Title needed and advice

[urraco8]

I need a Title for my 1951 Studebaker Truck. I have Bill of Sale but am having a terrible time getting Title.

After 68 years who knows where the Title is. This truck is a Hot Rod with 327 4 speed.

Please help if possible. Thanks. 

[39BuickEight]

Where do you live?  Ask your local DMV.  Every state is different.

[caddyshack]

Check out the H.A.M.B., they have a good question and answer section related to Rods. You may find that having a bill of sale might not be enough for title purposes. Some states may want documentation for all parts used in the construction of the rod. Like 39Buick said, all states are different. Good luck.

[mercer09]

I can set you up for 199.

 

been doing this for 10 yrs now.............

 

rdz69@aol.com

 

write to my email

[R Walling]

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/what-is-a-bonded-title.html

[Lebowski]

38 minutes ago, caddyshack said:

Check out the H.A.M.B., they have a good question and answer section related to Rods. You may find that having a bill of sale might not be enough for title purposes. Some states may want documentation for all parts used in the construction of the rod. Like 39Buick said, all states are different. Good luck.

 

That stands for Hokey Ass Message Board. You can find their site at jalopyjournal.com. Good luck....

[charlier]

 

 

5 Common Mistakes Everyone Makes Getting A Bonded Title

[joe_padavano]

A summary of the registration and title requirement in each of the 50 states.

[60FlatTop]

I would have sent the $199 by now.

[urraco8]

Thanks for the replies. I live in Va. I know about the Bonded, You tube ideas, etc. I want to do this without getting in any trouble, or hassles. So far our DMV and State Police have been no help. Steve.

[cheezestaak2000]

2 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

A summary of the registration and title requirement in each of the 50 states.

thank you. very informative

 

[60FlatTop]

The path to permission is a tough row to hoe. Forgiveness is granted with an open hand and a warm smile.

 

Around here stuff you get caught doing has a $100 local fine and a mandatory $100 state surcharge. Now, for a guy looking to save a buck.....

 

Bernie

[64avanti]

20 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

The path to permission is a tough row to hoe. Forgiveness is granted with an open hand and a warm smile.

 

Around here stuff you get caught doing has a $100 local fine and a mandatory $100 state surcharge. Now, for a guy looking to save a buck.....

 

Bernie

Using a title that does not match the serial number or VIN is illegal in all 50 states. Your illegally titled vehicle can be confiscated as it is regarded as stolen.

 

In that case, you will be out well over $200.00.

 

Your car, your money, your life, your choice.

 

 

[mercer09]

here we go............................

[64avanti]

3 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

here we go............................

Don't shoot the messenger.😋

 

The OP may not be aware of the possible repercussions of not getting proper title to the vehicle; many people aren't.

[60FlatTop]

44 minutes ago, 64avanti said:

possible repercussions of not getting proper title to the vehicle;

 

Driving a car with a VIN on the car that doesn't match the title is blatantly stupid. Where, on earth the that idea come from, since I appear to be the OP. I didn't mention it.

 

Pretty fatalist thinking for a Sunday morning.

Bernie

 

 

[victorialynn2]

It is possible to get replacement titles in some situation. I got them for 3 autos. Every state is different as was previously stated. 

 

Not sure how Mercer does it, but you could speak to him and get some info, or check with DMV, which is what I did in Tx. 

[64avanti]

37 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

Driving a car with a VIN on the car that doesn't match the title is blatantly stupid. Where, on earth the that idea come from, since I appear to be the OP. I didn't mention it.

 

Pretty fatalist thinking for a Sunday morning.

Bernie

 

 

It was implied in several of the responses. I was responding to urraco8 as the OP.

Edited July 14, 2019 by 64avanti (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

3 minutes ago, 64avanti said:

It was implied in several of the responses.

We’ve talked about this on this site at length before. I don’t think anyone here thinks getting a title with an incorrect vin is a good idea. I think you misunderstood the responses here. 

[victorialynn2]

@urraco8, do you have a previous registration? What state was the car purchased from?

 

Some states like NH don’t title older cars. I was able to use a registration from NH, go to the DMV with it, and get a TX title.

 

Also had a car with an engine number that was used on a title. Was able to change it to a different number as the engine had been replaced. 

 

Also turned in a bill of sale for a car my dad had for many years, and some requested paperwork and got a title directly from DMV. 

