1932 Cadillac 355 Convertible Coupe Update!

[alsancle]

59 minutes ago, RTRyan said:

Well, I am the happy new/recent new owner of this car in the topic header.  Is it still 1932 Cadillac convertible coupe?  I have  3 grands for the rumble seat.  They will remember the first drive.   A few minor tune ups being done including a recoring of the radiator.  A 1932 Cadillac which set in storage for 40+ years and needs the radiator recored?  Outrageous.  It is a beauty and now is happy to be on the east coast with working wind wipers.  More questions to come and sources for parts.  Great car and great history thanks to recent caregivers. 

Yes, just saw.  My first post.  I was recently a Jag guy.  My 2013 CTS-V got me off Jags.

 

A really nice car at a good price.   Enjoy it and keep us posted with your adventures.

[rg171352]

On 12/8/2020 at 8:13 AM, alsancle said:

 

 

My FAVORITE hotel in the world.   Was just there in the fall for my wife's birthday.

 

 

Where is this hotel?

[alsancle]

20 minutes ago, rg171352 said:

Where is this hotel?

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g46031-d92144-Reviews-Omni_Mount_Washington_Resort-Bretton_Woods_New_Hampshire.html

[95Cardinal]

22 hours ago, RTRyan said:

Well, I am the happy new/recent new owner of this car in the topic header.  Is it still 1932 Cadillac convertible coupe?  I have  3 grands for the rumble seat.  They will remember the first drive.   A few minor tune ups being done including a recoring of the radiator.  A 1932 Cadillac which set in storage for 40+ years and needs the radiator recored?  Outrageous.  It is a beauty and now is happy to be on the east coast with working wind wipers.  More questions to come and sources for parts.  Great car and great history thanks to recent caregivers. 

Yes, just saw.  My first post.  I was recently a Jag guy.  My 2013 CTS-V got me off Jags.

Welcome to these forums and congratulations on a wonderful purchase!

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by 95Cardinal
removed duplicate text (see edit history)

[27Stude]

Didn't see anyone mention it, the "big brother" sold for over 1mil

[RTRyan]

I'm late giving an update.  I added Pilot Ray lights and took out the piston with a hole on top.  Correct spelling of "engine rebuild" ?  Happy New Year

[Ovalrace25]

Failed piston! Wow! 

[RTRyan]

Yes! But . . . Only 1 of 8.  Made it back to shop on 7 . . .  well little blue smoke exhaust.  Thank heavens for the "laisser derriere" as the French say.  After almost 90 years of no cosmetic surgery  my innards might look like this also :>).

Edited December 31, 2021 by RTRyan
addition ask for picture (see edit history)

[trimacar]

So, the original car listed for sale had a bad engine?  But early in postings seller stated he removed pan and head for a customer inspection?  I’m confused….

[Ovalrace25]

4 hours ago, trimacar said:

So, the original car listed for sale had a bad engine?  But early in postings seller stated he removed pan and head for a customer inspection?  I’m confused….

Removing pan and head does not reveal the condition of each piston or ring land. I am the one that removed the head and pan and I did not remove any pistons. Cylinders look good-- had good compression on all eight. We had OLD notes from the owner that did the restoration, but since he had long passed, there was no additional information we could get from him... The condition of this car was like any other car that had been sitting for many years-- A big guess as to quality of work or how every detail was considered during restoration.

 

I suggest that since this one piston broke and from the looks of it, I would expect it was a ring land fracture, I would want to inspect this piston for ring land wear and decide if all the ring lands in all the pistons need to be inspected. 

[trimacar]

Ok thanks for clarification.  I’ve always thought that old cars are like peanuts, may look good on the outside, but not sure of condition inside until opened up…..

[RTRyan]

4 hours ago, Ovalrace25 said:

Removing pan and head does not reveal the condition of each piston or ring land. I am the one that removed the head and pan and I did not remove any pistons. Cylinders look good-- had good compression on all eight. We had OLD notes from the owner that did the restoration, but since he had long passed, there was no additional information we could get from him... The condition of this car was like any other car that had been sitting for many years-- A big guess as to quality of work or how every detail was considered during restoration.

 

I suggest that since this one piston broke and from the looks of it, I would expect it was a ring land fracture, I would want to inspect this piston for ring land wear and decide if all the ring lands in all the pistons need to be inspected. 

