Joe in Canada Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said: A friend has a 1930 V16 roadster sitting as a basket case for well over 20 years now that I have mentioned before somewhere here. The motor is done and the body re wooded in paint. I did the frame for him many years ago and it has been suspended from the rafters over a very nice 60 Biarritz convertible I have not seen fired up in 30 years or more. Car is complete and then some with even new rear fenders from the RM metal beater. I was a little ticked about the fender as he came to my place to take a fender off one of my cars to copy, then dropped it off not putting it back on my car Being a basket case how is the market for these cars today. What vintage of cars become basket cases and what ones become part cars? It would be interesting to see this car piled into apple crates and skids and put through an RM auction to see what the response would be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalrace25 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 I think you'll be getting a lot of responses to this message. Most of them are going to ask where the car is and if it's for sale! But I think that there is a lot fewer people out there that are doing restorations or taking on a project like this. that is unless they're pockets are full and they're willing to send the car to a known restoration shop where the car can be put together and done and quality fine enough that it can be presented at some of the biggest Concours d'Elegance events. In other words someone with deep pockets and a big ego that wants to see their car up on the podium. Guys like me who just love the cars and want to see them active and driven have no chance to experience ownership or hands-on at this level of classic car ownership. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 The Cadillac having been re wooded and needing enough sheet metal that new fenders are required when finished would suffer a substantial hit to sales price. With true, correct, unmolested V-16 roadsters bringing well over seven figures, a basket case would need provenance and photos of the “before” as well as all original tags and engine numbers to even be considered as a potential “rebuilt” car. Any missing things from the list will drop the value by 70 percent. Obviously, if everything doesn’t match the factory build sheet, it’s a no go for 99.9 percent of collectors. Even if everything were perfectly documented, in today’s market, the car would struggle to find a buyer unless it was very inexpensive. I won’t post my number, but it would probably shock you. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ovalrace25 said: I think you'll be getting a lot of responses to this message. Most of them are going to ask where the car is and if it's for sale! But I think that there is a lot fewer people out there that are doing restorations or taking on a project like this. that is unless they're pockets are full and they're willing to send the car to a known restoration shop where the car can be put together and done and quality fine enough that it can be presented at some of the biggest Concours d'Elegance events. In other words someone with deep pockets and a big ego that wants to see their car up on the podium. Guys like me who just love the cars and want to see them active and driven have no chance to experience ownership or hands-on at this level of classic car ownership. Major collectors won’t collect cars that are basket cases.......add up the time, money, and “car with a story”, and they will just move on. There are a bunch of fakes, and body swap cars out there..........they don’t bring half the cost of restoration. That’s BEFORE you actually buy it. There are very few real, correct, unmolested 30-31 V-16 roadsters out there..........and even then, not everyone agrees on the numbers.......most accept 9, and a few others 12. The numbers on Sport Phaetons is agreed upon at 17 real ones.......of different pedigree.......which will also greatly effect value. While I like both cars, I prefer the phaetons........much easier to get in and out of, and one of the most comfortable cars for people over six feet tall that you can find in the era. Edited December 1, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalrace25 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 I have to agree with Ed. The roadsters may be more sporty, but I too am over 6 ft tall and personally prefer the sport phaeton. But the bottom line is, what the numbers are and the original build sheet that go with that set of numbers. Because Cadillac records are very well preserved and available, you've got to go by the numbers and prove that it's a real car so that you don't get into trouble when it's time to part with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I’m a minor collector and I won’t touch a basket case. Someone today asked me about a 540k basket case with rock solid provenance. The sellers have been trying to fish 7 figures for years now. I told him I thought there was no market for the car at almost any price. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 A basket case 540k is a 1.4 to 1.6 restoration........if you don’t run into problems. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I should add there is an unrestored Cad V-16 Roadster in the east that I have not seen, but understand is a complete and correct car......I have no idea as to condition, but would hazard a guess as a decent barn find. So there is competition in the way of sellers for a project car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 13 hours ago, Joe in Canada said: A friend has a 1930 V16 roadster sitting as a basket case for over 20 years now that I have mentioned before somewhere here. The motor is done and the body re wooded in paint. I did the frame for him many years ago and it has been suspended from the rafters over a very nice 60 Biarritz convertible I have not seen fired up in 30 years or more. Car is complete and then some with even new rear fenders from the RM metal beater. I was a little ticked about the fender as he came to my place to take a fender off one of my cars to copy, then dropped it off not putting it back on my car Being a basket case how is the market for these cars today. What vintage of cars become basket cases and what ones become part