 

Two of the cars I had a state inspector come and run the vins to make sure they were clear. Submitted those and some other documentation, as per the DMV. It took some time and I thought I was going to have to do bonded titles, but in the end I didn’t have to. By the way, there is nothing wrong with bonded titles and after a few years you can change it to a regular title. Also can sell with bonded title. 

 

I highly suggest you talk to your DMV or a reputable company who does bonded titles if that is allowed in your state. I’ve seen reference to titling cars through states that have easier systems, but I have no experience with that.  

Edited July 14, 2019 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

In Pa it is impossible to get a title legally for a car any other way than paying a lawyer around $1000 and waiting almost a year for a judge to order that a title be issued. Even then documentation as to previous owner or owners is needed.

[victorialynn2]

2 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

In Pa it is impossible to get a title legally for a car any other way than paying a lawyer around $1000 and waiting almost a year for a judge to order that a title be issued. Even then documentation as to previous owner or owners is needed.

I thought I was going to have to go this route in Texas. It would only have been a month or so, not a year. First I had to submit a request to DMV for a title and get a denial, though. Turns out, they gave me the titles. 

Point is that there are many possibilities, but since each state is different, it’s best to talk to the DMV. I didn’t just talk to the local officer either. The regional director out of Austin and I, had a few lengthy conversations. 

[Terry Bond]

I think a different approach may be worth trying.   It seems as though you are really looking for a title to a hot rod based on a Studebaker.  If you want it titled,  the way to make this easier for you may be to ask for help getting a title for a "Reconstructed" vehicle - a hot rod.  You may end up going to the DMV office in Richmond and speaking to a supervisor but a unique VIN will be assigned to the car and you will be issued a special tab to affix to the car someplace.  I've never done this but believe there also may be a requirement to have it inspected by State Police.  Below info is from the DMV Website.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/#reconstructed.asp

Definitions

Reconstructed Vehicle

Any vehicle that has been materially altered from its original construction by the removal, addition, or substitution of new or used essential parts. (VA Code § 46.2-100)

Specially Constructed Vehicle

Any vehicle that was not originally constructed under a distinctive name, make, model, or type by a generally recognized manufacturer of vehicles and which would not be otherwise defined as a reconstructed vehicle. (VA Code § 46.2-100) For example, a vehicle constructed using a Mercury frame and a Chevrolet body.

Replica Vehicle

Any vehicle not fully constructed by a licensed manufacturer, but either constructed or assembled from components. Such components may be from a single vehicle, multiple vehicles, a kit, parts, or fabricated components. The kit may be made up of major components, a full body, or a full chassis, or a combination of these parts. The vehicle must resemble a vehicle of distinctive name, line-make, model, or type as produced by a licensed manufacturer or manufacturer no longer in business and is not a reconstructed or specially constructed vehicle. (VA Code § 46.2-100)

Major Components

Any one of the following subassemblies of a motor vehicle: (i) front clip assembly, consisting of the fenders, grille, hood, bumper, and related parts; (ii) engine; (iii) transmission; (iv) rear clip assembly, consisting of the quarter panels, floor panels, trunk lid, bumper, and related parts; (v) frame; (vi) air bags; and (vii) any door that displays a vehicle identification number. (VA Code § 46.2-1600)

 

Part of the trouble you are also having may be that you are dealing with a local DMV office where the clerk is trained to just type stuff into their computer.  You need some additional human intervention with a dose of common sense and the ability to make decisions that most local DMV clerks can't seem to provide in out-of-the-box situations like this.   Not disparaging DMV clerks but they are at the wrong end of the chain in matters like this.

 

Good luck, keep us informed so others can learn from your experiences.

Terry

[Restorer32]

My brother needed a title for a 1949 Triumph auto. We tried every avenue to no avail. Finally an attorney was able to get him a court ordered title. I believe Pa is tougher than most states. Pa maintains that even if you are in possession of a car you do not own it unless you have a title. A bill of sale is meaningless without a title.  Sad that their thinking should be so brain dead here in the home state of AACA.

 

 

 

[60FlatTop]

I started working for my grandfather when I was 11 years old. He ran a modestly successful used tire shop and used car lot along a rural section of a major highway (The Honeymoon Trail) in western New York. My Dad warned me to be judicious in the things I learned in the shop.

Once he was telling me about pioneer days in the old west. He told me that the Indians had great taboos how anyone who meddled with people  not fully competent mentally. He then looked me in the eyes, nodded his head, and said "We would have made it to California". The motor vehicle department has its defenses up and waiting for the "smart" person who tells them the rules and quotes the law. They take pretty good care of the lost and confused.

