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Title needed and advice


urraco8

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10 hours ago, Locomobile said:

 

Oh they were helpful, but all they can do is lay out the steps one needs to go through to obtain a registration.

 

In my particular case, all I wanted was an Michigan antique plate to daringly and legally drive my car in certain areas and during tours etc.

 

Through the State of Michigan I needed:

An inspection by the police department to verify the VIN number (I did that, cops were confused but cooperative)

Take the vehicle to an antique car dealer and get it appraised and pay that guy.

Apply for a bonded title and the cost of the title was determined by the appraised value

Get Michigan no fault insurance for the antique car through Hagerty.

Get the plate and pay the State sales tax on the vehicle per the appraised value.

 

That process doesn't look unreasonable to me. A bother, yes, but not a major roadblock.

 

I am curious abot the following:

Did you have to pay Vermont sales tax?

Will you have to pay Michigan sales tax when you tranfer the registration?

Will you need insurance once you transfer to Michigan?

 

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On 7/13/2019 at 7:12 AM, urraco8 said:

I need a Title for my 1951 Studebaker Truck. I have Bill of Sale but am having a terrible time getting Title.

After 68 years who knows where the Title is. This truck is a Hot Rod with 327 4 speed.

Please help if possible. Thanks. 

So, looks like there has been plenty of help and advice offered in response to your questions - please let us know what you've decided to do, where you are in the process and at least, how things are turning out for you. 

Curious to know where in Virginia you are?  There may be other AACA members near you who could help you navigate the system.

 

Thanks,

Terry

Edited by Terry Bond (see edit history)
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Quote

That process doesn't look unreasonable to me. A bother, yes, but not a major roadblock.
I am curious about the following:
Did you have to pay Vermont sales tax?
Will you have to pay Michigan sales tax when you transfer the registration?
Will you need insurance once you transfer to Michigan?

 

I have been through the Michigan process four times, first time was work, now it is a cake walk.

You have to pay sales tax when you apply for the title, what you paid.

Insurance is mandatory in Michigan to drive on the road, insurance not required if not driven.

Edited by 1950panhead (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, 1950panhead said:

I have been through the Michigan process four times, first time was work, now it is a cake walk.

You have to pay sales tax when you apply for the title, what you paid.

Insurance is mandatory in Michigan to drive on the road, insurance not required if not driven.

 

 It probably depends on what is being registered. Registering a 1901 vehicle that never had a registration or title anywhere is like trying to get the space shuttle road legal, no turn signals, no brake lights, no head lights, no seatbelts etc etc. The Secretary of state clerks around Detroit have all the glee and enthusiasm of a death row inmate, they are not interested in helping at all, they just lay down the law.  Even calling Lansing wasn't much help.  They have to go by the law.

 

Yes I'm aware of the sales tax and insurance requirement. Michigan would not honor the Bill of sale at all, they told me the procedure is because there was no listed value in the Blue Book, which they normally go by is to "Get it appraised and pay the tax on the appraised value", which is how the law reads, they totally ignored the Bill of sale. If you have an SOS that honors the price on the Bill of sale, you have a much easier to use Secretary of State than we have around here. I thought about going to another office away from the city. The Vermont plate with a transfer to Michigan was the easiest route due to the age and type of vehicle. .

 

-Ron

 


 

 

 

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Thanks for all your ideas. I am very frustrated, and I must say nervous about this problem. I am meeting with a local hotrodder on the first of the week. I will hold off doing anything until then. Thanks again.

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23 hours ago, 64avanti said:

I am curious abot the following:

Did you have to pay Vermont sales tax?

Will you have to pay Michigan sales tax when you tranfer the registration?

Will you need insurance once you transfer to Michigan?

 

 

Yes, Vermont sales tax paid on the value stated on the Bill of sale. Michigan ignored the Bill of sale altogether. I would have had to pay on the appraised value through Michigan which would have been quite a bit higher. About 10 or 20 times higher.