cars? It would be interesting to see this car piled into apple crates and skids and put through an RM auction to see what the response would be! interesting. I know of a guy in the states with a 60 Cadillac Seville and a v16 roadster. He restored the roadster himself over a long period of time and finished it in the last 10 years. Interesting to think of two guys with Essentially the same two cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 35 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said: interesting. I know of a guy in the states with a 60 Cadillac Seville and a v16 roadster. He restored the roadster himself over a long period of time and finished it in the last 10 years. Interesting to think of two guys with Essentially the same two cars. They made a bazillion V16s in 1930/31. And they are sort of like a Corvette. They didn't tend to get junked unless there was no choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 10 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said: interesting. I know of a guy in the states with a 60 Cadillac Seville and a v16 roadster. He restored the roadster himself over a long period of time and finished it in the last 10 years. Interesting to think of two guys with Essentially the same two cars. The car when new was sold as a roadster in the Boston area and my friend bought it in California when the restoration was stopped for some reason. The next time I go to visit him I will take some pictures of his barn finds. But with the pandemic it may not be until spring time. Should get these two guys together as Steve is also a hands on guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 There was an unrestored V-16 30/31 roadster in the New Orleans area since at least the 60’s, family may have restored it by now. As far as I know it’s still there. The family also had a V-16 sedan and tons of parts, including spare engines, collected over the years. Luckily the son has a good interest in the cars....which doesn’t always happen... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, trimacar said: Luckily the son has a good interest in the cars....which doesn’t always happen... My grand kids asked if I sold one of my old cars would there be enough money to buy a wake board boat. Right now the 14 year old is at Whistler for two weeks with his team practicing snow boarding. My old cars will hit the auction block real fast when I am gone. Edited December 2, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalrace25 Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said: My grand kids asked if I sold one of my old cars would there be enough money to buy a wake board boat. Right now the 14 year old is at Whistler for two weeks with his team practicing snow boarding. My old cars will hit the auction block real fast when I am gone. That right there should tell you what they think about your cars! when you kick the bucket you can bet that they're going to be letting them go real fast and buy some stupid stuff. May as well put the cars up for sale now and tell us what you got! HA! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Yes, sadly, I have a similar story. My eldest daughter was showing her boyfriend one of my cars, she asked value,and I told her, and it’s in the high five figures. . “That’s good to know, when you die and we sell it”..... Man, that hurt. I love my kids, but to be viewed as a cash flow at my demise really hurts. I know she loves me, we have a good tight family, but...crap... 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roysboystoys Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 I think this post must be approaching the record for most reply's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalrace25 Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, roysboystoys said: I think this post must be approaching the record for most reply's? Well the 1932 Cadillac that started all this got loaded into the transport and it's on its way to the east coast. If I could figure out how to add a picture to this comment I do so of it being put on the truck. Maybe when I'm out in the shop tomorrow I'll give it another try. But for now the Cadillac has left the building. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 The middle child is also for sale: https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6776-1932-cadillac-v12-convertible-coupe/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Not a fan of piles of "rough condition parts" that have been restored to 100 points - they have a tendency to have their flaws re-appear to some degree over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 On 12/4/2020 at 10:41 AM, Cadillac Fan said: The middle child is also for sale: https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6776-1932-cadillac-v12-convertible-coupe/ Not perfect, though is nevertheless appears a very nice car - would research its history prior to purchase as a double check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 hours ago, John_Mereness said: Not perfect, though is nevertheless appears a very nice car - would research its history prior to purchase as a double check. Yes, nice driver. Interesting to see that the V12 and V16 are rear mounted spares and the v8 has side mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 8 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said: Yes, nice driver. Interesting to see that the V12 and V16 are rear mounted spares and the v8 has side mounts. For aesthetics you'd think it would be the other way around, with the side mounts on the V12 & V16. Perhaps it's due to engine accessibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 I like it except for the bad mistake with the hood vents. Somebody that knows something should comment, but the V12 and the V8 are supposedly pretty much the same performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, George Cole said: For aesthetics you'd think it would be the other way around, with the side mounts on the V12 & V16. Perhaps it's due to engine accessibility? A double rear spare always trumps sidemounts on resale. For example, if we are talking 540k Mercedes, the dual rear spares on the back add about 500 to 700K to the price all other things equal. Single rear spare, depends who you ask or which car we are talking about. I happen to like the single spare