urraco8

Title needed and advice

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

 

Part of the trouble you are also having may be that you are dealing with a local DMV office where the clerk is trained to just type stuff into their computer.  You need some additional human intervention with a dose of common sense and the ability to make decisions that most local DMV clerks can't seem to provide in out-of-the-box situations like this.   Not disparaging DMV clerks but they are at the wrong end of the chain in matters like this.

 

Good luck, keep us informed so others can learn from your experiences.

Terry

This is so true. I got nowhere with the local or San Antonio office. Get the name of the regional director if you have to. 

 

And yes, a reconstructed title may may be a good option. Good points Terry!

 

Bernie also makes good points. Often the local office was easier to deal with. If their hands are tied, as it was for me with my titles, then I found the regional director was the only one who could help. It was quiet interesting that when, after our conversations, I followed his advice to mail in my paperwork and get a denial, then go the court route, my mailed in title apps to his office were surprisingly approved. 

 

Maybe my real advice is keep trying. They might just get to a point where they are tired of hearing from you? 🤷‍♀️

Edited by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

image.png.2a298e0e6e0d125371daa1fbe10315a6.pngI

 

Check some old James Cagney movies and learn how to hold your hands and ask for help with "My old car"                      "IM A YANKEE DOODLE DANDE..................................."

Edited by mercer09 (see edit history)

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Think about the image you present to the person running the window.

image.png.e663e38b7694a08653facf48a1617ab0.png

 

This guy won't go home with plates for his Vermont Craigslist Prius if there is an interlineiation on the title.

  • Haha 2

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Bernie is correct.  When I attempted to get a title for my 1914 Model T several years ago I went to DMV in Richmond, approached the counter and simply asked for some help getting a title for my 1914 Ford.  I had a photograph with me and simply showed it to the clerk who commented, "gee, that's a neat old car."  She then told me she had never handled anything like that before, and immediately went back to get her supervisor who explained the process.  It was a little different of course since it was a original antique vehicle, but she quickly came back with some forms to fill out.  Within an hour I had my title.

 

Your experience may be different and the process for titling a reconstructed vehicle will probably take longer, but by going to them and asking for help instead of asking for a title for a 1951 Studebaker, you'll be much better off. 

The DMV clerks all have their little "flow charts" and it all depends on where you enter the flow.  Sometimes what you ask for may not be available, and unfortunately there is often a lack of "creativity" available to those at the front desk, so simply asking for their help opens up many more possible solutions. 

 

As a VA resident I can sympathize as I hear lots of tales of woe, however by exercising the right approach, and using the info I provided previously I believe you'll be ok. 

Terry

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Much the same holds true for Florida though for a "constructed vehicle" they often want to see evidence that parts of at least three different cars have been used.

 

Only odd thing is that the local DMV will only make appointments for Orange (the other one) county residents.

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Posted (edited)

I just received an antique license plate which is legal in all 50 states, and registration for my 1901 Locomobile from the state of Vermont. Super easy and cost me $153. The plate is legal in all 50 states and it can be legally transferred to your home state. Once you have your home state plate, then you can apply for a title in your state, Vermont is non-title state on vehicles 25 years or older. They just see it as a state to state transfer and that would standard procedure, title application. Of course you'll need insurance for your state if required. Just fill out the form include the check and bill of sale and the plate and registration arrives in a few weeks. Make sure the declared value is somewhere near close to accurate. Or use the value on the bill of sale as long as it is realistic. If they think they are being jived, they just send your check back and you have to start over. They provide "antique" and regular license plates, the regular plate is a little more expensive IIRC. The key here is, you don't have to be a Vermont resident, some other states offer plates like this, but you have to be a resident of that state.

 

You need:

The Vin Number

Bill of sale

Pay the state sales tax

 

You don't need

Any title or registration

Insurance

To be a resident, any one in the US can do this through the state of Vermont.

 

Go to the Vermont DMV website and check it out, they are the only state out of the 50, that will do this. Sure saved me, the State of Michigan was telling me it was going to cost thousands of dollars for appraisals, bonded title and insurance to get my buggy road legal. If I can get a plate and registration on a 1901 vehicle that never had a title, anyone can. One additional thing I did have was a local police inspection to verify the VIN, I had it because the State of Michigan required it, the State of Vermont did not, that may or may not have helped. As 60 FlatTop alluded to above, say as little as possible and only provide information when asked at the DMV. And too, I'm naturally good at playing dumb, that helps :)

 

I was skeptical but it works.

 

-Ron

 

 

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)

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On 7/13/2019 at 9:12 AM, mercer09 said:

I can set you up for 199.

 

been doing this for 10 yrs now.............

 

rdz69@aol.com

 

write to my email

 

Thought these were for collector display only? not criminal activity?