Yes, agree 100% with Ovalrace25 and other comments.  Similar to going to my local doctor for a followup after sleeping for 40+ years. Before winter here found a few things that needed attention (re-core radiator no surprise, water pump-generator chain repair and 3rd gear kept popping out - trans shift rod had been put backwards years ago, maybe years when used as a tow truck).  But about 10 miles into an autumn pleasant drive (yes, a fun and beautiful driver, top speed  safe 50 mph) the heart attack.  The 32 engine not the 32+ driver.  Wish it was just 1 bad piston, but after 40+ years resting, and even some of the recent refurbishment, no one could detect  or know the history before early 1970s.  The rebuild notes, from late 60s-early 70s drawings, including details of screws, 80-90% new oak and ash wood framing and more, done by the meticulous engineer restorer were very thorough and car was on front page of the "Self Starter" in mid 70s.  But in all the notes and documents I found no mention of any rebuild of engine.  After heart attack, exam of crank, bearings and pan looked fine, but taking head and block to machine shop showed rust in block (in addition to the "holy" piston) and head water gallerys and Magnaflux at machine shop showed a number of cracks in head  (years as tow truck?)  so a number of  welds (below) showed up, so it is now on it's way to be a full beauty, with a new beautiful heart.  Yes, a complete rebuild with "new" heads and block.  A bit after a Happy New Year, but it will be even more beautiful with its new heart.

 

Finally a technical question.  The Pilot Rays are a terrific addition to the look, I think much better on a 32 than a 31.  But where is the switch placed for the lights?  I've not been able to find any dash photos of 32 with Pilot Rays and where switch is.  Also added the 2 accessory switches in the dash for the wiper motor which was a rebuild.  All engine pieces which needed it will be chromed and re-porcelained and interior wood refinished and varnished.  A new heart with pretty nail polish.  Now about that Pilot Ray switch.  

Should we move this comment train to a new topic or can we edit out the "for-sale" title : >).

[edinmass]

Several comments........the valves in the car are original/early replacements from their design. They should be replaced along with the guides. Do NOT install new valve seats. Using a modern ring package on new pistons will give much better service. Usually the Cadillac V-8 main bearings are intact, but rods often delaminate so it’s usually best to just do them all. Small end bushings in the rods tend to work loose.......don’t trust them. Cylinder banks often have lots of issues.........don’t weld on that engine......just stitch it. While you are in that deep.......clutch is a must. It’s a great car....best of luck.

[edinmass]

While it’s out.......flush the radiator and get a flow check done........40+ gpm is required.

[ericmac]

I am delighted to see that this car wound up with a member of this forum.  Congrats!

[rcr]

Ovalrace25: I had many dealings with a great gentleman, John Walton as he helped me with my 341B roadster. I was wondering what the build sheet  shows as the original color scheme. Thank you

[Ovalrace25]

14 hours ago, rcr said:

Ovalrace25: I had many dealings with a great gentleman, John Walton as he helped me with my 341B roadster. I was wondering what the build sheet  shows as the original color scheme. Thank you

Build sheet says blue with black fenders. If I pull the copy of the build sheet, it will give me a color name. I dont have the file in front of me right now. I do remember when I saw the combination was black and blue, we considered going back to that combination. Keep in mind, the two color green that John did to it was in very poor condition. Huge chunks had lifted. I could easily pull 3 inch squares of paint off by hand if they had not already come off.

[rg171352]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:33 PM, Ovalrace25 said:

The condition of this car was like any other car that had been sitting for many years-- A big guess as to quality of work or how every detail was considered during restoration.

This is something people lose sight of too often.

[Ovalrace25]

12 minutes ago, rg171352 said:

This is something people lose sight of too often.

Yes, very true! Discovery during tear-down is always an education! Walton's car had a shop rag over rusted out gas tank cover with fiberglass and bondo over the rag. Very strange way to deal with a rusted panel! Engine block had a poor quality repair (probably from a rod going through it) that seeped oil. Wood and other body panels were very good.

I dont know where the car is these days.

[RTRyan]

On 1/1/2022 at 3:56 PM, edinmass said:

While it’s out.......flush the radiator and get a flow check done........40+ gpm is required.

Hi,  Yes we did that first few weeks after some drives.  Bit of steam and then some work found thermostat and vanes were not working so a re-core was necessary.  No big surprise for a 32 which even with nice restore in 70s, had been sitting undercover for 40+ years.  Lots of rust in block and head water channels and cracks and old welds, only show up with everything removed and Magnaflux.  Sure not fault of seller.  Big plus is to have all the records of engine rebuild to go along with all the documented work done by original owner/restorer in early 70s.

 

Any idea of my question on the switch/wiring for the Pilot Rays we have added while the engine is out?