 

Sales tax on transfer? As I understand it, the Michigan historic plate requires no sales tax, just a small fee. Now if I apply for a title, they may charge sales tax then. It's all about how the law reads, the appraised value and bonded title is all centered around inability to prove ownership and to combat stolen vehicles, now with a registration, that proves ownership in the eyes of the state, to which their requirement states in regard to "Proof of ownership: Title or previous registration", so I'm understanding it will just be a transfer. Starting from scratch with nothing but the vehicle is very difficult. Something is better than nothing.

 

Yes, will need insurance to operate it on the road.

 

There is nothing illegal or underhanded about getting an out of state plate, trucking companies do it all the time. They register in the cheapest state they can find. Truck trailer registration cost varies wildly by state.

 

-Ron

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

You cannot get a Maine title or tag unless you can show a title from the state the vehicle is currently registered in.

 

This is some of the research I did before doing this:

 

From this page:

https://www.cartitles.com/title-option-2/

 

 

"If there has never been a legal title issued in your name you will need to have the legal owner provide you with their legal title document correctly signed over to you. Without the legal title signed over to you, your state’s DMV will not issue you a title even if you have a bill of sale or receipt for the purchase.

Solution: If you have purchased or acquired a vehicle and the prior title is not available, or the prior owner is not available, the least expensive option is to use an out of state title process to obtain your title.  If the vehicle is more than 15 years old (2004 or older), the State of Vermont will accept a basic bill of sale to transfer ownership to your name. The other 49 states do not allow for bill of sale to transfer.

  • You do not have to live in Vermont
  • The vehicle does not have to have come from Vermont
  • The bill of sale does not need to be from the last titled owner (can be from anyone)

Vermont issues a registration form of ownership for 15 year old vehicles. Since that is their version of a title, you can obtain this document in your name by paying the registration fee with just a bill of sale, and then present it to your state DMV who will then issue you a legal title in your name, in your state. This Vermont registration title you receive can be used in all 50 states including New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Colorado, New York, Louisiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Indiana, Oregon, Virginia, Nevada, Texas, Iowa, Michigan, Idaho. This process has been used by car collectors, auctions, and brokers for years to solve difficult title problems. "

 

 

https://dmv.vermont.gov/tax-title/vehicle-title

 

-Ron

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41 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

After reading all the comments I think the best solution would be to destroy any car with missing or questionable paperwork. And the destruction verified by a public official.

 

Bernie

I think that is the most common sense solution presented yet :)

 

-Ron

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We're all anxiously waiting to learn more about how you are doing on this.  Plenty of advice, including info on the options you have in following the correct process in Va.  Last we heard you were going to talk with a hot rod guy.  What did you figure out?  You never did indicated where in VA you lived. 

Terry

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, this thread started out to be interesting, since the OP is in Virginia, but it's now gravitated to page 5 without further response.  One of the biggest frustrations here on the forum is when someone asks for help, then just disappears.  We tried😧

Terry

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Is Broadway Title still in business?  They were in Alabama, a non title state.  You would sell

the vehicle to them on paper.  They would register it in Alabama, obtain a tag and License

Plate and sell the car with Alabama registration back to you with papers.  Re-registering and

titling  a vehicle from a non title state was easier in most states.  I have not seen their ads lately.

Are they still around?

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He's probably waiting on his vehicle registration and plate from the State of Vermont :) 

 

Some one mentioned in this thread about vehicles without titles aren't really vehicles i.e. collections of parts (?). Just to clarify, most states did not issue titles to up until the 40's and 50's, some still don't on cars over a certain age. Any car built before that period, unless applied for at that or later time, never had a title. The Title comes from the State, not the car company.

 

41 minutes ago, 48Firetruck said:

my Ohio title office called that "title washing" and said they would not accept Alabama "bill of sale titles" because of so much fraud.