There are many impediments to honest people in bad situations. I almost think that there are some vehicles out there where the VIN on the car and the number on the title are the ONLY things that match.

 

Avoid large metropolitan departmental offices. Drive a little further to a rural county office.

 

If you walk in the door and see a snarly nasty face on a counter service person, just leave. I have driven an extra 50 miles to be greeted by a friendly face and felt the trip was well worth it.

 

I have been prompted to mouth the right answers when I looked helpless.

 

When I stand at the service window I am at least 3" shorter than I will be walking into the coffee shop next door. I always wear my Navy ships hat.

 

Check some old James Cagney movies and learn how to hold your hands and ask for help with "My old car", don't call it by name unless it is a Chevy or Ford.

I wouldn't commit a felony, or fraud, but I can sure look like a helpless wretch if there is some clerical hurtle in my way.

 

Most of my teen age Saturdays were spent in the shop and we would make the auctions when I could stay out late.

 

Busy children and no grandchildren. No understudy.

Bernie

[victorialynn2]

3 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

 

Part of the trouble you are also having may be that you are dealing with a local DMV office where the clerk is trained to just type stuff into their computer.  You need some additional human intervention with a dose of common sense and the ability to make decisions that most local DMV clerks can't seem to provide in out-of-the-box situations like this.   Not disparaging DMV clerks but they are at the wrong end of the chain in matters like this.

 

Good luck, keep us informed so others can learn from your experiences.

Terry

This is so true. I got nowhere with the local or San Antonio office. Get the name of the regional director if you have to. 

 

And yes, a reconstructed title may may be a good option. Good points Terry!

 

Bernie also makes good points. Often the local office was easier to deal with. If their hands are tied, as it was for me with my titles, then I found the regional director was the only one who could help. It was quiet interesting that when, after our conversations, I followed his advice to mail in my paperwork and get a denial, then go the court route, my mailed in title apps to his office were surprisingly approved. 

 

Maybe my real advice is keep trying. They might just get to a point where they are tired of hearing from you? 🤷‍♀️

Edited July 14, 2019 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[mercer09]

I

 

Check some old James Cagney movies and learn how to hold your hands and ask for help with "My old car"                      "IM A YANKEE DOODLE DANDE..................................."

Edited July 14, 2019 by mercer09 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Think about the image you present to the person running the window.

 

This guy won't go home with plates for his Vermont Craigslist Prius if there is an interlineiation on the title.

[Terry Bond]

Bernie is correct.  When I attempted to get a title for my 1914 Model T several years ago I went to DMV in Richmond, approached the counter and simply asked for some help getting a title for my 1914 Ford.  I had a photograph with me and simply showed it to the clerk who commented, "gee, that's a neat old car."  She then told me she had never handled anything like that before, and immediately went back to get her supervisor who explained the process.  It was a little different of course since it was a original antique vehicle, but she quickly came back with some forms to fill out.  Within an hour I had my title.

 

Your experience may be different and the process for titling a reconstructed vehicle will probably take longer, but by going to them and asking for help instead of asking for a title for a 1951 Studebaker, you'll be much better off. 

The DMV clerks all have their little "flow charts" and it all depends on where you enter the flow.  Sometimes what you ask for may not be available, and unfortunately there is often a lack of "creativity" available to those at the front desk, so simply asking for their help opens up many more possible solutions. 

 

As a VA resident I can sympathize as I hear lots of tales of woe, however by exercising the right approach, and using the info I provided previously I believe you'll be ok. 

Terry

[padgett]

Much the same holds true for Florida though for a "constructed vehicle" they often want to see evidence that parts of at least three different cars have been used.

 

Only odd thing is that the local DMV will only make appointments for Orange (the other one) county residents.

[Locomobile]

I just received an antique license plate which is legal in all 50 states, and registration for my 1901 Locomobile from the state of Vermont. Super easy and cost me $153. The plate is legal in all 50 states and it can be legally transferred to your home state. Once you have your home state plate, then you can apply for a title in your state, Vermont is non-title state on vehicles 25 years or older. They just see it as a state to state transfer and that would standard procedure, title application. Of course you'll need insurance for your state if required. Just fill out the form include the check and bill of sale and the plate and registration arrives in a few weeks. Make sure the declared value is somewhere near close to accurate. Or use the value on the bill of sale as long as it is realistic. If they think they are being jived, they just send your check back and you have to start over. They provide "antique" and regular license plates, the regular plate is a little more expensive IIRC. The key here is, you don't have to be a Vermont resident, some other states offer plates like this, but you have to be a resident of that state.