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You get a title when you buy a car. If you didn't get a title you did not buy a car. You bought a bunch of parts.

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Your system will not work in PA.  To get a plate in PA you must first have a title. You cannot register a car in PA unless you can prove you are a resident of PA.

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We also don't have titles in New York under 1972. That being said, I can't believe your local DMV can't help. They must be able to tell you what documents you need such as registration, bill of sale etc. I though New York, DMV was bad.

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you boys do it your way and Ill do it mine.

 

Have titled many in PA and not a problem.

 

its called knowledge, which some of you just dont have............LOL

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criminal activity? always the doubting thomas...............

 

get over yourself.

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5 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

We also don't have titles in New York under 1972. That being said, I can't believe your local DMV can't help. They must be able to tell you what documents you need such as registration, bill of sale etc. I though New York, DMV was bad.

I had paperwork issues with several of my cars and NY DMV was very easy to work with.  New Jersey, on the other hand, was terrible to work with.  NJ MVC actually told me to go back to NY, get them give me a registration for it (pre-'73 car), then they'd use the NY registration to generate a NJ title.  That's exactly what I did.  The woman at NY DMV laughed about how ridiculous NJ MVC is.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

That being said, I can't believe your local DMV can't help. They must be able to tell you what documents you need such as registration, bill of sale etc.

 

Oh they were helpful, but all they can do is lay out the steps one needs to go through to obtain a registration.

 

In my particular case, all I wanted was an Michigan antique plate to daringly and legally drive my car in certain areas and during tours etc.

 

Through the State of Michigan I needed:

An inspection by the police department to verify the VIN number (I did that, cops were confused but cooperative)

Take the vehicle to an antique car dealer and get it appraised and pay that guy.

Apply for a bonded title and the cost of the title was determined by the appraised value

Get Michigan no fault insurance for the antique car through Hagerty.

Get the plate and pay the State sales tax on the vehicle per the appraised value.

 

Now you see why I just went the Vermont route.

Now I have a registration that I can transfer to Michigan, which I will do because the Michigan plate is good for ten years? I think, and the Vermont plate is only good for one year. And too, most states have a number of days that the transfer must be completed. That was the problem, the State of Michigan requires either a title or a previous registration, If neither exists refer to the grocery list of unpleasantness above.

 

As far as the Vermont plate not working in anyone's state, it works in every ones state. It would be no different than a person moving from Vermont to your state and they would do a transfer to that State. The plate is legal. Requirement by law is met in other words.

 

-Ron

 

This is the leather license plate I will eventually have on my car. State of Michigan allows registering an authentic style plate.

 

 

 

 

20180429_191630_Burst01 (Medium).jpg

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)

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14 hours ago, Brass is Best said:

You get a title when you buy a car. If you didn't get a title you did not buy a car. You bought a bunch of parts.

Caveat emptor.

 

Now...pay the money, spend the time and jump through your DMV's hoops.  It will be worth it if only for your peace of mind.  You don't want to spend money on your vehicle and then cringe every time a police car is behind you.

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10 hours ago, Locomobile said:

 

Oh they were helpful, but all they can do is lay out the steps one needs to go through to obtain a registration.

 

In my particular case, all I wanted was an Michigan antique plate to daringly and legally drive my car in certain areas and during tours etc.

 

Through the State of Michigan I needed:

An inspection by the police department to verify the VIN number (I did that, cops were confused but cooperative)

Take the vehicle to an antique car dealer and get it appraised and pay that guy.

Apply for a bonded title and the cost of the title was determined by the appraised value

Get Michigan no fault insurance for the antique car through Hagerty.

Get the plate and pay the State sales tax on the vehicle per the appraised value.

 

That process doesn't look unreasonable to me. A bother, yes, but not a major roadblock.

 

I am curious abot the following:

Did you have to pay Vermont sales tax?

Will you have to pay Michigan sales tax when you tranfer the registration?

Will you need insurance once you transfer to Michigan?

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/13/2019 at 7:12 AM, urraco8 said:

I need a Title for my 1951 Studebaker Truck. I have Bill of Sale but am having a terrible time getting Title.

After 68 years who knows where the Title is. This truck is a Hot Rod with 327 4 speed.

Please help if possible. Thanks. 

So, looks like there has been plenty of help and advice offered in response to your questions - please let us know what you've decided to do, where you are in the process and at least, how things are turning out for you. 

Curious to know where in Virginia you are?  There may be other AACA members near you who could help you navigate the system.

 

Thanks,

Terry

Edited by Terry Bond (see edit history)

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22 hours ago, mercer09 said:

criminal activity? always the doubting thomas...............

 

get over yourself.

 

It is sad that you sell titles. It only hurts the hobby in the long run.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

That process doesn't look unreasonable to me. A bother, yes, but not a major roadblock.
I am curious about the following:
Did you have to pay Vermont sales tax?
Will you have to pay Michigan sales tax when you transfer the registration?
Will you need insurance once you transfer to Michigan?