on the Caddy, but I'm sure there are plenty of guys that would prefer the sidemounts. Edited December 6, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 5 hours ago, alsancle said: I like it except for the bad mistake with the hood vents. Somebody that knows something should comment, but the V12 and the V8 are supposedly pretty much the same performer. Would look pretty good with the hood vents painted, as well as the radiator and light housings. Ie, a similar look to the v16 roadster earlier in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 17 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said: Yes, nice driver. Interesting to see that the V12 and V16 are rear mounted spares and the v8 has side mounts. Rear spare or sidemounts are whatever was ordered (or in some cases car was built on spec without a purchaser) - has nothing to do with cylinders, wheelbase, or .... Keep in mind, sidemounts were extra cost, but for styling they were starting to move to more streamlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 57 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said: Would look pretty good with the hood vents painted, as well as the radiator and light housings. Ie, a similar look to the v16 roadster earlier in the thread. Chrome vents were an option. Painted radiator shell was very rare, though appears specified on a very few cars. Painted headlamps were even more rare and generally not seen on any more than a handfull of cars. Keep in mind that build sheets are available for these cars (and they are very detailed too as to how the car was to be built) - when you spend the big bucks you will want the build sheet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrow Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 The chrome hood vents were an available option in 1932. The rear spare poses a problem if you wish to tour as there is no place for a trunk rack and a trunk, plus the trunk behind the spare is small and difficult to get in to. Johnny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 On 12/6/2020 at 8:50 PM, jcrow said: plus the trunk behind the spare is small and difficult to get in to. Try and get into a trunk behind a trunk if you want to try difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 On 12/6/2020 at 6:39 AM, George Cole said: For aesthetics you'd think it would be the other way around, with the side mounts on the V12 & V16. Perhaps it's due to engine accessibility? It has to do with being a "Modern" car - stylists wanted the rear mount, metal spare tire covers, eventually hidden spare tires - roads and elegance dictated double spare tires in front fenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe in Canada said: Try and get into a trunk behind a trunk if you want to try difficult. Very few cars look good with trunk behind a trunk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 On 12/6/2020 at 8:50 PM, jcrow said: if you wish to tour as there is no place for a trunk rack and a trunk, plus the trunk behind the spare is small and difficult to get in to. Johnny Yep, I am a big fan of luggage racks and trunks for touring and almost a necessity if you do not trailer(ex. cars do not get much larger than the RR PI and I did not like stuff laying on the back floor, the tool box was just large enough to hold the tools, and the glove boxes while very nice where pretty small all things considered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 (edited) To me a trunk looks good behind a rumble seat or a trunk however the rear deck lid opens or a Victoria. Not all cars came with a rumble seat. Edited December 8, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 8 hours ago, Joe in Canada said: To me a trunk looks good behind a rumble seat or a trunk however the rear deck lid opens or a Victoria. Not all cars came with a rumble seat. My FAVORITE hotel in the world. Was just there in the fall for my wife's birthday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 We were there for a stop on the Glidden tour in 2016. CCCA was there for one of their Caravans that week also but we chose to go with VMCCA You really have to sit down and consider what the builders went through to get the large glass windows up that remote road. Just considering the conditions and equipment back then. The first Glidden was there in 1905 and check out the video on the road up there and the cars that did it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalrace25 Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 WELL FOLKS, I guess since it is sold and now with a very happy new caretaker, I should mark it sold-- BUT, How do I do that? I cant figure out out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 On 12/8/2020 at 8:13 AM, alsancle said: My FAVORITE hotel in the world. Was just there in the fall for my wife's birthday. Hard to believe I have owned it thirty two years....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Ovalrace25 said: WELL FOLKS, I guess since it is sold and now with a very happy new caretaker, I should mark it sold-- BUT, How do I do that? I cant figure out out! I think you can click on the 3 small dots in the upper right of your original post, and then select 'Edit.' That allows you to add 'Sold,' to the title, and change or delete the text or pictures. It doesn't let you delete the entire post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 9 hours ago, edinmass said: Hard to believe I have owned it thirty two years....... Then why don't I get to stay for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTRyan Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Well, I am the happy new/recent new owner of this car in the topic header. Is it still 1932 Cadillac convertible coupe? I have 3 grands for the rumble seat. They will remember the first drive. A few minor tune ups being done including a recoring of the radiator. A 1932 Cadillac which set in storage for 40+ years and needs the radiator recored? Outrageous. It is a beauty and now is happy to be on the east coast with working wind wipers. More questions to come and sources for parts. Great car and great history thanks to recent caregivers. Yes, just saw. My first post. I was recently a Jag guy. My 2013 CTS-V got me off Jags. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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