Thanks

[edinmass]

The heads and blocks should be pressure tested to 40 psi. They should not leak. Welding on heads usually causes additional cracking........never weld, stitch. Freeze plug landings can rot and erode, so when you try and set new ones in place you can suffer block cracking and failure. Use care when setting in new core plugs. Probably should do the water pump also. They tend to suck air on 32’s.........so modern seals are a better option than the packing of days gone by. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

I'm frankly shocked by the buyer being so cool with buying a car with so many hidden needs. People buy cars from me and call to complain that one of the tires was 5 PSI low and demand cash compensation. If I sold this car, I'd be buying it back or worrying about litigation right about now... 

 

Why don't the reasonable people ever buy from me?

[Ovalrace25]

36 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I'm frankly shocked by the buyer being so cool with buying a car with so many hidden needs. People buy cars from me and call to complain that one of the tires was 5 PSI low and demand cash compensation. If I sold this car, I'd be buying it back or worrying about litigation right about now... 

 

Why don't the reasonable people ever buy from me?

Matt, I was the one that sold it. It came out of long time storage in a building near the San Francisco Bay. I was not the owner. I was asked to get it running and nothing more. ONE person that came to look at it thought it had a bit too much valve noise. So I pulled the heads, and manifolds, opened up the valve cover boxes photographed all the areas, flushed out jackets and took before and after photos of all those areas. And put it back together. Along with the copious 40 year old records, there was not much more to do unless we restored the entire car. It did sell for a very low number and many were surprised at the sale price. But the car was described as clear and fully as possible and I told all those that looked at it every detail I know and shared with them some if not all the records.

You know yourself that everyone has an opinion. Sometimes sharing personal opinion may be done without complete understanding of all the background.

BTW, the person that requested the engine be opened up for more info, came back into the picture too late. He asked me to see if the car would still be available and/or if the current owner would sell the car to him if it was not satisfactory. Current owner told me he was quite happy.

 

Time for us all to move forward.      

[Matt Harwood]

12 hours ago, Ovalrace25 said:

Matt, I was the one that sold it. It came out of long time storage in a building near the San Francisco Bay. I was not the owner. I was asked to get it running and nothing more. ONE person that came to look at it thought it had a bit too much valve noise. So I pulled the heads, and manifolds, opened up the valve cover boxes photographed all the areas, flushed out jackets and took before and after photos of all those areas. And put it back together. Along with the copious 40 year old records, there was not much more to do unless we restored the entire car. It did sell for a very low number and many were surprised at the sale price. But the car was described as clear and fully as possible and I told all those that looked at it every detail I know and shared with them some if not all the records.

You know yourself that everyone has an opinion. Sometimes sharing personal opinion may be done without complete understanding of all the background.

BTW, the person that requested the engine be opened up for more info, came back into the picture too late. He asked me to see if the car would still be available and/or if the current owner would sell the car to him if it was not satisfactory. Current owner told me he was quite happy.

 

Time for us all to move forward.      

 

You misunderstand my post--I was congratulating the new owner for being a reasonable, realistic antique car buyer instead of one of the petty complainers who buy from me expecting a lifetime warranty. Old cars suck, they're gonna stab you in the back, but only one guy in 100 understands that. Fortunately, you found that one guy.

[edinmass]

Simple formula for buying pre war cars............if it’s a Pebble Beach first in class winner last year, it will need 50k to make it go down the road correctly. Any pre war car is a roll of the dice. Expect to spend twice what you paid before you enjoy it. And two years time. How do you beat the system? Easy, buy a car that just did 1000 miles the week before on tour. It’s NOT about the purchase price......it’s about the number to make it 100 percent reliable turn key car. The most expensive car you will ever own is the one you bought that was a good deal. I recently sold a 40k car for 65........because it was perfect, needed nothing, and the new owner drove it 300 miles over three days before he pulled the trigger......he was smart...........he bought a finished tour ready car........and at 72 years old, he understood the value of a great car...........you can make more money, you can’t buy time..........I sold my 1932 Pierce coupe a few years ago, and the current owner has 6k plus miles on it. He still thanks me for selling it. Buy a good car.......not a good deal. 

[edinmass]

Pre war car rule of thumb......if the repair estimate is 10k and seven month, figure 30k and two years. Read this ten times over......commit it to memory, and buy great cars.........they are MUCH less expensive. How do you find great cars? Hire a consultant.........and there aren’t too many good ones. Lots of eBay and internet experts out there with a fake resume............ buy a car from a collector who actually drives their stuff..........

