Roger Zimmermann Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Some people here do know that I'm building scale models. I did not a lot: a 1963 Studebaker Avanti R1, a 1966 Olds Toronado and a 1956 Continental Mark II. Each model is taking a very long time as they are scratch built; I had 9 years for the last one. When I was finishing the Mark II, I was thinking that it would be the last model. Fortunately, I'm still able to do something, but I will not tackle a 10 years project. Slowly came the idea to do something with Cadillac. One, if not the most prestigious model, was the V16. What I intend to do is a 1:12 scale rolling frame with the engine/transmission/suspension and steering. I would limit the MY from 1930 to 1933. 1934 have an independent front suspension; I have enough models with that type of front axle. My issue is to find enough documents/technical drawings and/or pictures to be able to conduct this project. Of course, dimensions are a must and I hope that one or more viewers have informations or could tell me who has some. If costs are involved, there is not a problem. Once, there was a V16 in Switzerland; I will have to research if the car is still in this country but most probably I will not be able to take from it all what I will need. Usually, shop manuals from that time have nice drawings from the mechanical features; this would be something to consider. Who will cooperate? Anyway, thanks for the help! For those who did not see my topic in the general forum, I'm adding some pictures from the Mark II model. I asked recently the same in the Cadillac LaSalle forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Hello Roger I have been following your 1:12 scale build of the Continental for over 5 years. I must say it has been more impressive than any full scale build that I have followed. I am in the process of restoring a 1932 V12. There are some things that the V16 may share with the V12. I also have service manuals for 1932/33 that I can scan images. I would be glad to help out in any way I can. Alex D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 Hi Alex Thanks for your comments. Right now, I'm in touch with two or three people who may help for data. It seems that there are substantial differences between 1930 - 31 frames and 1932 - 33 frames. One of my correspondants has a 1930 car, but I don't know if he can help with dimensions (I have funny experience with American people taking dimensions!) and somebody from Holland who restored 32-33 frames with many pictures he would share. Plus you with a '32 V-12 in a restoration process, which means that almost everything can be reach without too much problem... I'm presently searching the owner from a V-16 located in Switzerland; however, I don't know if the car is still "available". Yesterday, I ordered copies from the 30-31 shop manual as well as the one for 32-33, plus a parts book. It seems that those shop manuals are well detailed; when they are there, I will see what I will need from the "victims" As you saw from the Mark II project, it's not something which will be ready overnight. I'll let gather the information, enjoy summertime and hope to be ready to start later this year. Anyway, thank you for the offer to help. I will let you know how it's going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrizio Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Hi Roger, fantastic to see you jump in a new project! I have never posted here, but have spent countless hours reading your previous threads, with great admiration! I would gladly accept to be called a "rivet counter" in my restaurations and builds, and I had the extreme pleasure to find myself without anything to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 Thanks Fabrizio for the kind words! I hope you will still have some pleasure to follow this new project, even if you are not adding any comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 The ordered manual copies arrived yesterday. To me, doing a 1930 frame or a 1932 is not important at all, I'm just thinking at the information which is available. There is a 1930 V-16 in Switzerland; however, the owner is not living near the place the car is garaged. Therefore, I see difficulties to stay a whole day (or more) to measure the frame and the engine. A man in the Netherlands has a photograph file from the '32 & '33 he restored; this is certainly a good source. He sold recently a V-12 engine in Switzerland which will be more accessible. Alex is now restoring a V-12 from 1932 with a promised help. Therefore, I took the decision to do a 1932 frame (143" wheelbase) and engine. I'm now busy with a 1956 transmission and I hope that my '72 Coupe de Ville will be ready soon. The construction will effectively begin in Autumn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/15/2019 at 3:20 AM, Alex D. said: I am in the process of restoring a 1932 V12. There are some things that the V16 may share with the V12. Alex, why don't you show your project, here or on the Cadillac LaSalle forum? By the way, looking at the parts book is very interesting, but a bit boring!. Even if the engine stayed the same for many years, there are changes between generations (A, B, C, etc.) Finally, even if few parts are identical, some are the same, no matter if the engine is a 8 or a 16 like steering knuckles and front hubs. Water pumps from models 370 A, B, C are the same as V-16 A and B. Maybe other small parts too, but of course, with 4 cylinder less, the main parts are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 7/29/2019 at 7:20 AM, Roger Zimmermann said: Alex, why don't you show your project, here or on the Cadillac LaSalle forum? After about 5 years I’m in the middle of my restoration. The engine is rebuilt and running. I just installed the exhaust from Waldron and I’m impressed at how well it fit. Now I am now working on the body preparing it for paint. I will do what I can to supply you with the pictures and dimensions you may need for your 1:12 scale. Alex D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 Thanks for the pictures; I suppose most of the work is behind you. Upholstery; if still to be done, is not so complex, just expensive! The wheels are red; will they stay like that? Do you already know which color the car will be? Right now, I have several little things which are slowly "cooking". I hope to be in a position to tell in 10-12 days what is in the back burner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Roger The car was originally all black. I have had my fill of black cars so I will be deviating from original on the paint. I will be going with a dark gray on the fenders and upper (same gray as chassis) and a lighter gray on the lower body with red wheels. The upholstery will be a big expense since it is something I cant do properly. Alex D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 I just have one black car, I know your pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 At the end of last week, I drove 600 miles one way to measure and take pictures from a restored frame and engine. During 1 and half day, I was over and under that frame to measure all what I could. I was amazed how complex those cars were build during that time. Just the hand brake has an impressive number of parts when 20 years later a cable or two did the job. Same for the mechanical service brakes; to me, it's a wonder that all those bits were usable! There were still missing parts on that assembly: no air cleaners, the radiator is still to be overhauled and was not installed. Therefore, I may ask once for some dimensions, but for the next few months (years?), I'm set. The story about this construction will be related in my tread located in "our cars and restoration projects", continuing the Continental Mark II story (and the other ones too!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Roger I’m glad you were able to find a chassis with engine installed. Due o the complexity of all the linkage for the brakes it would have been almost impossible to photograph and measure with a body installed. My Cadillac is my first and I was advised to run from this project and run fast. I have never been one to heed to good advice. Alex D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 Yes, Alex. I was not aware about this complexity. It will be probably the most important expense for the model, but I don't regret it; it was the sole opportunity to see the engine and frame alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Alex, may I ask you a favor? As I wrote the other day, I did many pictures from that restored frame. There was one wheel, still to be cleaned and painted; I did also pictures from it but I missed the relation between the front and the rear spokes on the hub. If you look at the attached picture, there is a good view from the front spokes, but unfortunately, the rear ones are in the dark! What I would like to have is a similar picture, taken perpendicular to the wheel from about the same angle but where both rows are visible at the attachment point on the hub. For that, the camera must be a tad lower in direction to the center of the wheel. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Roger I believe these are the images you are looking for showing the relation between the front and rear spokes as attached to the hub. Also included a photo of the backside of the wheel. Alex D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Perfect Alex! I do appreciate a lot. Anyway, it's all the time better to do pictures on a clean/painted part, but I had not the choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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