, used hardened or even particularly tough bolts. A second choice would be to use stressproof ground stock cut to length and threaded on both ends. It is really only a problem if you are intent in matching the original exactly. They often used what appear to be carriage bolts. That is doable but the stuff is crap and you'd likely have to ream the bushings to an odd size.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

As trimacar says, first take some measurements. Start with the spring eye. Chances are you can find a bushing that fits. If the eyes weren't bushed, you need to ream them to the next largest standard size. That will determine the size of the bolt and needed. You may be able to use off the shelf bolts - that was often done in period and they rarely, if ever, used hardened or even particularly tough bolts. A second choice would be to use stressproof ground stock cut to length and threaded on both ends. It is really only a problem if you are intent in matching the original exactly. They often used what appear to be carriage bolts. That is doable but the stuff is crap and you'd likely have to ream the bushings to an odd size.

 

 

 

Mine were so hard the only way to reduce them was grinding!

 

Howard Dennis

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Posted (edited)

That is very strange. Thus far I've only seen pins that were too soft. I'd hazard a guess and say they were surface hardened. That may have been done so they would wear well but not be too brittle which is what would happen if they were hardened through. In any case, hardened pins are not a necessity and almost certainly not needed. There is a company in Connecticut that sells thin wall steel bushings with graphite inserts that would probably be ideal for bushing spring eyes that weren't bushed in the first place. Then just a grade 8 bolt. That would be tougher than 98% of the originals.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Could you share the name of the company? Maybe Bob could check them out.

 

Howard Dennis

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7 hours ago, hddennis said:

Could you share the name of the company? Maybe Bob could check them out.

 

Howard Dennis

Yes! I'll like to know about that company. I haven't looked at the springs and shackle bolts on the Hup, but I don't think they used bushings originally, they will when I'm through. 

 

Bob 

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I'm trying to find it. The problem is I can't remember the name although I've bought from them

You might also try bronzebushings.com (that might be it) - they sell what they refer to as "spring eye bushings" which might be a better alternative.

 

jp

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I found it.

American Sleeve Bearing in Stafford Springs.

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Posted (edited)

There was an article about spring eyes in an early issue of either MoToR or Horseless Age that mentioned Napier had adopted a bronze bushing with a case hardened pin. I think it was in about 1905 - 1906 so it may have been that the method was later adopted by other makers. This was compared with using a soft pin and no bushing (the system I've seen most often). I thought of using the Napier system but modern alloys are so much better that I'm guessing you could eliminate the case hardening and just use a tough pin. I am thinking of using Stressproof because it machines easily and has good wear resistance. It's commonly used to make gears. If the pin and bushing were fit properly, they could be lubricated with heavy oil rather than grease. Also, before WWI these cars were being driven almost exclusively on dirt roads and the "dust" problem - which was a lot worse than our present day notion of dust - must have contributed to much more surface wear than we're likely to deal with today.

Edited by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)

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On 7/16/2019 at 6:54 PM, JV Puleo said:

I found it.

American Sleeve Bearing in Stafford Springs.

Thank you! I just checked their website, looks like they carry everything I'd need in bushings. Bob 

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Quote

 

I have  150 new old stock spring shackle from the 1910 to 1930  no numbers so send size  style to John Grunder 31 morningside dr  Torrington ct 06790 or call me 860 8060448 stutzl6 

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4 hours ago, stutzl6 said:

I have  150 new old stock spring shackle from the 1910 to 1930  no numbers so send size  style to John Grunder 31 morningside dr  Torrington ct 06790 or call me 860 8060448 stutzl6 

John, would you have any spring & shackle bolts that look like these with the drilled bolt and threaded end  that accepts a grease cup cap? If you do I'll have to get measurements from my Maxwell.

 

Howard Dennis

Page 73 - Copy.jpg

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hddennis  About half are 1/8 pipe thread in the end  . Most are with thread the same dia. as body Sent size   stutzl6

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