 

That's because they were obviously asked beforehand. "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission" (Most times)

 

If someone is concerned about transferring to their homestate, shouldn't be a problem but if the DMV, SOS refuse, ask them to explain it in writing and sign it. Then just carry the Vermont reg, if you get stopped, go to court and show the Judge the DMV, SOS refused to honor the perfectly legal out of state registration for transfer. Asking them to state in writing why they won't would probably turn the tables on the spot.

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23 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

One of the biggest frustrations here on the forum is when someone asks for help, then just disappears.  We tried😧

 

Right in the bracket with asking how much a car is worth and then not telling how much they bought or sold it for.

 

My mother would have said "The old stinker wanted to know but kept it a secret from those who helped him". She died back in '02, but her term "old stinker" seems to pop into my head fairly often.

 

Bernie

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33 minutes ago, 48Firetruck said:

They told me to hire a lawyer($$$) to research and "prove" the trucks ownership history (how?)

 

How, exactly. What I did here in Michigan which was the first step up the mountain, was to get a Tr45? form, which is a Police inspection and to verify the vehicle VIN number, and I assume it is the Police department's responsibility to ascertain that the vehicle is not stolen. The station wasn't busy and I was there for quite a while and after about an hour the officer returned with a big smile on his face and said something to the effect "let's go verify the VIN and we'll be done". Signed his name on the form, attached his card and told me if anyone had any questions to contact him. I didn't ask any questions, he signed my form and that is what I wanted. I'm not sure what an Attorney could have done beyond that?

 

It was really disappointing after that, I thought it was going to be a piece of cake after the Police department, but when I went to the SOS, it all fell apart. By Michigan law they cannot issue a title on a Bill of Sale. Some are obviously doing it, but they aren't supposed to be. I called whom I initially spoke with, the nice lady in Lansing that originally acted like it was no biggie and she echoed what the local SOS said, get an appraisal and get a title bond (Without a title or previous registration, there is a barrier to overcome). That is where I gave up, I didn't want to pay thousands for a license plate on a vehicle I would only drive rarely.

 

Vermont was, fill out the form, include the legit Bill of Sale, include a check for the plate fee and tax and, bang! plate and registration came in the mail, easier than falling off of something. Now, the vehicle is registered to me in a state database with my home address, I have a legal registration and plate. I haven't tried to transfer it to Michigan yet, but I have to believe it's going to be less painful if/when I do. Something is always better than nothing.

 

This isn't "Title Washing". Title washing, is the act of cancelling out certain types of titles with damage remarks (assemblers, Flood damage, total wreck), by transferring to and getting a clean title in another state that will by their process, omit those remarks, for the sole purpose of increasing the value of the car and misleading a prospective buyer. It's fraud and it's a felony.

 

 

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I googled "transferring a Vermont vehicle to Michigan" and this is what i get:

 

It doesn't say anything about non-title states as the Vermont information stated, the "registration is the title"

How do I change my out-of-state title to a Michigan title and obtain a registration for my vehicle?

To convert an out-of-state title to a Michigan title, you will need to present your out-of-state title, proof of Michigan no-fault  insurance and proof of identity  at a Secretary of State branch office.  If more than one vehicle owner is named on the out-of-state title, all owners must appear at the branch office when the application for a Michigan title is made. An appointment-of-agent form  must be presented if one of the owners cannot attend. This will allow the other owner to sign on behalf of the absent person.

If your out-of-state title is being held by a lien holder, you may take your out-of-state registration (it can be recently expired) or proof of the out-of-state title to any branch office along with proof of Michigan no-fault insurance for the vehicle. Michigan will issue a "FOREIGN OWNERSHIP-REGISTRATION ONLY" registration for the vehicle. This will allow the State of Michigan to issue license plates without converting the out-of-state title

 

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4 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

You would sell

the vehicle to them on paper.  They would register it in Alabama, obtain a tag and License

Plate and sell the car with Alabama registration back to you with papers.

 

That I would never do, once that vehicle has been legally transferred to and titled and plated by someone else, there is virtually no way to get it back, . The court proceedings to recover that vehicle would be similar in difficulty to trying to prove the authenticity of a Howard Hughes will.

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