[alsancle]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Pre war car rule of thumb......if the repair estimate is 10k and seven month, figure 30k and two years. Read this ten times over......commit it to memory, and buy great cars.........they are MUCH less expensive. How do you find great cars? Hire a consultant.........and there aren’t too many good ones. Lots of eBay and internet experts out there with a fake resume............ buy a car from a collector who actually drives their stuff..........

You are way too optimistic.

[Matt Harwood]

Ed, can you just come hang out at my shop and tell that to people when they walk in? They don't listen to me, I'm just a shifty used car salesman, but maybe they'd listen to someone else telling them that there's no free lunch and these ain't new Toyotas.

[Ovalrace25]

10 minutes ago, alsancle said:

You are way too optimistic.

Example is here in my shop now. I dont want to offend anyone so I will describe it as a very high end open car recently purchased from a well-known Arizona auction. Buyer had someone at the auction inspect the car--- Car arrived running, but down on power and smoking. Compression test showed one dead cylinder and the rest, not good. Car had been hit in back at one time, poor patch panel over damaged metal and totally disconnected from the rear passenger floor. Right rear fender bowed out about 2 inches. Rear panel required new fabrication of the outer apron, inner support and passenger floor and of course the right fender had to be rebuilt. We made patterns using a properly restored car in a private collection. I have no idea why the person at the auction could not see this. Front fenders at bumper openings had been reworked and rough cut for bumper attachment, with openings covered by rubber fillers. There are pictures of this car on the internet. They look pretty good.

[alsancle]

49 minutes ago, Ovalrace25 said:

Example is here in my shop now. I dont want to offend anyone so I will describe it as a very high end open car recently purchased from a well-known Arizona auction. Buyer had someone at the auction inspect the car--- Car arrived running, but down on power and smoking. Compression test showed one dead cylinder and the rest, not good. Car had been hit in back at one time, poor patch panel over damaged metal and totally disconnected from the rear passenger floor. Right rear fender bowed out about 2 inches. Rear panel required new fabrication of the outer apron, inner support and passenger floor and of course the right fender had to be rebuilt. We made patterns using a properly restored car in a private collection. I have no idea why the person at the auction could not see this. Front fenders at bumper openings had been reworked and rough cut for bumper attachment, with openings covered by rubber fillers. There are pictures of this car on the internet. They look pretty good.

Pictures Lie. Every car is worse than it looks and most are much worse.

[edinmass]

All of the above is why good cars seldom come up for public sale or auction. Collectors in the clubs know the truly good cars and speak up for them before they are for sale.......

[RTRyan]

Wow!  lots of comments on my experiences and being "1 in 100" and only "collectors" in clubs know good cars and more.  Yikes!  I bought the rare 32 Cadillac from the owner, via Ovalrace25 with eyes 99% wide open.  Yes, would have liked to see the photos of the heads, piston and block after Ovalrace25 opening the 40+ year old tomb.  Did I think I was buying a 99.5 point Pebble Beach queen.  NO, of course not!  I once rode in a rumble seat (c. 1954) in a wooden spoke (maybe Pierce-Arrow?) beauty with another grandson of my grandfather's neighbor, and never forgot it.  Wanted to have my grands have the thrill of riding in a piece of history in a rumble seat.  Young grandson, I took  picture of, when it arrived coast to coast, said, "Can you pick us up from school in this?'.  The answer is of course, YES!  That's what this is about.  Or not?  OK  I've sent Ovalrace25  an off line note with no complaints.  Yes,  BaT write  ups say "reportedly" had an engine rebuild. treat "reportedly" as gospel or "allegedly" without documentation?  Never seen "reportedly?  Was paint on block and heads cleaned and  Magnaflux done by seller to show no cracks or welds from 60+ years ago?  I knew the first (or was it fourth?) lover of this car wrote a great documented piece for Cadillac "Self Starter detailing his find and the rebirth . . . alas in need of a heart transplant as I, now we discovered.  Am I a babe in the woods?  No, I'm a car guy who my spouse thinks/knows I'm nuts.  Should I have flown coast to coast to meet a classic beauty with great bones and body, but maybe not capable of going all out with a heart that had only recently been brought back to life?  Should Ovalrace25 have written in our exchanges, "I did CPR and sounds like life again . . . but no guarantees"?   Maybe . . . for him to say.  Have any of us disclosed 100% of everything we know about every car we have every sold?  "Yes, it's beautiful, but let me show you the pimples".   Could I have done simple open heart, replaced few pistons, repainted the 50 (at least) year old welds and cracks and sent it out into the cruel world of BaT?  Naw!  I'll know by spring I have the prettiest mate for miles around and with a documented new heart and 3 giggling kids in the rumble seat that will remember their rides much more than a trip to Pebble Beach.  RTR

[RTRyan]

On 1/12/2022 at 2:29 PM, edinmass said:

All of the above is why good cars seldom come up for public sale or auction. Collectors in the clubs know the truly good cars and speak up for them before they are for sale.......