 

You need:

The Vin Number

Bill of sale

Pay the state sales tax

 

You don't need

Any title or registration

Insurance

To be a resident, any one in the US can do this through the state of Vermont.

 

Go to the Vermont DMV website and check it out, they are the only state out of the 50, that will do this. Sure saved me, the State of Michigan was telling me it was going to cost thousands of dollars for appraisals, bonded title and insurance to get my buggy road legal. If I can get a plate and registration on a 1901 vehicle that never had a title, anyone can. One additional thing I did have was a local police inspection to verify the VIN, I had it because the State of Michigan required it, the State of Vermont did not, that may or may not have helped. As 60 FlatTop alluded to above, say as little as possible and only provide information when asked at the DMV. And too, I'm naturally good at playing dumb, that helps

 

I was skeptical but it works.

 

-Ron

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Locomobile (see edit history)

[Brass is Best]

On 7/13/2019 at 9:12 AM, mercer09 said:

I can set you up for 199.

 

been doing this for 10 yrs now.............

 

rdz69@aol.com

 

write to my email

 

Thought these were for collector display only? not criminal activity?

[Brass is Best]

You get a title when you buy a car. If you didn't get a title you did not buy a car. You bought a bunch of parts.

[Restorer32]

Your system will not work in PA.  To get a plate in PA you must first have a title. You cannot register a car in PA unless you can prove you are a resident of PA.

[46 woodie]

We also don't have titles in New York under 1972. That being said, I can't believe your local DMV can't help. They must be able to tell you what documents you need such as registration, bill of sale etc. I though New York, DMV was bad.

[mercer09]

you boys do it your way and Ill do it mine.

 

Have titled many in PA and not a problem.

 

its called knowledge, which some of you just dont have............LOL

[mercer09]

criminal activity? always the doubting thomas...............

 

get over yourself.

[Harold]

5 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

We also don't have titles in New York under 1972. That being said, I can't believe your local DMV can't help. They must be able to tell you what documents you need such as registration, bill of sale etc. I though New York, DMV was bad.

I had paperwork issues with several of my cars and NY DMV was very easy to work with.  New Jersey, on the other hand, was terrible to work with.  NJ MVC actually told me to go back to NY, get them give me a registration for it (pre-'73 car), then they'd use the NY registration to generate a NJ title.  That's exactly what I did.  The woman at NY DMV laughed about how ridiculous NJ MVC is.

[Locomobile]

10 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

That being said, I can't believe your local DMV can't help. They must be able to tell you what documents you need such as registration, bill of sale etc.

 

Oh they were helpful, but all they can do is lay out the steps one needs to go through to obtain a registration.

 

In my particular case, all I wanted was an Michigan antique plate to daringly and legally drive my car in certain areas and during tours etc.

 

Through the State of Michigan I needed:

An inspection by the police department to verify the VIN number (I did that, cops were confused but cooperative)

Take the vehicle to an antique car dealer and get it appraised and pay that guy.

Apply for a bonded title and the cost of the title was determined by the appraised value

Get Michigan no fault insurance for the antique car through Hagerty.

Get the plate and pay the State sales tax on the vehicle per the appraised value.

 

Now you see why I just went the Vermont route.

Now I have a registration that I can transfer to Michigan, which I will do because the Michigan plate is good for ten years? I think, and the Vermont plate is only good for one year. And too, most states have a number of days that the transfer must be completed. That was the problem, the State of Michigan requires either a title or a previous registration, If neither exists refer to the grocery list of unpleasantness above.

 

As far as the Vermont plate not working in anyone's state, it works in every ones state. It would be no different than a person moving from Vermont to your state and they would do a transfer to that State. The plate is legal. Requirement by law is met in other words.

 

-Ron

 

This is the leather license plate I will eventually have on my car. State of Michigan allows registering an authentic style plate.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Locomobile (see edit history)

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Brass is Best said:

You get a title when you buy a car. If you didn't get a title you did not buy a car. You bought a bunch of parts.

Caveat emptor.

 

Now...pay the money, spend the time and jump through your DMV's hoops.  It will be worth it if only for your peace of mind.  You don't want to spend money on your vehicle and then cringe every time a police car is behind you.