 

I have been through the Michigan process four times, first time was work, now it is a cake walk.

You have to pay sales tax when you apply for the title, what you paid.

Insurance is mandatory in Michigan to drive on the road, insurance not required if not driven.

Edited by 1950panhead (see edit history)

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10 hours ago, 1950panhead said:

I have been through the Michigan process four times, first time was work, now it is a cake walk.

You have to pay sales tax when you apply for the title, what you paid.

Insurance is mandatory in Michigan to drive on the road, insurance not required if not driven.

 

 It probably depends on what is being registered. Registering a 1901 vehicle that never had a registration or title anywhere is like trying to get the space shuttle road legal, no turn signals, no brake lights, no head lights, no seatbelts etc etc. The Secretary of state clerks around Detroit have all the glee and enthusiasm of a death row inmate, they are not interested in helping at all, they just lay down the law.  Even calling Lansing wasn't much help.  They have to go by the law.

 

Yes I'm aware of the sales tax and insurance requirement. Michigan would not honor the Bill of sale at all, they told me the procedure is because there was no listed value in the Blue Book, which they normally go by is to "Get it appraised and pay the tax on the appraised value", which is how the law reads, they totally ignored the Bill of sale. If you have an SOS that honors the price on the Bill of sale, you have a much easier to use Secretary of State than we have around here. I thought about going to another office away from the city. The Vermont plate with a transfer to Michigan was the easiest route due to the age and type of vehicle. .

 

-Ron

 


 

 

 

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Thanks for all your ideas. I am very frustrated, and I must say nervous about this problem. I am meeting with a local hotrodder on the first of the week. I will hold off doing anything until then. Thanks again.

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23 hours ago, 64avanti said:

I am curious abot the following:

Did you have to pay Vermont sales tax?

Will you have to pay Michigan sales tax when you tranfer the registration?

Will you need insurance once you transfer to Michigan?

 

 

Yes, Vermont sales tax paid on the value stated on the Bill of sale. Michigan ignored the Bill of sale altogether. I would have had to pay on the appraised value through Michigan which would have been quite a bit higher. About 10 or 20 times higher.

 

Sales tax on transfer? As I understand it, the Michigan historic plate requires no sales tax, just a small fee. Now if I apply for a title, they may charge sales tax then. It's all about how the law reads, the appraised value and bonded title is all centered around inability to prove ownership and to combat stolen vehicles, now with a registration, that proves ownership in the eyes of the state, to which their requirement states in regard to "Proof of ownership: Title or previous registration", so I'm understanding it will just be a transfer. Starting from scratch with nothing but the vehicle is very difficult. Something is better than nothing.

 

Yes, will need insurance to operate it on the road.

 

There is nothing illegal or underhanded about getting an out of state plate, trucking companies do it all the time. They register in the cheapest state they can find. Truck trailer registration cost varies wildly by state.

 

-Ron

 

 

 

 

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You cannot get a Maine title or tag unless you can show a title from the state the vehicle is currently registered in.

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12 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

You cannot get a Maine title or tag unless you can show a title from the state the vehicle is currently registered in.

 

This is some of the research I did before doing this:

 

From this page:

https://www.cartitles.com/title-option-2/

 

 

"If there has never been a legal title issued in your name you will need to have the legal owner provide you with their legal title document correctly signed over to you. Without the legal title signed over to you, your state’s DMV will not issue you a title even if you have a bill of sale or receipt for the purchase.

Solution: If you have purchased or acquired a vehicle and the prior title is not available, or the prior owner is not available, the least expensive option is to use an out of state title process to obtain your title.  If the vehicle is more than 15 years old (2004 or older), the State of Vermont will accept a basic bill of sale to transfer ownership to your name. The other 49 states do not allow for bill of sale to transfer.

  • You do not have to live in Vermont
  • The vehicle does not have to have come from Vermont
  • The bill of sale does not need to be from the last titled owner (can be from anyone)

Vermont issues a registration form of ownership for 15 year old vehicles. Since that is their version of a title, you can obtain this document in your name by paying the registration fee with just a bill of sale, and then present it to your state DMV who will then issue you a legal title in your name, in your state. This Vermont registration title you receive can be used in all 50 states including New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Colorado, New York, Louisiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Indiana, Oregon, Virginia, Nevada, Texas, Iowa, Michigan, Idaho. This process has been used by car collectors, auctions, and brokers for years to solve difficult title problems. "

 

 

https://dmv.vermont.gov/tax-title/vehicle-title

 

-Ron

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After reading all the comments I think the best solution would be to destroy any car with missing or questionable paperwork. And the destruction verified by a public official.

 

Bernie

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