Well, as I wrote, I'll have a beauty with a new heart and documented by a well know surgeon.  Ed, about the Pilot Rays.  Did any of your 30-32 Cadillac have them?  If so where was the switch or was the wiring added into the light switch in the steering wheel?    Here is an image from the 32 Cadillac accessory booklet with "my" car with the Pilot Rays.  Better look than on the 31s but just my opinion.  Thanks for any help

[edinmass]

Interesting page from the accessories catalog, I have never seen it. Testing my memory, the 32’s has a spare power pin to turn on the accessory front lights when the high beams were on if memory serves me. 1930-1931 did not. I’m going back over thirty years from the last time I did electrical work on a 32 Caddy switch. I put a 32 switch on a 31 for somebody......can’t remember if they wanted the extra power connector or there was no 31 switch available. They draw a lot of amps.......so you need to be careful that the switch you use is heavy enough. DO NOT take power off the key or ignition circuits or you will have nightmare problems. A relay is best if you hook up to the dash lights. Personally, I would never have them on any car......I can’t stand them. They were insanely rare pre 1938. We have them on our Stutz DV 32, it’s the New York Auto Show car.......and we have a photo showing the light on it from new.........since it was delivered that way, it stays on regardless of weather we like it or not. We don’t change history.......and we don’t add to it.....or detract. The religion of purity is what we practice in our garage. 

[alsancle]

I'm really impressed you turned that engine around so quickly.   Typically if you can get it done within a year I would consider that well done.

 

If you are taking a poll,  bring the pilot rays to Hershey and put them on your table.  They will look better there.   Your car looks great as is.

[prewarnut]

On 1/11/2022 at 7:49 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Why don't the reasonable people ever buy from me?

 

Matt, give me two years when I have better garage space. I could blow my inheritence on your 16 but that would be instant divorce....

 

To RTR, Kudos on the investment. You must be a Vascular Surgeon given your analogies...😁

[ericmac]

18 hours ago, RTRyan said:

Well, as I wrote, I'll have a beauty with a new heart and documented by a well know surgeon.  Ed, about the Pilot Rays.  Did any of your 30-32 Cadillac have them?  If so where was the switch or was the wiring added into the light switch in the steering wheel?    Here is an image from the 32 Cadillac accessory booklet with "my" car with the Pilot Rays.  Better look than on the 31s but just my opinion.  Thanks for any help

I happen to be in the minority here but I love Pilot Rays. I wish my 37 Cadillac looked good with them as I would have a pair on that car in a heartbeat. Yours looks great with them judging by the ad. I also really like the sporty blackwall look of the car in the advertisement. 

[John_Mereness]

I love Pilot Rays too - just the right amount of extra light and a Cadillac can handle the extra GLITZ.  That said - they are a super pain to restore and hopefully Dan Sommers goes back into production of them.

[RTRyan]

So what happens when your dream antique has a significant heart attack within the first 50 miles of fun?  The previous custodian said, "BP looked fine, did not know about Atherosclerosis."  Remember January 20 pictures?  Surgeons say, "Only good option is a transplant."  So it takes some time (did someone say "Covid") to find a donor and rebuild the pieces of the 90-year-old donor.  So almost two years later, here we are.  

So is the engine original?  The aluminum crankcase and stamped number are original.  Yes, the entire crankcase is aluminum.  Correct color, or just leave bare aluminum?   Same # as on the 1932 build sheet.  Was the "holy piston" seen above in December 2021 original?  Suspect so, as were block, head, cracks, and welds.  Would BaT call this heart transplant a "refurbishment" or "rebuild/restoration"?  Oh, wait until you see the young 90-year-old with its extra lights.  Pilot Rays help make the senior citizen look very sophisticated.  So did the custodian know a heart attack was imminent?  "The BP was okay,  I did not know about   Atherosclerosis.  Aren't all 90 years olds ready to run after resting under a blanket for 50 years? "  Hum.

I will fire up the new heart very soon and include the sound.  Did Abarth make an exhaust system for a 32 V-8?  Bet it would sound great.   More to come, including an answer to the Pilot Ray mystery

[RTRyan]

Whoops, forgot.  Isn't the refinished dash wood trim pretty also?